(Topic ID: 236862)

Help needed! Gottlieb Gladiators won’t boot


By jmountjoy111

3 months ago



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  • 41 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 33 days ago by Impzilla
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 months ago

I picked up this gladiators from a friend of mine locally that has had the machine for years. The game used to work as I played it at his home last year. The game was moved at some point by the previous owner and the head was taken off to move it. Upon reassembly he told me that he got two plugs crossed up on the boards. He said there was a huge puff of smoke when he powered it back up. He realized what plugs were crossed and put them back but the damage was obviously done. It burned the 20 pin ribbon cable connecting the driver to the cpu. I replaced the cable and am attaching pictures of what the game does when powered on.

Obviously there must be some serious board damage. I am pretty good at doing the repairs but am not very familiar with gottlieb at all and this will be the first system 3 I’ve had to repair. That being said I am needing some help on where to start. I do not have a manual for the machine so no schematics. I’d greatly appreciate some nudging in the right direction as I know most of you guys know way more than I do.

I am attaching some pics and can take any more that need to be taken. The plugs that were crossed were j1 on the power supply and p1 on the driver board.

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#2 3 months ago

Bump for the morning crowd. Anyone have any ideas of where to start?

#3 3 months ago

Ouch, many Gottlieb system3 die because of mixing up connectors.....

You can test the CPU board with a testrom. Send me a PM with your emailaddress and I will send you the binaries. I also have testroms for testing the MA1629 soundboard.

Marco

#4 3 months ago

Well that stinks. I don’t have any way to burn the ROM. Is there someone who sells them? What type of damage is typical? I know that connector that was mixed runs through the driver into the cpu. Does it usually just destroy both boards

I did find a rescue 911 manual in my box of manuals that has schematics

#5 3 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Well that stinks. I don’t have any way to burn the ROM. Is there someone who sells them? What type of damage is typical? I know that connector that was mixed runs through the driver into the cpu. Does it usually just destroy both boards
I did find a rescue 911 manual in my box of manuals that has schematics

That is good... you are going to need schematics. Its going to be difficult to remotely go through this whole thing, but you gotta start somewhere.

Unplug every connector in the backbox, and lets start from the beginning.

Plug in the connector in the bottom of the small power supply board. Take readings on the 5 volt output on the top of the small board... what does your 5 volt read?

#6 3 months ago

I unhooked every single connector from every board except the small power board. When I turn the machine on it does read 5v at any of the outputs on that board. It reads 0

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#7 3 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I unhooked every single connector from every board except the small power board. When I turn the machine on it does read 5v at any of the outputs on that board. It reads 0
[quoted image]

Okay, look at your schematics for that bottom connector on power supply board, what are your measurements on those pins? Pull off board to take measurements.

#8 3 months ago

I have 16.3 v to pins 1 and 5 and .25 me to pin 4. I checked it with the plug removed from the board. Here is the schematic from the rescue 911 manual.

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#9 3 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I have 16.3 v to pins 1 and 5 and .25 me to pin 4. I checked it with the plug removed from the board. Here is the schematic from the rescue 911 manual.
[quoted image]

Those voltages look okay... ohm out all the resistors and see that their readings match the schematics. Plug that lower connector back in, and try turning the adjustment pot... see if you can get the 5 volt output to move at all on the upper pins coming out.

#10 3 months ago
Quoted from ralphwiggum:

Those voltages look okay... ohm out all the resistors and see that their readings match the schematics. Plug that lower connector back in, and try turning the adjustment pot... see if you can get the 5 volt output to move at all on the upper pins coming out.

For some reason my meter only wanted to read in kilo ohms but it .387kohm for r1 and .216 kohm for r2. R3 is the pot itself and it read .414 kohm.

I adjusted the pot both directions and tested the pins at j2. They all read 0 vdc.

#11 89 days ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

For some reason my meter only wanted to read in kilo ohms but it .387kohm for r1 and .216 kohm for r2. R3 is the pot itself and it read .414 kohm.
I adjusted the pot both directions and tested the pins at j2. They all read 0 vdc.

Those all check out... at this point, it sounds like your lm33k may have gone south.

Do you get any output on pin 3 of that voltage regulator?
Are you using a ground strap as your grounding point for your meter?

#12 89 days ago

I have the ground clipped to the green and yellow ground coming from the cabinet. I added a pic to make sure it was in an ok position

Do I pull the power board to check that leg of the lm338k?

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#13 89 days ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I have the ground clipped to the green and yellow ground coming from the cabinet. I added a pic to make sure it was in an ok position
Do I pull the power board to check that leg of the lm338k?
[quoted image]

Yep... and your ground point is fine too....

#14 89 days ago

It reads 0 vdc so I guess that means order a new regulator?

#15 89 days ago

Yep... it appears that way. I have rebuilt 4 or 5 of them. Since you are replacing components, you might as well replace everything on that board. I think it will set you back about 11 bucks total.

#16 89 days ago
Quoted from ralphwiggum:

Yep... it appears that way. I have rebuilt 4 or 5 of them. Since you are replacing components, you might as well replace everything on that board. I think it will set you back about 11 bucks total.

Only other thing I would add.... make sure all your traces are good. Meter them all out. You have the right voltage going in, and nothing coming out. It would stink to order everything and find out you had a bad trace.

#17 89 days ago

Also, I built a Mouser project cart for this power supply a few years ago....

If you want to save some time
https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?State=EDIT&ProjectGUID=a77eb293-9073-483c-825c-8903b3b4d094

To note, I used a through hole lm338 instead of the can....

#18 89 days ago

Thanks for that. I will check the traces tomorrow and order the parts. I’ll rebuild the board and then post back when I’m done.

#19 89 days ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Thanks for that. I will check the traces tomorrow and order the parts. I’ll rebuild the board and then post back when I’m done.

No problem. It has been a few years, so I am not sure if everything in the project is still there. Also, disregard the quantity... I just order more than needed all the time from there.

1 week later
#20 79 days ago

So..... I am still waiting on the lm338k to come in. The tracking says Monday

#21 79 days ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

So..... I am still waiting on the lm338k to come in. The tracking says Monday

Yeah, those are getting a bit tougher to find at a decent price. Especially the can version that was original to this design.

1 week later
#22 67 days ago

So, after waiting for what seemed like forever… The voltage regulator finally came in. I rebuilt the power board and now have +5 VDC to every pin on J2. What do I do now?

#23 67 days ago

Nice... now plug in 5 volt connector to top of power supply, and only plug in the connecters/ribbon cable for just the cpu board and dmd driver board above it.

All the other connectors stay unplugged on the other boards.

System 3 DMD games only need the CPU and DMD to talk to each other to boot.

#24 67 days ago

I just want to make sure before I plug them in that these are the ones I need to plug in. I have the ribbon cable connecting the dmd controller and the mpu connected as well as the ribbon cable to the dmd from the controller. Do I plug in both p1 and p2 on top of the controller board and p1 on the mpu

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#25 67 days ago

Yep, you got it...

#26 67 days ago

I still get the line across the dmd. Led1 on the mpu flashes. Led1 on the dmd controller is locked.

#27 67 days ago

This sounds like classic U8 GAL malfunction, but to be sure- Go through your schematics and verify all three of those connectors you just plugged in have the proper voltages at each pin.

When the boards are working properly, they will alternate flashing when talking.

#28 67 days ago

Also, looking at your pics.... its hard to tell if a cap popped on you, but the left blue cap and the resistor above it look smoked...

#29 67 days ago

The voltage on p1 going into the mpu is correct. The voltage on the 5 and 12 pins on p1 into the controller are only reading mv so no where near 5. Maybe I’m checking it wrong

#30 67 days ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

The voltage on p1 going into the mpu is correct. The voltage on the 5 and 12 pins on p1 into the controller are only reading mv so no where near 5. Maybe I’m checking it wrong

Can you post a schematic for that connector? It has been awhile since I have had to bring a System 3 back from the dead.

#31 67 days ago

These are the ones I’m seeing. I’m not great at reading it but I tested pin 1 and 4 on p2 for +5 and +12 and it was mv

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#32 67 days ago

What does pin 9 on the bigger connector read? Also, pin 5?

#33 67 days ago

Pin 9 reads 5.

Pin 5 only reads 1.2

#34 67 days ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Pin 9 reads 5.
Pin 5 only reads 1.2

It sounds like you have some voltage issues not allowing that dmd controller to boot. My guess is you smoked the 20volt rectifier in the cabinet amongst other things. This 20 volt goes to the driver board and the dmd controller. (This is the one you are getting a 1.2 reading on)

Clay has a decent explanation here-
http://www.pinrepair.com/sys3/#ps

#35 67 days ago

Also in regards to the connectors on the dmd controller- the larger one (where I had you measure) is the connector providing voltage to the dmd controller. The smaller one provides voltages from the controller to the dmd itself.

Being that you have a solid line going through the dmd, i believe your high voltages are fine. The logic voltages are off right now. Your 5 volt is good, your 20volt isn't.

Does that make sense?

#36 67 days ago

Yes I think I get it.

So I probably need to go ahead and replace that bridge and the cap inside the cabinet?

I at least feel like I’m getting somewhere wth it. I am going to have shoulder surgery on Friday of this week which will put a bit of a delay in my going much further until it is healed.

#37 67 days ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Yes I think I get it.
So I probably need to go ahead and replace that bridge and the cap inside the cabinet?
I at least feel like I’m getting somewhere wth it. I am going to have shoulder surgery on Friday of this week which will put a bit of a delay in my going much further

Probably just the bridge. Instead of guessing though, you can test a bridge with your multimeter to verify functionality. These bridges are facing up, making them easy to measure.

Swapping the two connectors I think got swapped will do quite a bit of low voltage damage.

Too bad you arent closer, we could pop through it pretty quick.

The drivetrain on these System 3s are pretty straightforward, and I actually like System 3 schematics better than any of the others out there.

#38 67 days ago

I will test the bridge rectifier tomorrow as soon as I get home from work and post what I find. I really appreciate the help

#39 64 days ago

I got swamped the last two days trying to get things lined out at work for me to miss tomorrow for surgery on my shoulder. I am not going to get to check this bridge till after I heal up a bit. Hopefully it won’t be too long. I really do appreciate the help

#40 64 days ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I got swamped the last two days trying to get things lined out at work for me to miss tomorrow for surgery on my shoulder. I am not going to get to check this bridge till after I heal up a bit. Hopefully it won’t be too long. I really do appreciate the help

No problem.... good luck with surgery, don't over-do it.

1 month later
#41 33 days ago

Machine update:
I have purchased this project machine from Jmountjoy111 - great seller.

The system is setup as before, all plugs removed except lower power input but now the +5 out is gone again.
Checking the three bridge rectifiers I saw some things I do not think are good.

12v bridge has 7vac in with 12dc out. My schematic shows 10vac in with 12vdc out
20v bridge has 11vac in with 76vdc out. My schematic shows 16vac in with 20vdc out.
48v bridge has 32vac in with 66vdc out. My schematic shows 51vac in with 48vdc out.
For the input voltage I read off the corresponding fuse.

Maybe transformer damage? Any process to check it?
This unit was moved and the head was removed and reassembled, maybe I missed something - Ideas?

Thanks for any suggestions.

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