(Topic ID: 201042)

Gottlieb Free Fall Score Wheel Help


By brightonrock

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 29 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by ajfclark
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Screenshot from 2017-10-27 07-54-06 (resized).png
Screenshot from 2017-10-26 22-12-39 (resized).png
gtbsch5 (resized).jpg
20171023_191105 (resized).jpg

#1 2 years ago

The 10's wheel in my Gottlieb Free Fall I think has a broken switch. This switch is normally closed on the other wheels and opens every time the wheel rotates one digit. Can someone confirm this is broken and if so what part number is a good replacement. See picture

2nd problem (or the main one which lead to me finding the possible broken switch) is that the wheel gets stuck at 0. I have uploaded a video...I did try manually putting a jumper in and out to simulate the broken switch working, but it seemed to have the same problem.

20171023_191105 (resized).jpg

#2 2 years ago

Hard to tell what is going on with the switch from that pic.

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Hard to tell what is going on with the switch from that pic.

Yeah, but good chance the longer switch is broke. I've had to replace
many on the Gottlieb score reels..
That set of contacts should be closed, and open when the score reel
coil is in the energized position..

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from Mopar:

Yeah, but good chance the longer switch is broke. I've had to replace
many on the Gottlieb score reels..
That set of contacts should be closed, and open when the score reel
coil is in the energized position..

Ok, I will replace the longer switch that is broken. I just wanted to make sure all wheels (10,100,1000) need that switch. This is my only EM game, so I had nothing to compare it to.

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from Mopar:

Yeah, but good chance the longer switch is broke. I've had to replace
many on the Gottlieb score reels..
That set of contacts should be closed, and open when the score reel
coil is in the energized position..

What is the purpose of that switch? I works exactly how you say.

ALSO

Does anybody have the part number of that switch? I don't have the Gottlieb parts book from that year.

Thanks

#6 2 years ago

That switch breaks the circuit to the 10s Relay once
the 10s score reel is energized.
If you e-mail me direct and give me your address,
I'll send a couple switches that'll work..
timnewarkny@gmail.com

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from brightonrock:

Does anybody have the part number of that switch?

Nice that Mopar is going to send you some. And the switches come apart so good to have some spare parts.
http://www.pbresource.com/pfswitch.htm#common

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from Mopar:

That switch breaks the circuit to the 10s Relay once
the 10s score reel is energized.
If you e-mail me direct and give me your address,
I'll send a couple switches that'll work..
timnewarkny@gmail.com

Thanks for the kind offer. I live in Canada so shipping always sucks. Pinball Resource offered a substitute switch which I will pick up as I need other parts anyway.

Any idea on the wheel getting stuck in the video? Do I need to replace the springs? PB Resource has spring kits.

#9 2 years ago

I think the reel always got stuck on "0" in the
video. I figured you were tapping the Reset Relay
and if so, "0" is were it should stop..
Once you replace that contact, we'll see how
things function..

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from Mopar:

I think the reel always got stuck on "0" in the
video. I figured you were tapping the Reset Relay
and if so, "0" is were it should stop..
Once you replace that contact, we'll see how
things function..

I was just tapping a target on the play field that awarded 10 points. Once it gets to 9, I continue tapping, but it gets stuck until I manually force it to 1.

#11 2 years ago

Oh, I'm a little surprised the reel energized that way..
We'll see what happens after you get that one broken
contact blade fixed. If there's still problems, maybe someone
with a Free Fall set up can help out, or/and I should
have a Free Fall's schematics..

#12 2 years ago

There is a little more effort required to rotate the reel to 9 due to the way the carry or runout switch works. When it goes from 8 to 9 the runout switch gets closed by a ramp in the reel. If there is any dirt or old grease, it can stick the reel. If it doesn't advance completely to 9, it won't advance to zero. There is also a fragile metal spring in the reel unit to prevent backspin, this needs to be adjusted properly. Taking the reel off and cleaning it isn't all that difficult.

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from brightonrock:

I was just tapping a target on the play field that awarded 10 points.

I forgot to ask. When the score reel stops, but you're still tapping,
does the 10 point relay stop energizing?

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from brightonrock:

The 10's wheel in my Gottlieb Free Fall I think has a broken switch. This switch is normally closed on the other wheels and opens every time the wheel rotates one digit. Can someone confirm this is broken and if so what part number is a good replacement.

That's the reel EOS switch, I think the part # is B-10801. They are not 100% necessary. I have two in my sky jump with broken EOS switches.

Quoted from brightonrock:

2nd problem (or the main one which lead to me finding the possible broken switch) is that the wheel gets stuck at 0. I have uploaded a video...I did try manually putting a jumper in and out to simulate the broken switch working, but it seemed to have the same problem.

If you watch the switches, at a few points during the rotation, there's far more pressure from the switches holding back the rotation. If it's sticking at one of those points (usually 9), it's likely that the return spring has given up the ghost or everything has just gummed up so much it doesn't move freely anymore. If you manually operate the plunger and the unit feels stiff, it's probably the latter. Pull the unit apart, clean the goo from behind the metal plate that drive the reel, reassemble. If it moves freely but doesn't have enough oomph to push the switches, the spring is more likely. You can cheat, pull the unit apart, shorten the return spring a few loops and put it back together.

It's a bit odd that it's sticking 0-1 though. That does push the switches out, but not as far as the 8-9 step. I'd check the shape of the wireform and the inner edge of the reel that pushes the wireform.

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from Mopar:

I forgot to ask. When the score reel stops, but you're still tapping,
does the 10 point relay stop energizing?

It was getting held in.

I did what ajfclark suggested and cleaned the whole unit. It works fine now (even without the switch). The only problem now is upon a reset the game continues to fire the step unit and the 10's does not get to 0. If I force it to zero, the game rests and plays fine. I have to check the switch is being made properly tonight.

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from brightonrock:

upon a reset the game continues to fire the step unit and the 10's does not get to 0. If I force it to zero, the game rests and plays fine. I have to check the switch is being made properly tonight.

If the solenoid is firing on a score reel but that reel isn't moving, check its mechanical operation.

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from brightonrock:

It was getting held in.
I did what ajfclark suggested and cleaned the whole unit. It works fine now (even without the switch). The only problem now is upon a reset the game continues to fire the step unit and the 10's does not get to 0. If I force it to zero, the game rests and plays fine. I have to check the switch is being made properly tonight.

So during play it can step 9-0?

If you can, see what's causing the resistance to turning. There's only a few things going on specifically at the 9-0 transition, mostly at either end of the wireform that opens and closes the runout, reset and 9th pos switches. Is that wireform in the correct place in the switch stack? It's not getting hung up on the inner edge of the reel somehow?

#18 2 years ago
Quoted from brightonrock:

It works fine now (even without the switch).

Okay, with that switch broken (On add 10s switch), the 10s Relay is pulsing, but not
holding in as it should be. I go through a machine and fix all that is needed before plugging
in so I'm not sure how often it would malfunction without that switch..

Quoted from brightonrock:The only problem now is upon a reset the game continues to fire the step unit and the 10's does not get to 0.

Here you need to check the runout switch in the 10s unit. It should be closed 1-9
and open only when on 0. Make sure that it's making good contact until it reaches
zero. Also, it's a good idea to go through all score reels (and everything else) even
if they presently seem to be working properly..

#19 2 years ago

I cleaned all the wheels and added the missing EOT switch on the 10's. The cleaning fixed the wheel getting stuck at 9. The last problem (hopefully) I have with the game is the reset sequence. I'm not sure if it was doing this before, but now it does it all the time. The 10's score wheel will not stop on zero. When the zero switch is made it fires the coil and skips to 1. The game does reset, but it stops on random numbers on the 10s. During game play, it will never stop on 0. If the wheel is on 5 and I score 5, it will skip around to 1 (adding 6). The video shows even if I manually fire the coil, the wheel will skip over 0.

Please see video

#20 2 years ago

Because it works properly for all other numbers, you'd think the
round plastic gear is positioned properly, but has to be that, or
something with the score reel itself..

#21 2 years ago

At the very end of your video (0:30) you show the zero / nine run out switches. It appears that you have the two center/longer blades resting on each other. They are supposed to be separated by one of the metal wireforms with the black heat shrink on them so they don't short together.

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

At the very end of your video (0:30) you show the zero / nine run out switches. It appears that you have the two center/longer blades resting on each other. They are supposed to be separated by one of the metal wireforms with the black heat shrink on them so they don't short together.

Yep, that was it. The wireform was out of place!

Thanks for you help!

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from brightonrock:

Yep, that was it. The wireform was out of place!
Thanks for you help!

Great!

This is a second time where a video led right to the cause. Such a valuable tool for internet assistance.

If a picture is worth a 1000 words. What's a Video worth?

#24 2 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

It appears that you have the two center/longer blades resting on each other.

Okay, good catch!
So all is working O.K.?
I have/had Free Falls, but never set one up.
Let us know how you like its game play..

#25 2 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

you have the two center/longer blades resting on each other. They are supposed to be separated by one of the metal wireforms with the black heat shrink on them so they don't short together.

I don't see it. Can you post a screenshot with an arrow pointing at what you saw?

#26 2 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

I don't see it. Can you post a screenshot with an arrow pointing at what you saw?

Sorry. I don't know how to do that.

Here is a close up of them in a photo from Clay's pinrepair.com website under section 2 part G. This is what they should look like. In the video, it appeared to me that the two arrow Head blades are resting on each other and not electrically isolated by the rubber coated wireforms.

gtbsch5 (resized).jpg

#27 2 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

I don't see it. Can you post a screenshot with an arrow pointing at what you saw?

Compare this with the picture above.
Screenshot from 2017-10-26 22-12-39 (resized).png

#28 2 years ago

Thanks, @ajfdark. Amazing catch, CactusJack.

#29 2 years ago

I just checked your original video. It was out of place there too:
Screenshot from 2017-10-27 07-54-06 (resized).png

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