(Topic ID: 302074)

Gottlieb Flipper Parade problem

By S_Ruggeri

2 years ago


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  • 11 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by eyeamred2u
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Add balls solenoid at rest (resized).JPG
Add balls solenoid activated (resized).JPG
Stepper at game over (resized).JPG
Stepper on ball 1 (resized).JPG
overview of ball count unit (resized).JPG
pasted_image (resized).png
Flipper Parade schematics 2 (resized).JPG
Flipper Parade schematics 1 (resized).JPG
#1 2 years ago

Hi everyone,
I've been running through my Flipper Parade: new rubbers, cleaned and polished playfield, cleaned the switch stacks, rebuilt the steppers, really, you name it and I probably did it.
And Lo! much to my delight (and amazement) it worked perfectly. The rototarget rotated, the stepper stepped, balls were added, cannons fired, knockers knocked, and points were scored..
For a few weeks.
My girlfriend was playing the game, and as per usual was wringing it's neck, when the playfield lights flickered and died. "That's not much fun" says she, and sashays off to abuse the Galaxy instead..
I check the playfield fuse and the fuse is fine. After much removing of wing nuts and screws I lift the playfield, I jumped a few wires to see if the lights could be coaxed back to life but no. I then thought that maybe one of the tilt switches was at fault (I didn't clean those before did I), and hey presto, life was restored to the lights.
I restarted the game with the playfield up just to make sure all was well and it was at this point that all hell broke loose.
After resetting the ball count unit and score reels the add balls solenoid stuck on at 1 and made the most awful racket you've ever heard. I could see that the score motor was stuck so I turned it manually and it cycled though to to the 5th ball. I later learned that lifting the switch stack at position 2C would allow the score motor to cycle through the sequence.
This was already bad enough but then I found that even though the game had nominally reset none of the playfield solenoids could be made to work properly: the impulse was there, but was way too weak to make anything happen. This applied to the rototaget, the pop bumpers, the flippers, and to all the latch relays for the add a ball sequence, and most of the time when I tried to make something happen the knocker would go off. The only coils on the playfield the seemed completely unaffected were the ones that light the pop bumpers and the one that releases the ball in the trough.
On the other hand if I tried to work the add balls solenoid off the score reels (to win on points) it would work just fine.
My brain stated to evaporate.
After a (very) long time making absoulutely no sense of what was going on, checking switches that have aready been checked, cleaning Jones plugs that have already been cleaned and looking for bits of stray wire that aren't there, I pulled the plug on the knocker because I couldn't stand the sound of it going off any more (and to think that it's usually what you want to hear), and then went back to actuating things.
Nothing worked any more..
Zilch, Zippo, Nada de nada.
Every single thing that's actuated by a solenoid on the playfield was dead. Only the rollovers and scoring switches worked. The 5 and 50 point functions would work as long as I turned the score motor by hand because that's dead as well.
How can this possibly be?
On the other hand the playfield lights are just fine...
At this point my brain is emitting wisps of smoke and I'm fearing for my sanity.
I have absolutely no idea what is going on.
Can anybody help?

#2 2 years ago

Circuit diagram? There is a contact on the ball count stepper that closes to juice the pf. you may have arched that one real good. And be aware of the floating contact pad. The little pads can become electrically isolated from the blade they sit on, you can usually spot them with a black ring around them. (crushing them with needlenose sometimes fixes, but from what you suggest you may need to replace with new blades/pads)

with an alligator jumper jump around the contact on the ball stepper (heavy red-white wire etc) and then jump around the pf jones plug etc.

I usually take a jumper to the drop side of the 24v fuse and move it along the right hand vertical line of the diagram..

#3 2 years ago

Hi, thanks for getting to me so quickly, it's much appreciated.
No, the switch blades on the ball count stepper are all fine, no arching. One of the many things that's doing my head in is that the stepper will add balls just fine on points, so I can't see there being any problem with the unit itself. It seems logical that this can also be said for the contact board on the stepper unit because if it was sending the machine into meltdown mode on the first ball on the way up then surely it would do the very same thing on it's way down.
What really gets me though is that with the jones plug to the knocker removed everyhing on the playfield is isolated, including the score motor.
With any luck I'll manage to upload the schematics.
Thanks again,
Stef

Flipper Parade schematics 1 (resized).JPGFlipper Parade schematics 1 (resized).JPGFlipper Parade schematics 2 (resized).JPGFlipper Parade schematics 2 (resized).JPG
#4 2 years ago

I'm having trouble following all the symptoms so let's start with something simple.

If you close its Motor 1C switch (red-white wire to black-yellow wire) the score motor should run to its next index position regardless of the state of the game. Does it do that? You should even be able to remove the playfield and backbox jones plugs to simplify things and the score motor should still work when 1C is closed. Similarly the R relay should always be on when the game is on. Is it?

Also, is the zero position switch on the Ball Count unit that pinhead52 referred to a wiper on the contact board or a separate switch activated by a pin on the gear?

/Mark

#5 2 years ago

3 contacts drive power to the pf. the balls to play unit should be contacts on the back side open/closed by a post, you have to lay the unit down to eyeball these contact

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

#6 2 years ago

Hi Mark,
With all the jones plugs connected the inner switch at 1C when closed does turn the score motor to the next index position.
With the playfield jones plug disconnected the switch at 1C again turns the score motor
With the backbox plugs disconnected nothing happens whatsoever
The wires that go to the contacts on the R relay have been soldered together
I've uploaded a few pictures of the Ball Count Unit showing when it is at game over position and at 1st ball, plus another couple of pictures that show the contacts under the add balls solenoid lever when activated and at rest
I know I'm useless at explaining myself, I've been restoring cars since I was in my early twenties but I still find it incredibly hard to get my head around schematics...
Thanks again for your help,
Stef

overview of ball count unit (resized).JPGoverview of ball count unit (resized).JPGStepper on ball 1 (resized).JPGStepper on ball 1 (resized).JPGStepper at game over (resized).JPGStepper at game over (resized).JPGAdd balls solenoid activated (resized).JPGAdd balls solenoid activated (resized).JPGAdd balls solenoid at rest (resized).JPGAdd balls solenoid at rest (resized).JPG

#7 2 years ago

I love this game. Have to get every switch and relay back to their home state according to that schematic. It seems like a big task, but it is really easy once you do a little homework on understanding what the symbols mean on that schematic. You always have to start at Home or when the machine is plugged in you hit the button to start and this is when the machine wants to Reset itself to Zero.

My game had issues in the lower cabinet. Not the score motor but with main carriage bank being out of alignment. You can lift it up and if it is not set back down correctly things will not work properly.

#8 2 years ago

Hi,
Yup, the issue with the reset bank has happened to me in the past as well. Those pesky wingnuts sometimes seem to have a mind of their own. On my machine a major problem was the appalling quality of some of the soldering - not something I'd come to expect from Gottlieb.
I think it's a fun game too, and like most Gottliebs there are those rare magical times when you can really get a rhythm going: I always get a kick when I manage to get those 100 point rollovers on the way up and then again on the way down.
It's always been my girfriend's favourite but now I fear that the Galaxie might be her new darling...
As for the schematic, well, I'm sort of ok with it if I'm trying to figure out something specific that I know for sure is wrong, but in this case the net is cast so wide that I'm sort of flailing, it's like turning on the hot water tap and getting music coming out- I mean, where do you even start?

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from S_Ruggeri:

Hi,
Yup, the issue with the reset bank has happened to me in the past as well. Those pesky wingnuts sometimes seem to have a mind of their own. On my machine a major problem was the appalling quality of some of the soldering - not something I'd come to expect from Gottlieb.
I think it's a fun game too, and like most Gottliebs there are those rare magical times when you can really get a rhythm going: I always get a kick when I manage to get those 100 point rollovers on the way up and then again on the way down.
It's always been my girfriend's favourite but now I fear that the Galaxie might be her new darling...
As for the schematic, well, I'm sort of ok with it if I'm trying to figure out something specific that I know for sure is wrong, but in this case the net is cast so wide that I'm sort of flailing, it's like turning on the hot water tap and getting music coming out- I mean, where do you even start?

You know where to start! At the beginning!

#10 2 years ago

got me there...

#11 2 years ago

U need to figure out why it is not returning everything back to all zeros. Do you have contacts melted together? If the game was working, something happened like a pair of contacts fused together or wire broke off. Why is the game trying to run continuously and at what point? Then look at the schematic find that point.

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