(Topic ID: 108348)

Gottlieb flip a card special knocker credit question

By Wickerman2

7 years ago


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  • 28 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by ChrisHibler
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FLIP 003.JPG
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FLIPACARD 001.JPG

#1 7 years ago

Getting a flip a card running, have everything working pretty much except special. When the special lights and the rollovers light up and you hit them no knocker, no points nothing. Cleaned W relay. If i manually close the switch on replay unit knocker will sound. Game is apparently on free play and credit unit doesnt move. So, how do i get special to knock and score if its supposed to while set to free play?

#2 7 years ago

You've noted that the credit reel doesn't move, but does the step up coil fire?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#3 7 years ago

Make sure the max credit switch is not mangled on the credit unit

#4 7 years ago

No coil movement on credit wheel as far as I can tell

#5 7 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

No coil movement on credit wheel as far as I can tell

So...that's a place to start.
Manually set the reel to, say 6, and retest.
This should close the "credits not at max" switch, allowing addition of another credit.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#6 7 years ago

Here are some pics:

FLIPACARD 001.JPGFLIPACARD 002.JPGFLIPACARD 003.JPGFLIPACARD 004.JPGFLIPACARD 005.JPG

#7 7 years ago

Really need to see the schematics to help more.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#8 7 years ago

Changed credit wheel position and it wouldn't start at all(!?). Put credit wheel back as seen in pics and it starts. I've got the schematicsFLIP 001.JPGFLIP 002.JPGFLIP 003.JPG

#9 7 years ago

That top switch on the stack is open, which will prevent any credits from being added.

The return spring is wrapped around the post; looks like the cam has been messed with and things are out of whack. Compare to a second game if you have one (I'll see what pics I've got of a correct one).

So at least two issues with that credit unit as it sits.

#10 7 years ago

Here's one I found of a credit unit in the zero position. The return spring should not impede the motion of the posts as it advances to the max credit position.

2013Dec24 022.JPG

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

That top switch on the stack is open, which will prevent any credits from being added.
The return spring is wrapped around the post; looks like the cam has been messed with and things are out of whack. Compare to a second game if you have one (I'll see what pics I've got of a correct one).
So at least two issues with that credit unit as it sits.

Thanks again for the info. That explains why the unit didn't turn that easy! I'll try and tackle the spring later today or tomorrow. So top switch should be closed in zero position? I assume it'd be best to unscrew unit/pull away from game to work on that spring?

#12 7 years ago

I think some of the confusion is when your credit wheel is in reset “0” credit position it does not show “0” in the credit box so you might think there are credits when there is not. Your pictures show the max credit switch open but I can still see your credit wheel max of “15” when your unit is at max “15” should be displayed in the credits on the backglass.

So here is what I would suggest,
1. Get the credit unit into the reset position.
2. Correct the alignment of the credit wheel to show “0” in the backglass.
3. Manually step/reset the unit and adjust the switches if need be.

I think once you do that until you close the minimum credit switch for free play anything above “0” for credits will start a game. I also attached one of your pictures that shows the max credit switch open and the reflection of the credit wheel so you can understand what I am saying.

Hope this helps.

312992-i.jpg

#13 7 years ago
Quoted from burnt_finger:

I think some of the confusion is when your credit wheel is in reset “0” credit position it does not show “0” in the credit box so you might think there are credits when there is not. Your pictures show the max credit switch open but I can still see your credit wheel max of “15” when your unit is at max “15” should be displayed in the credits on the backglass.
So here is what I would suggest,
1. Get the credit unit into the reset position.
2. Correct the alignment of the credit wheel to show “0” in the backglass.
3. Manually step/reset the unit and adjust the switches if need be.
I think once you do that until you close the minimum credit switch for free play anything above “0” for credits will start a game. I also attached one of your pictures that shows the max credit switch open and the reflection of the credit wheel so you can understand what I am saying.
Hope this helps.

312992-i.jpg 46 KB

Great info. Thanks for labeling the picture. I think I've got a clear idea of where things should be now. I'll try and get them in the correct position after I figure out how to get the spring back in order as well.

#14 7 years ago

Here's a better picture I was able to take. This is in the zero position. Note how the bottom two switches are open, and the top switch is closed. And also that the return spring base is behind the two cam posts, out of the way.

Gottlieb Credit Unit - Zero position

#15 7 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Thanks again for the info. That explains why the unit didn't turn that easy! I'll try and tackle the spring later today or tomorrow. So top switch should be closed in zero position? I assume it'd be best to unscrew unit/pull away from game to work on that spring?

It's probably not just the spring, but the whole cam looks like it's maybe 180 degrees out of alignment. The post that normally lifts the switch stack in the zero position is now opening the max credit switch. Perhaps the cam got loose and flipped around.

Personally, I find it easier to take the unit out of the game and rebuild it.

#16 7 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

It's probably not just the spring, but the whole cam looks like it's maybe 180 degrees out of alignment. The post that normally lifts the switch stack in the zero position is now opening the max credit switch. Perhaps the cam got loose and flipped around.
Personally, I find it easier to take the unit out of the game and rebuild it.

Good eyes you are correct it is 180 off.

#17 7 years ago

The post was in the wrong hole.!..? Rotated it and realized there was no way to make it look right with the post where it was...switched holes to make it look like your pic and it works. Tried out the special and knocker works. The bakelite/fiber board piece broke in the process but doesn't appear to be an essential component. Now, can I jumper this somehow to get free play and still keep the special or is that one or the other?

#18 7 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

The post was in the wrong hole.!..? Rotated it and realized there was no way to make it look right with the post where it was...switched holes to make it look like your pic and it works. Tried out the special and knocker works. The bakelite/fiber board piece broke in the process but doesn't appear to be an essential component. Now, can I jumper this somehow to get free play and still keep the special or is that one or the other?

Great!!

Adjust the middle switch closed and all should be good, the replay/special will work fine until you reach the max credit switch then it shuts off.

image-289.png
#19 7 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

The post was in the wrong hole.!..? Rotated it and realized there was no way to make it look right with the post where it was...switched holes to make it look like your pic and it works. Tried out the special and knocker works. The bakelite/fiber board piece broke in the process but doesn't appear to be an essential component. Now, can I jumper this somehow to get free play and still keep the special or is that one or the other?

What was that even doing there in the first place? That piece of bakelite shouldn't be there.

Someone really hacked away on that replay unit.

#20 7 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

What was that even doing there in the first place? That piece of bakelite shouldn't be there.
Someone really hacked away on that replay unit.

Actually it should be there. It's just missing in the one I pictured (also broken off). It's there to separate the max credit switch from the middle switch, since they flex towards each other. They don't typically touch though, so not a big deal.

#21 7 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Actually it should be there. It's just missing in the one I pictured (also broken off). It's there to separate the max credit switch from the middle switch, since they flex towards each other. They don't typically touch though, so not a big deal.

I've never seen a piece of bakelite doing that job though. Fish paper, yes. Bakelite, no.

#22 7 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

I've never seen a piece of bakelite doing that job though. Fish paper, yes. Bakelite, no.

I'm not sure when they switched over, but sometime between Atlantis and Jungle Queen they went from the Bakelite spacer to a piece of metal with fish paper on the top side. I'd guess maybe after they reverted to the classic credit unit after giving the half-moon credit unit a try. So maybe with the '76 titles.

But prior to the switch to the metal spacer, the credit units all have that Bakelite spacer in the switch stack. They are often broken though (which is probably why they switched to metal).

Here are pics of an unbroken one from Atlantis, and a metal one in Jungle Queen (two that I have on hand).

Atlantis with Bakelite spacer
Jungle Queen with metal spacer+fishpaper

#23 7 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

I'm not sure when they switched over, but sometime between Atlantis and Jungle Queen they went from the Bakelite spacer to a piece of metal with fish paper on the top side. I'd guess maybe after they reverted to the classic credit unit after giving the half-moon credit unit a try. So maybe with the '76 titles.
But prior to the switch to the metal spacer, the credit units all have that Bakelite spacer in the switch stack. They are often broken though (which is probably why they switched to metal).
Here are pics of an unbroken one from Atlantis, and a metal one in Jungle Queen (two that I have on hand).
Atlantis with Bakelite spacer
Jungle Queen with metal spacer+fishpaper

Well, maybe it's there and I never noticed. I only have two wedgeheads right now, both pre Atlantis, so I'll have to look. It just looked really weird to me and I wondered where in the world that came from, because I just don't remember seeing it.

GtbCreditSpacer0.JPG 448 KB

GtbCreditSpacer1.JPG 439 KB

#24 7 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

I'm not sure when they switched over, but sometime between Atlantis and Jungle Queen they went from the Bakelite spacer to a piece of metal with fish paper on the top side. I'd guess maybe after they reverted to the classic credit unit after giving the half-moon credit unit a try. So maybe with the '76 titles.

I think your problem is that your credit units are too clean and shiny

#25 7 years ago

Nice pics Dirt!
I've seen a few of the Bakelite dividers broken. I know I replaced one with a makeshift piece I fashioned from an old flipper link.

Mind if I add those two pics to the PinWiki?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#26 7 years ago

I had an old flipper link out and ready to go when I realized it worked without it.

#27 7 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Mind if I add those two pics to the PinWiki?

Nope, go right ahead.

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