(Topic ID: 31437)

Gottlieb EM repair help - Ball won't eject

By NoCashValue

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 12 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 40 days ago by ChrisHibler
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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#1 9 years ago

Having a frustrating time with my '76 Gottlieb Royal Flush. It was working fine...but then I moved to a new house. Ugh. So anyway, here's what happens now:

1. I press start
2. Score reels reset, score motor finishes it's cycle
3. Backglass shows ball 1
4. NOTHING. - ball does not kick out.

It's interesting to note that if I manually push the ball into the shooter lane, I can play just fine (i.e. the pops work, the score reels work, the drops work). when I drain, it even scores the bonus. However, it will NEVER kick the ball out. I can push it back into the shooter lane and it will register ball2, but again - once it drains the ball will not kick back out.

I've already replaced the kickout coil, so I know that can't be the problem. Any ideas? Thanks!

#2 9 years ago

this happen more then you would think
try cleaning/ re adjusting the outhole SW first
then manually activate the out hole SW on the lower relay board look for the tell tale sign of the big blue spark - if so clean re adj
good luck

#3 9 years ago

So...you are saying that a ball that drains scores the bonus. This proves that the outhole switch is making.

But, the ball is never served to the shooter lane either at game start or after scoring the bonus.

Does the score motor continue to run?

Do you have the schematics and are you comfortable reading them?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#4 9 years ago

Yes. Switch is making in order to score the bonus. There's something in the startup sequence that isn't engaging the ball return relay (O). When I manually depress the relay, the outhole kicker will fire. Startup sequence in the manual says that it may be something in the Player unit in the backbox, but everything seems to be adjusted fine. I do have the manual and schematics, but I'm not the best at reading schematics yet. I'm going to break out the multimeter and make sure the switches are actually making contact...

This one is a head-scratcher.

#5 9 years ago

Oops. I see from you original post that the score motor stops.
Try this. Remove the ball (so it doesn't crash down on your plastics).
Start a game.
Raise the PF to the upright position.
Find the O relay (ball return relay) on the bottom board.
Manually actuate it.
Does the score motor turn and the outhole coil fire?
I bet it will...

Next...
We've proven that the outhole coil (curiosly called the ball return coil in this game) is good.
But, the ball return relay isn't firing.
First let's verify that the ball return relay coil is good.
You need a jumper wire, about 3 feet long, preferably with alligator clips on both ends.
Clip one end of your jumper to the solder lug on the bounce switch (located on the bottom board) that has a red-white wire soldered to it. This is always a good place to pick up the "hot" side of power.
Briefly touch the coil lug of the O relay that has a yellow-black wire soldered to it with the other end of your jumper wire.
The coil should fire. If not, it's dead.

Assuming it did...
Find the normally open switch on the O relay that has maroon-green and and white-orange wires leading to it.
Briefly touch the loose jumper wire end to the white-orange lug.
The coil should fire.
If not, examine the NC switches on Q (yellow-black and slate-black) and on AX (slate-black and white-orange). One of these normally closed switches isn't making.

If the coil does fire...
Touch the loose jumper to the brown-white wire on the outhole switch.
If the coil doesn't fire, examine the make/break switch on A with center wire brown-white and flanking wires of white-orange and green-white. It should be making on the white-orange side.

Make sense?
Have you been able to follow along with the schematics?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#6 9 years ago

Wow, Chris...you're good! Turns out it was a switch on Q. Ball kicks out just right everytime. HOWEVER....

Now I have a new problem. The game won't end. I can play 3 balls and when I drain, the score motor just spins. If I turn it off and turn it back on, it's still spinning. Here's what's interesting though: If I press start while it's spinning, it starts a new game and the score motor stops. I can play through 3 balls just fine without issue and then it starts back when the 3rd ball drains and the game doesn't end. Any ideas?

Thanks!

#7 9 years ago
Quoted from NoCashValue:

Now I have a new problem. The game won't end. I can play 3 balls and when I drain, the score motor just spins. If I turn it off and turn it back on, it's still spinning. Here's what's interesting though: If I press start while it's spinning, it starts a new game and the score motor stops. I can play through 3 balls just fine without issue and then it starts back when the 3rd ball drains and the game doesn't end. Any ideas?

Check the last ball relay I had the same problem on my Royal Flush Aka the BX relay

#8 9 years ago

You're right - the problem does lie with the BX relay. However, I'm not sure how to fix it. I thought I would be able to flexstone some contacts or adjust switch gaps, but I don't think that's the problem.

As you know, there are two small coils on the BX relay. Well, the problem lies in the fact that one coil keeps firing to pull in the switch stack. Unfortunately, the other coil never fires to release the latch lock. If I release the lock manually, the game ends just fine and the score motor stops. Not sure what's causing the top coil to keep trying to pull in the switches rather than release them.

Any suggestions? Thanks for all the help so far! I'm sooo close.

#9 9 years ago

Yes, I had the same thing after some research I found this >>> Gottlieb Ax/Bx Latch Relay Adjustment. << look for that here >> http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#reset <<
^^^^^movie^^^^^
Plus this is in there too.>> Movie Explaining Gottlieb Multiplayer Ax and Reset bank Setups
Basically it is setting it up so it locks in w/ease (w/BX info)so the game ends properly.(I believe i stretched the relays spring or the contact the pull that coil in was a closer gap to fix it?)

If you have a meter to check the ohms on it and it does read faulty then i would replace it, another way to check is to remove the relay return spring and apply a 9 volt battery to the terminals and see if it draws in but thats more of a quick test.

But most likely it is a fine adjustment IMO.
Take all the info in first before you decide which is the right path to take.

#10 9 years ago

Hey NCV,

Nice work finding the BX/BXR relays.
Since the BXR relay isn't firing, we need to find out why.

BXR is called BX Reset on the schematics at E19.
There are only 4 switches that could be causing BXR to never fire.
They are...
...an NC switch on R, slate-yellow/blue-black
...an NC switch on U, same colors (these switches are in parallel.
...motor 2C, slate-yellow/blue-white. The "C" level is the easiest level to see.
...an NC switch at P5A. P5A refers to the 5th cam on the player unit, the "A" level, which is the lowest switch. Here's a diagram of the player unit cams.
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/Images/CamPositions-4Player.jpg

The easiest way to see if an NC switch is at fault is to jumper across it temporarily. If the circuit ten works, clean and adjust that pair. Note that you should adjust only the "free floating" switch in the pair; never the "trapped" switch.

Have at it. Let us know...
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

9 years later
#11 42 days ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

So...you are saying that a ball that drains scores the bonus. This proves that the outhole switch is making.

But, the ball is never served to the shooter lane either at game start or after scoring the bonus.

Quoted from ChrisHibler:

If not, examine the NC switches on Q (yellow-black and slate-black) and on AX (slate-black and white-orange). One of these normally closed switches isn't making.

Thank you 9 years later! Exact same problem; it was the AX switch.

#12 40 days ago

Love it!

Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

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