(Topic ID: 111882)

Gottlieb EM Decagon Units - 8 at a time


By DirtFlipper

5 years ago



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  • 43 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by slgerber
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    #1 5 years ago

    I'm in the middle of doing a rebuild on a Gottlieb 2-player, and am finishing up the backbox. I thought I'd share a few pictures of part of the score reel rebuild process.

    For these I just do them in bulk, and for two reasons: I shave off a little bit of time by cleaning stuff in bulk batches, but I also like to rotate parts out of the Player 2 reels into the Player 1 reels (mainly plungers and/or coil stops), kinda like rotating tires.

    Still have to affix all the labels that had previously fallen off, and do the reassembly, but I thought the parts pile looked neat.

    Pre-cleaning pile of reels and brackets
    Pre-cleaning pile of small parts
    Coils, switches, and boards left behind (done later)
    Post-cleaning roundup of reels

    #2 5 years ago

    They are very lucky parts DF. There would not be many precleaned parts in that condition but the post cleaning are certainly pristine. Thks for sharing along with the 'tyre rotation' concept.

    #3 5 years ago

    dirt, you are my hero...

    just looking at those piles gives me the chills...

    #4 5 years ago

    This is awesome - love it. I hadn't thought of rotating the player 1/2 parts before - what a great idea! Next time. That being said, I usually just do one at a time for fear that I won't be able to get them back together correctly without an example already completed.

    #5 5 years ago
    Quoted from u2sean:

    without an example already completed

    That's what having another EM on hand is for...

    There's also a good reference diagram in the '78 parts catalog. And one can always take pictures too.

    But after doing these awhile, it just becomes auto-pilot for the most part. There's not much to them.

    #6 5 years ago
    Quoted from DirtFlipper:

    That's what having another EM on hand is for...
    There's also a good reference diagram in the '78 parts catalog. And one can always take pictures too.
    But after doing these awhile, it just becomes auto-pilot for the most part. There's not much to them.

    i agree, i don't think i'd fear putting them back together from a big pile... i don't think that would be a problem...

    what i would fear is getting bored halfway through and the rest of them sitting there for 2 months undone...

    #7 5 years ago

    Looking good DF.

    What? Nobody putting up a guess as to which game these parts belong too?

    #8 5 years ago

    hmmm... relatively newish, as they are 3rd gen reels...

    #9 5 years ago

    There's a pretty good clue in the third picture, which would really narrow it down...

    #10 5 years ago

    Is the ratchet wheel, bottom center, the clue? Yes, I need a clue for the clue.

    #11 5 years ago
    Quoted from DirtFlipper:

    There's a pretty good clue in the third picture, which would really narrow it down...

    ok, score reels are on top right side (looking at it from the front)... which does narrow it down considerably...

    is that a half moon credit wheel there? if so, i'm guessing "top score"...

    #12 5 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    ok, score reels are on top right side (looking at it from the front)...

    Not top left?

    #13 5 years ago

    Um, do I have a Top Score listed in my collection?

    #14 5 years ago

    Pioneer was my guess before your last clue.

    I just went through the head of a Spirit of 76 this weekend so the backside looked familiar. Although I did not tear down any score reels.

    #15 5 years ago

    Looks like a lot of fingers pointing to Fire Queen!

    #16 5 years ago

    Fire Queen doesn't have a half-moon credit unit.

    But.... Pioneer does!

    #18 5 years ago

    MikeO nailed it with Pioneer.

    #19 5 years ago

    Just did a "full clean" of score reel--coil out, everything, the 9 just didn't want to turn over all the way the first time. Got it all back together, did the same thing--9 wouldn't make it....removed the wave washer under the c-clip and now it works. Is that cheating?

    #20 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    Just did a "full clean" of score reel--coil out, everything, the 9 just didn't want to turn over all the way the first time. Got it all back together, did the same thing--9 wouldn't make it....removed the wave washer under the c-clip and now it works. Is that cheating?

    Yes!

    #21 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    removed the wave washer under the c-clip and now it works. Is that cheating?

    Yes - put it back and adjust it correctly.

    (the washer is there to prevent too much play up/down on the reel, and without it, the bottom two switches won't work well.)

    #22 5 years ago
    Quoted from DirtFlipper:

    Yes - put it back and adjust it correctly.

    What am I adjusting to get the 9 to go another quarter inch without so mush effort? I thought a turbo cleaning was supposed to take care of that...

    #23 5 years ago

    I have the same problem on my player 1 thousands reel. Sticks halfway between 9 and 0 despite a total cleaning. I'm going to re-clean when I get a chance.

    #24 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    What am I adjusting to get the 9 to go another quarter inch without so mush effort? I thought a turbo cleaning was supposed to take care of that...

    Often a good cleaning will, but if the switches had been previously messed with, then sometimes that needs to be undone. If there's too much downward pressure from the three switch blades in the switch actuator, then it makes it more difficult for the return spring to pull up the drive rack (the part that has the gears on it).

    If it's the metal type of drive rack (and not the Nylon, like I have above), then a bit of SuperLube on the slide points can also help.

    And a new coil sleeve is good too, as they tend to get a lot of gunk in them.

    #25 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    What am I adjusting to get the 9 to go another quarter inch without so mush effort? I thought a turbo cleaning was supposed to take care of that...

    If the nine position switch is adjusted to where the wireform that closes it at that position has to push the switch too far, it causes drag on the reel and it won't turn over to 9 properly.

    Adjust the nine position switch to where it just closes at 9 and see if that doesn't cure your problem.

    #26 5 years ago
    Quoted from DirtFlipper:

    f there's too much downward pressure from the three switch blades in the switch actuator, then it makes it more difficult for the return spring to pull up the drive rack

    It's the plastic relay looking piece, not wire type. So the answer is adjust all the switches up a bit? I adjusted the 9 "up" so the plastic wasn't pushing it as far after it closes, but still struggles to click that last bit. Adjust the rest of the switches up a bit as well?

    #27 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    It's the plastic relay looking piece, not wire type. So the answer is adjust all the switches up a bit? I adjusted the 9 "up" so the plastic wasn't pushing it as far after it closes, but still struggles to click that last bit. Adjust the rest of the switches up a bit as well?

    Yes, although it might be worthwhile to compare to another reel that's working, just to ensure nothing else is awry (and to get a sense for the blade positions).

    #28 5 years ago

    Adjusted them all up a bit--took a few tries. It makes it now, but just barely. Taking off the washer was way easier...

    #29 5 years ago

    Did you replace the coil sleeve? (The gunk in them really does create more resistance.)

    Could also try swapping the return spring with another reel and see if that helps (like one from the 100's, where there's no board involved).

    Or, could post a couple pics and see if there's anything else amiss.

    #30 5 years ago

    I did not have any extra sleeves. I cleaned the heck out of the existing sleeve. I have to remember to add a bunch of those to my next pbr order. Shortening those return springs cause any issues?

    #31 5 years ago

    I'm not a fan of shortening springs. I'd try swapping with another spring from another reel first. But could try hitching it up a winding or two. They can wear out.

    If it's the metal type of drive rack though, did you add some SuperLube where it slides? (I'm referring to the part that's underneath the score reel, where the geared hub fits into.)

    Basically there are several points of possible friction, and every little bit helps, even after cleaning. These reels got used a lot, typically didn't get any maintenance, so when folks added grease, bent the blades, and so forth to compensate, getting them back to a good baseline is important to help them operate correctly again. Cleaning was a great start.

    #32 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    I did not have any extra sleeves. I cleaned the heck out of the existing sleeve. I have to remember to add a bunch of those to my next pbr order. Shortening those return springs cause any issues?

    Good point Wickerman2-I think one of the most important purchases I have made is a good stock of coil sleeves from PBR based on the coils used in all of my machines. Initially it was to defray the high cost of these sleeves in Australia but I quickly realised how important it is to have these sleeves, which are really quite an inexpensive maintenance item (if you buy from PBR), on hand.

    #33 5 years ago
    Quoted from DirtFlipper:

    If it's the metal type of drive rack though, did you add some SuperLube where it slides?

    It's the plastic-ish glider not the metal. Also plastic parts that move the switches instead of the metal wire looking thing. So no lube on the plastic ones I assume....since I just cleaned off the gunk left over from last person that tried that...

    I'll swap a spring.

    #34 5 years ago

    If it's a reel with a circuit board, did the board get cleaned and SuperLubed? (another place for friction.)

    #35 5 years ago
    Quoted from DirtFlipper:

    If it's a reel with a circuit board, did the board get cleaned and SuperLubed?

    Cleaned, no superlube. I have not used that on score reels in the past--you do that as part of your reel cleaning every time? I use a tiny bit on steppers.

    I took out 3 rings on the spring and it works great now.

    #36 5 years ago

    yes, the little two-arm wiper that sits on the reel makes a metal-metal contact on the circuit board. The circuit boards previously had the old style grease on them, so after cleaning all that off, some SuperLube is great to reduce the friction for the wiper.

    #37 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    Cleaned, no superlube. I have not used that on score reels in the past--you do that as part of your reel cleaning every time? I use a tiny bit on steppers.
    I took out 3 rings on the spring and it works great now.

    Springs do get fatigued over time and can lose some of their strength. Knocking a few coils off the spring isn't sacrilege. You should clean, lube, and set up everything as best as you can, but if you've done all that and your reel still hangs a bit, doctoring the spring a bit is fine with me. Same with those pesky AS units. Sometimes you have to cheat a little and bend the spring tang out a bit to give the spring a little more tension.

    #38 5 years ago

    Great tips and timely too

    3 weeks later
    #39 5 years ago

    My reels are not advancing to 10000 reliably. Sometimes it will work and never on player 3. Does the 9th position or the zero position switch the next reel?

    #40 5 years ago
    Quoted from Speeddemon:

    My reels are not advancing to 10000 reliably. Sometimes it will work and never on player 3. Does the 9th position or the zero position switch the next reel?

    9th pos.

    #41 5 years ago

    Plus a switch on the associated score reel relay.

    #42 5 years ago
    Quoted from Speeddemon:

    My reels are not advancing to 10000 reliably. Sometimes it will work and never on player 3. Does the 9th position or the zero position switch the next reel?

    On a game like Target Alpha, the Player 3 10,000 will need the 9th pos. switch from the 1,000s reel, switch P3A on the Players unit, and a switch on L to all be closed.

    2 weeks later
    #43 5 years ago

    I had the same issue with player 1 tens reel. I cleaned, adjusted, added a little more spring tension but to no avail. I thought I had it fix once and realized I forgot to put in the flat washer (not the wave washer)back into place. When I put it together correctly it still wouldn't work. What I ended up doing was taking the flat washer to my bench sander and took a little off until it functioned properly. I know, not right but I was running out of options.

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