(Topic ID: 141259)

Gottlieb Domino small issues.

By Otaku

8 years ago


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  • 21 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by pinhead52
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 8 years ago

Hi. I picked this up at the York show for a price I'm really really happy with and it has a really nice playfield and backglass (7 or 8 out of 10) which definitely counts to me. I was unable to fix these mechanical issues while at the show which is fine, I think people still had a lot of fun playing it nonetheless as I left it on the floor and even moved it towards my other machine later in the day to switch it up a bit and to allow others to play and enjoy it more as well.

Anyways, moving out the main point and the issue here, I think it might be one big related set of issues, something with the trough relays or something I would guess. The game runs forever, it sticks on Ball 5 forever. No amount of playfield switches or other processes will end this cycle, besides starting a new game (then draining the ball to officially start it to get power back to the playfield) or turning the game off and on and starting a new game, draining the ball as said above or turning it off and draining the ball into the trough then turning it on and starting a game, etc., nothing really weird there besides the big issue, just being specific just in-case it matters! Doesn't make a difference if it is set to 3-ball or 5-ball; it will go up to Ball 5 (as so on) as normal just minus the "LAST BALL IN PLAY" light being lit for either ball 3 or ball 5 under this configuration. The game does not tilt on it's own but if you tilt it on purpose/accident (the correct way, no bugs here) it will stay stuck in tilt even after the ball has returned to the trough. The switches down there are fine.

I heard this could be related to an issue with the match unit (0-9?) and indeed the match unit does not move at all unless you do so yourself, nor does it shake like it's stuck when it should move. It vibrates but I can't tell if that's from the other parts in the backbox doing that. The 1-point bell on it works I believe. The coil sleeve is black from the factory it seems but regardless it doesn't looked cooked or burnt up and it moves easily by hand so I don't think it is an issue there.

Also my advance doesn't switch around like it's supposed to but I think that's another issue and I'm hoping to fix the other issue first. Thanks! Very happy with my first wedgehead and being friends with some big time wedgehead collectors, I'm very happy to join the club (I would be regardless!). I'm only 17 but EMs and early solid state are very well represented in my collection. No DMD here! Thanks all for any help.

Otaku

#3 8 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

The 'Last Ball in Play' lite is controlled by the wiper on the Ball Count unit. When on ball 3 or 5 (depending on the setting), it completes a path through the 3/5-ball game adjustment to that light. You should be able to step the Ball Count unit manually to the last ball and see if this light comes on or not.
Game Over is controlled by the XB relay in the Control Bank (of relays). It should energize and trip after the last ball drains. So the Ball Count wiper disc is involved again, along with the 3/5-ball adjustment, switch at motor 2C, switch on O, and switch at motor 1A.
A common problem is that the black cloth-covered wire that bridges the spring-loaded fingers on the Ball Count wiper disc is missing, which will prevent the wiper disc from signaling ball 3 or 5, and will prevent completing the path to XB and reaching Game Over. Since the Last Ball in Play light also isn't working, the Ball Count unit seems to be a common factor, so perhaps start looking there.
The Match Unit is unrelated to these issues.

Hi DirtFlipper, when I said the "Last Ball In Play" light wasn't coming on, I only meant when it was set to 3-ball, which it doesn't light on ball 3 nor on the wrongly-obtainable ball 5+ in that setting. In 3-ball it will keep counting up, not only just shooting out balls but actually still counting up the ball count on the apron up through ball 4 and 5 and then ball 5 sticks again. When it is set to 5-ball (my ideal setting anyhow) it does come on on ball 5 and all of the balls after that.

Last night I cleaned the contacts on the ball count unit and also adjusted the unit so it centers more on the contacts correctly. No change.

I also read in another thread with a similar issue that the match relay/unit needs to be working for the game to signal game over, which is why I brought it up.

#5 8 years ago

Is that the little wire (for bottom contacts), or the one for the top contacts? I'm not sure if my unit has the bottom wire, I just saw it in pictures so I figured I'd get early clarification from you. Also, my unit only has 5 contacts on the top, not sure if any on the bottom. When the unit is reset fully back to the start position, I get no game over light on the apron nor on power cycle with the unit reset, not sure if I should be getting that or not. I'm thinking that's something I need to have a game completed previously for anyways but I figured I'd mention it. I'm guessing position 0 and position 6(?) are two very different things so disregard that if that's the case.

If XB is the game over relay (I'm guessing that's what you mean, it's too late to work on it again right now or to check the relay codes) then no, it is not tripping. On Ball 5 -> Ball 5, I believe the coil fires to advance the ball count unit but it seems like it's already at the maximum position of 5, or it's sticking on that towards the right.

Again as for the black wire (assuming there's only one, I didn't check for a second on the unit) it is there and I presume working correctly as the unit does advance the ball count and this reflects on the apron and on the last ball indicator light, but only when it's on 5-ball for that last part as stated. I read that when set to 3-ball that it skips ball 4 and 5 to game over after ball 3 (like it should, obviously), but mine doesn't even attempt to do this as ball 4 and 5 are fully playable, obtainable (wrongly), and normal. Doesn't even try to skip past them and get stuck or anything like that. I'll be having it set on 5-ball anyways (and currently do) but I figured that might be a key piece in diagnosing the issue as well.

#7 8 years ago

Checked the second wire, it is there and connected on both ends. Cleaned the bottom contacts. No change. Exact same behavior. Keep in mind I am indeed getting the "last ball in play" light lit when it needs to be (at least on 5-ball play), not sure if the top or bottom contacts control that anyhow.

Also, I accidentally adjusted the first switch on the back of the ball count unit too open so it's not making contact when a ball is in play, just a little note to self to fix that tomorrow when I get more time or something, really need to get a proper tool for adjusting them back. Lost all power to the coils. Oh well, easy fix there at least. I always seem to break more than I fix, lol.

#8 8 years ago

Fixed my switch mess-up. Aside from that, I should note that if it so happens that my ones digit lands on the one my match wheel is "dead" on (8 at the moment, only changes by hand so it sits on 8), I'll get the knocker to go off and get a credit when the ball enters the trough. No match light though, and of course it kicks the ball right out again as per usual for this machine right now and the game continues. You can do this continuously if you don't increase the points by a 1 digit number, so if it drains on 8 again you'll keep getting the knocker and the credit until the digit changes by scoring respectfully. Are you sure it's not something with the match? I'm not sure if normally it's the match that fires the game over relay or something on the same relay that fires both the game over relay AND the match sequence/relay.

6 months later
#11 7 years ago

Little update as I look back to this thread for info, thoroughly sanded the ball count unit today, fixed the unrelated match issue (10 point relay switch adjustment) yesterday, and sanded most of the jones plugs today. No change, so I'm going to move onto checking the other switches later.

Did test the game over relay by activating it by hand and it does work.

#13 7 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

take a jumper and apply 25 volts to the lower contacts on the ball in play unit, see if the last ball relay pulls in

Where would I find this relay? Maybe I'm just blind but I can't seem to find it. Not on the bank (usually here?) or in the bottom of the cabinet. Does this game have one? No last ball distinct features and the last ball light is controlled by the unit itself.

Also, the game won't "un-tilt" after it's tilted and the ball drains so I'm definitely thinking it's a related issue. When I press the trough relay (ball trough relay I think it's called?) after a tilt I get a spin/cycle out of the score motor (doing nothing) and that's it.

#15 7 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

The ball in play unit is usually located in the head. A quick check of ipdb shows it to be in front of the transformer. We see 5 rivets across the top, this is your ball in play lights. On the bottom side of the disk you'll see two pairs of rivets that get closed by the wiper at ball 3 and at ball 5. With the game of 5 balls, this double wiper sets the last ball relay when the pair is closed. Applying 25v to one of the rivets should bring in the last ball relay. You may need to clean the rivets and the bouncy wiper "shoes" as they are clean to ensure good contact.
One test I do if the last ball relay is not getting energized is to press down on the tops of the 2 shoes wit it in the right position and wiggle them, if i see the last ball relay pull in when i do this, time for wiper/disk cleaning.

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Great advice. The only problem is, I don't see a last ball in play relay (or a first ball relay like other games have). I'm going into the garage again for the day soon I'll look over it carefully again but so far anything significant on the relay bank I have found was the game over relay (along with things like reset, tilt, etc.), and anything on the bottom of the cabinet was mostly playfield related.

Any thoughts on the tilt issue being related? Thanks so much.

#16 7 years ago

Just looked, no last ball relay to be found, there's a game over relay (XB) in the relay bank, however no last ball relay.

#18 7 years ago

Manually shorted both score motor switches while cycling the ball on ball 5 (cleaned one before that too), with no change. 2C looks NC? Even has the spacer to push it open. However it should be NO, right? I've looked over it several times and know I must be reading it right.

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I was messing around with jumpers to test the game over relay coil (it works) and prodded around some more 30V lines, and the switch @ 1A has no voltage on either end of the switch while the game is in-play but idle. Not sure if this is significant to whatever comes before this or useless information. Seems like it would be an issue as it makes the switch useless, but there's a switch before it that would make lots of sense. Just figured I would include this info.

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During 30V hold OFF, playfield dark, BG lit: Applying 30V/25V to the bottom wire only turned on two playfield "alternating" relays. Same effect with the game with the hold on and running. I did this to the bottom contact with the tab that would be hit when the ball is on ball 5, perhaps I just gave power to the 25V line and did it on the wrong contact? I didn't try the inner one.

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My ball-in-play unit stops dead at ball 5. It will not push itself further. Is this normal behavior? I know some units push past and then back after triggering the game over relay which would make the most sense, however if I adjusted it so it could do that it would always start on ball 2. The starting point is before any of the 5 contacts on the top, for reference. When the ball kicks into the shooter lane a switch then advances it up to ball 1.

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pinhead52, if you'd like to take a look at it at Pinfest if I can't get it working before then you're welcome to, doubt the last thing you want to do on vacation is looking inside a pinball machine but that's my kind of vacation anyways, hah, so figured I'd throw it out there if it's yours too... It was doing this (and was in sorry shape) at the show I bought it from and people still had a blast and since it's fully working besides this I'm going to bring it regardless, just a minor annoyance for show-goers. One lady played for like 20-30 balls until she finally walked away.

Was only able to work on it on weekends but now that I am bringing it back to PA in preparation for Pinfest I will be able to look and work on it every day leading up to it from now on, so expect me to be a lot more response. Thanks for all of your help.

#19 7 years ago
#20 7 years ago

(A lot of stuff was partially unscrewed/unpinned to troubleshoot today, please note that all of that stuff is normally secured properly)

Motor 1A only seems to have two switches on it even though the diagram says 3. It is the one by the play count meter, correct? I tried to look at it all different ways and also found number stickers to clarify my assumptions.

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