(Topic ID: 261027)

Gottlieb Domino - 3 Ball vs 5 Ball / Liberal vs Conservative


By JudeRussell

7 months ago



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  • 9 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by PINHEAD_STEVE
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20200507_123536 (resized).jpg
Domino Domimo lights (resized).jpg
3 Ball vs 5 Ball (resized).jpg
Domino Advance Option (resized).jpg

#1 7 months ago

Recently picked up the schematic for my new-to-me Gottlieb Domino which has been playing fine in 5 ball mode, and starting to poke around a bit under the hood.

The schematic led me down the rabbit hole of 3 Ball vs 5 Ball, there's a honking jones plug strip to make that change, and it seems to impact a lot of the playfield, and I wanted to check it out.

So far:

5 Ball: 2 of 6 top lanes light (alternately), pop bumpers alternate (red / yellow), and center target turns on periodically (1 of 3 cases)

3 Ball: 2 of 6 top lanes light (alternately, no change), pop bumpers alternate (red / yellow / all), and center target is always lit

Not sure if all this is right, but it seems (mostly) right. I'm have not noticed or dug into any differences in the captive holes (spin & advance), the roto targets themselves, or the side drains (advance) or center drain (spin).

I'm also looking at the Domino Advance setting (conservative vs liberal) and as far as I can tell, I'm not seeing much impact there. Base on the schematic, I'm guessing it impacts what will advance the dominos, but have not noticed it yet. The purported 3 ball / 5 ball instructions (3 ball instruction card not verified) show no differences, nor do the playfield instructions or schematic.

Y = (Captive side) Hole Relay
X = 100 Pt & Advance Relay
V = Roto Target Scoring Relay

Any Domino owners have a manual, other documentation, experience, or link to a thread here that might let me know what it SHOULD be doing?
Domino Advance Option (resized).jpg

3 Ball vs 5 Ball (resized).jpg
#2 7 months ago

Regarding manuals - Rolf is on a quest to find the oldest manuals... looks like nothing before Snow Queen (1970)... so far....

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-the-race-is-on-the-first-oldest-real-manual

#3 7 months ago
Quoted from JudeRussell:

I'm also looking at the Domino Advance setting (conservative vs liberal) and as far as I can tell, I'm not seeing much impact there.

Your schematic shows when the Advance Unit will fire. On the left side is a normally open switch on the X relay so nothing happens unless the X relay has fired. On the right side are three Score Motor switches which each let a pulse into the circuit whenever the Score Motor turns through one cycle. So assuming the X relay has fired there are three ways to step the Advance Unit:

1) the pulse from the Score Motor 4C switch will always step the Advance Unit
2) the pulse from the Score Motor 3B switch will step the Advance Unit if the V relay has fired in 3 ball mode
3) the pulse from the Score Motor 1B switch will step the Advance Unit if the V relay has fired and either
..3a) the Advance adjustment is in the Liberal setting or
..3b) the Y relay has not fired and in 3 ball mode

One thing the schematic does not show is the Motor Sequence Chart which would show when the three Score Motor switches fire relative to each other.

/Mark

#4 7 months ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Your schematic shows when the Advance Unit will fire.

Thank-you, useful. Your way of looking at / describing the relay logic makes things more clear.

So...the X relay is the main show, being energized by: lighted lanes, lighted targets, hole relay, lower rollover relays (side drains), as well as the roto unit when the domino matches. Trial and error provides the following:

5 Ball / Conservative: One advance per roto-target hit / One advance per captive hole capture via Motor 4C

5 Ball / Liberal: Two advances per roto-target hit / One advance per captive hole capture via Motor 4C & Motor 1B

3 Ball / Conservative: Three advances per roto-target hit / Two advances per captive hole capture via Motor 4C & Motor 3B & Motor 1B (except Y / Hole Relay)

3 Ball / Liberal: Three advances per roto-target hit / Three advance per captive hole capture via Motor 4C & Motor 3B & Motor 1B

Which makes perfect sense from the schematic / your description. All working as it should!

Thanks for the push in the right direction!

#5 7 months ago
Quoted from DaMoib:

Regarding manuals - Rolf is on a quest to find the oldest manuals... looks like nothing before Snow Queen (1970)... so far....

Interesting, thanks! I wondered why I could picks one up for Duotron but not Domino....

1 month later
#6 6 months ago

Great info about Domino, thanks. I’ve just started spending some time on my long-neglected Domino. Project of the day was the roto target. It now spins at least a couple full rotations and stops in perfect alignment every time. Turning my attention to the Domino advance stepper next. Quick question for anyone with a working Domino: is it supposed to start with the first Domino lit, or light the first one upon first advance. I’m guessing it starts with the first on, but I want to make sure because it’s several positions off right now and I want to set it right.

#7 6 months ago
Quoted from Larrymc:

Quick question for anyone with a working Domino: is it supposed to start with the first Domino lit, or light the first one upon first advance. I’m guessing it starts with the first on, but I want to make sure because it’s several positions off right now and I want to set it right.

Domino Domimo lights (resized).jpg
It looks like when the Advance Unit is reset and at position 0, the 5 domino should be on, unless the game is tilted.

/Mark

#8 6 months ago
Quoted from MarkG:

It looks like when the Advance Unit is reset and at position 0, the 5 domino should be on, unless the game is tilted.

That's how mine works; so the five spot target is "hot" if it happens to be up.

1 month later
#9 4 months ago
20200507_123536 (resized).jpg
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