(Topic ID: 307270)

Gottlieb: Dancing Lady Strange Reset Problem

By flipperdoktor

4 months ago


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  • Latest reply 3 months ago by flipperdoktor
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Dancing Lady R relay (resized).jpg
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IMG_20220113_092734 (resized).jpg

#1 4 months ago

Gottlieb "Dancing Lady" 1966

Strange problem with further games after the first one.
When I turn on the machine and start a game, everything is normal.
I can play it to the end (3 or 5 balls make no difference, even if 1 or many players do not change anything) and everything is still normal.
If I then want to start a game again, the 110 and thus also the 30V drop during the reset process, and the pinball machine goes dark.

#2 4 months ago

Can you describe how you are turning the machine on, starting the first game, and how you are starting the second game?

#3 4 months ago
Quoted from AndrewP:

Can you describe how you are turning the machine on, starting the first game, and how you are starting the second game?

Plug in - Insert Coins or pressing Start/Credit-button if enough Credits - Play.
After first game(s) 1 to 4 Players)- Insert Coins or Press Start if i have Credits. (testing like on public place or/and simulating a Play)

#4 4 months ago

Two wires fly into the void. Could someone verify where this should end.
Blue / yellow from the relay contact package and orange / blue which disappears in the black box.

the two black ones come from the transformer and are connected in the block terminal.
Blue / yellow & orange / blue are individually stripped.

many thanx
gábor

IMG_20220113_092734 (resized).jpgIMG_20220113_092833 (resized).jpg

#5 4 months ago

The loose wires have been clarified, they are those from the missing knocker.
The problem with the 110V cutting off when repeatedly starting the game after switching it on still persists.
After all, I now have a second "Dancing Doll" that I first have to repair and then compare.
The problem again:
After plugging in, I can play without problems, 1-4 players, with existing credit or coin slot. He resets normally and plays to the last ball and game over without restrictions.
But if I then want to start another game, the reset process simply breaks off, the 110V drop, and of course all the relays and lights too.
I have the impression that the termination takes place at the moment when the "Armature Bank" should reset.

Believe me, all contacts have been checked several times, all soldering points, etc... I've even replaced and adjusted the "Armature Switch".
And yes, I'm not inexperienced in repairing EM pinballs, but this lady is really getting on my nerves.
What is the difference between a cold start and a warm start?
PS: I got the device already like this.

Help me please!!!
greetz
Gábor

#6 4 months ago
Quoted from flipperdoktor:

But if I then want to start another game, the reset process simply breaks off, the 110V drop, and of course all the relays and lights too.
I have the impression that the termination takes place at the moment when the "Armature Bank" should reset.

It sounds like the R/115 Volt Hold relay may be releasing when it shouldn't:
Dancing Lady R relay (resized).jpg
The R relay activates when you first start a game and should remain activated until power is shut off. It keeps 115 volts running through the transformer and provides the entire game with power.

If the R relay relaxes when the Control Bank resets that might be a clue that the voltage drops briefly from 115 volts, enough to cause the R relay to relax. I don't yet know why it works the first time though.

I would double check that the R relay coil has the correct coil number, A-9738 and that the Control Bank reset coil is A-5196.

As an experiment to test the theory you could unplug the game and put a jumper (an alligator clip test lead) across the R relay switch (or the K relay switch next to it in the schematic) connecting the black wire to the red wire to remove the R relay switch from the circuit. Then see if the game can start a 2nd game after finishing the first game.

Beware though that this entire circuit runs at 115 volts so you should not be poking around it when the game is plugged in.

/Mark

#7 4 months ago

Thanks Mark...

But I can definitely say that the voltage of the R coil drops.
Of course I've already bypassed the hold relay, if only because the "Dancing Doll" is set up ready to be played in the museum (Terra Technica Jukebox & Pinball Museum) and I don't want to light up the many EM pinball machines by hand, and it makes no difference
The reference to correct coils is very good, I'll follow that up.
The tilt/cheat switches were already manipulated by the predecessor and now that I see the schematic on the screen, I have a hard to read, original too, I have to admit I can't say 100% if the bounce switch is open! (but I think so...) ((tinker not thinker )
Tomorrow I'll be back at the pinball and checking that.

it would be too ridiculous for that to be the fault, but EM pinballs do things like that, especially when you've checked everything 100 times and can't find a fault.

#8 4 months ago

You've bypassed the red to black wire switch on the R relay and the game still loses power during reset?

1 week later
#9 3 months ago

Yes, but then the score motor spins constantly and sometimes the dashboard reset coil twitches.

If I unplug the pinball machine and plug it back in, everything seems normal again.

PS: the "bounce switch" must be closed, otherwise nothing works.

In the meantime I have repaired a second Dancing Lady and installed the nicer playing field.

However, as long as the defective lady is in the workshop, I would be very interested in what causes this strange error.
Yes, I checked, cleaned and adjusted the contacts on the score motor, as well as the cables and solder joints. 3x

x

#10 3 months ago

I think that bounce switch that is shown on the schematic as open, should be closed.

#11 3 months ago
Quoted from Quercus22:

I think that bounce switch that is shown on the schematic as open, should be closed.

...definitely, an open bounce switch breaks the circuit, which is its job. There must be an error in the schematic.
greetz
Gábor

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