(Topic ID: 255897)

Gottlieb Card Whiz (1976) Score Motor Issue


By Silver_Balls

4 months ago



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  • 12 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by Silver_Balls
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Card Whiz (resized).jpg
Score Motor Legend (resized).jpg
Score Motor Position 1 (resized).jpg

#1 4 months ago

Hello Pinside,

Had my Card Whiz running 100% (except for "Special" not working on kickout hole) and thought I would clean position #1 of score motor of built up gunk of 1A, 1B, & 1C accumulation......since then, problems! Should know better, but felt ambitious so now suffering consequences. I've had 1A, 1B, & 1C switch stacks off and switch dogs off several times inspecting and being certain all gaps of switches are good.....to no avail.

Now on start sequence everything starts as it normally except score motor stops short of where it should. If I manually rotate score motor to correct position (sometimes as much as 1/4 inch or many times just on the edge of position 1C going into the dwell) then everything works as it should. The Ball Return relay ejects ball over trough switch and ball 1 is in play. The slings and pop bumper score as they should (no score motor rotation). If I manually make the 500 point & 3000 point relays they score as they should. But every time the score motor rotates if manually pressing joker target instead of relay the motor comes up short (picture attached) of where it should and nothing on playfield works until I advance score motor manually.

I'm also attaching picture of Card Whiz motor legend and start sequence if this is helpful. Both switch dogs (1A & 1C) are in the short position as they should be as I took pictures before cleaning.

Can someone suggest something as a starting point?

Card Whiz (resized).jpgScore Motor Legend (resized).jpgScore Motor Position 1 (resized).jpg
#2 4 months ago
Quoted from Silver_Balls:

score motor stops short of where it should

If the score motor stops before it should, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires, especially the indicated switch on motor 1C
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

For a switch to work 3 things are necessary:
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening

pasted_image (resized).png
#3 4 months ago

Thank you HowardR for the response. I will get alligator clip jumpers this weekend.

I have this issue solved as it was a silly mistake on my part. I realize that the switch dog in position 1C should be in the S position, I had this in the L position seeming the motor stopping short but was stopping where it should. In my haste of troubleshooting I overlooked that on reinstalling 1A, 1B, & 1C.

I have one other issue to address when I get back on Monday, possible a Thanksgiving troubleshooting day. Card Whiz is a 2 player game, Player 1 is not keeping score correctly. Specifically when the 1,000's score reel is anything other than 0, the 10,000 score reel moves 1 position (sometimes 2) when the drop target bank resets. So everything keeps score good except for when the ball drains which resets the sequence bank & the drop target bank for next ball. when the banks reset, strong solenoid action, and I can see the 10,000 score reel increment 1 digit, sometimes 2. This increases my score by 10 or 20 K on each ball. Never happens when 1,000 score reel on 0. Player 2 is fine, this only happens on player 1. Sometimes I can see the 10,000 digit vibrate a bit when banks reset and not increment, but most of the time it increments.

Seems mechanical I guess but I've dismantled and rebuilt both 1,000 & 10,000 score reels several times. Seems like possibly the 9's switch on 1,000 reel too close but not the case. I have 4 '70's era Gottlieb pins and have rebuilt many a Decagon in my time.

Anyones thoughts???

#4 4 months ago

If this game resets using Z1/2 relay(s) in the head, maybe a switch in it is gapped too close and closing during the vibration and while the motor is running? Weird stuff will definitely happen on the reels if you manually close Z while the motor is running for scoring etc.

#5 4 months ago

The only relays in the head are 10 Point (N), 100 point (M), 1,000 Point (L), & the match relay (F). This pin uses AX relay in the cabinet for reset. I thought possibly the L relay switch gaps but this is only happening on player 1. If any of the scoring relays had a problem I would see it on player 2 as well. Also it is not adding to the 1,000 relay score. I thought maybe the 1,000 score reel was causing a carry to the 10,000 which would mean the 9 switch position too close, but I'm sure all score reel switches are good while manually advancing both score reels.

#6 4 months ago

Yeah that's what I was thinking later too, even if it was a Z relay switch like in a 4 player it would do it on pl 1 and 2. Maybe bang on the pf hard and see if you can cause it to do this either with the score motor running or not, though it may only occur when the banks actually reset.

#7 4 months ago

Update with new info. This is definitely NOT a mechanical issue. This never happens on ball 1, 4, or 5. It always happens on balls 2 & 3. It never happens when the 10,000 score reel is at 0. When the 10,000 score reel is 1 through 9, any digit, when the ball drains and the player unit advances to next ball the 10,000 score reel advances 1 position. So I get and extra 10,000 points when ball 2 drains and another 10,000 when ball 3 drains.

I have dismantled the player unit and rebuilt it after cleaning all switches. I don't see how this wouldn't happen on balls 1 or 4, only 2 & 3 every time.

I now have insulated alligator clip jumpers but not sure where to bypass.

I don't know what to do next.

#8 4 months ago

I was thinking hey how about the P3/P4 relays, same idea as Z1/Z2 as far as a switch maybe being barely gapped open and it's closing from vibration. But then I don't know why that would only happen on ball 2 & 3 either. Can you clarify again, does the 10,000 reel skip ahead only when the 1,000 reel is not at zero, or only when the 10,000 reel is not at zero? And still only happens on player 1?

#9 4 months ago

This still sounds like a player unit issue, if it's only happening on player 1 with certain balls. One way the 10k reel can advance is through the runout switch on the 10k reel (the one at the top of the stack) and the P3D switch on the player unit (3rd cam from the metal gear, red, 4th switch from the cam). The runout switch is normally closed when the reel is at the 1-9 positions. After getting back to the player 1 ball 1 position, you could put a piece of paper in the P3D switch, then see if it still continues to add 10k on balls 2 and 3.

If it's an issue on that cam, obviously it should be consistent from ball to ball, but that's at least something to check.

#10 4 months ago

Yes maybe it is an undergapped switch at P3 in the player unit and it's only doing it on ball 2 and 3 due to how the player unit cog wheel is of course not 100% perfect, so it just happens to get a errant closure when the gear has rotated around to that 'high' spot. I'm grasping at straws.

#11 4 months ago

Thank you both, I will check these things tonight and report back.

#12 4 months ago

YES, that was the problem!! switch stack 3 on the player unit. I first blocked P3 top (away from cam) switch for ball 2 and it did not advance the 10,000 reel like it always has. I took the entire switch assembly out and cleaned and gapped all switches. After taking the switch stacks off I had a much better view of each switch stack, rather than the view from above.

All scoring is only what I earn now.

Thank you all for your guidance!!

Have a great holiday season.....

SB

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