(Topic ID: 362924)

gottlieb bronco start-up

By vipertblck

48 days ago


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Bronco BX relay (resized).JPG
Bronco Q relay (resized).JPG
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Bronco Start relay (resized).jpg
#1 48 days ago

recently picked this thing up and it's stumping me. turn it on and sometimes it will accept the credit button to restart a game. other times it just says tilt and credit button does nothing; manually hitting the relays eventually gets it to reset and start a game. having trouble getting the "player unit"(in front of the power switch inside the cabinet, by the chimes) to work and light up player 1-4. also not getting any ball in play (where is the ball count unit)? lot going on with this game so not sure how or where to start here...

#2 48 days ago

The unit just behind the chimes is the coin unit. The ball in play/player up unit is in the backbox.

#3 48 days ago

If you set the 1st & 2nd Coin Chute adjustment to 1 Coin 1 Play does the coin chute work? That would help you figure out which switch isn't closing in the circuit to fire the Replay Button relay:
Bronco Start relay (resized).jpgBronco Start relay (resized).jpg
Otherwise check all the switches in the circuit with the Replay Button switch (in red).

/Mark

#4 48 days ago
Quoted from MarkG:

If you set the 1st & 2nd Coin Chute adjustment to 1 Coin 1 Play does the coin chute work? That would help you figure out which switch isn't closing in the circuit to fire the Replay Button relay:
[quoted image]
Otherwise check all the switches in the circuit with the Replay Button switch (in red).
/Mark

thank you. ill check all those switches anyway just to be safe. as far as setting the coin chute adjustments; where do i do that at? is it a set of small jones plug pins somwehere? and then actually test the coin chute switch in the coin door to see if it works?

#5 47 days ago

The Coin Chute adjustment is probably on the bottom board, behind the coin box. Use the wire colors from the schematic to verify if the label is missing. If the coin chute switch is working dropping a coin should either start a game or award credits, based on where the adjustment plug is.

#6 47 days ago
Quoted from MarkG:

The Coin Chute adjustment is probably on the bottom board, behind the coin box. Use the wire colors from the schematic to verify if the label is missing. If the coin chute switch is working dropping a coin should either start a game or award credits, based on where the adjustment plug is.

went and checked this. flick the coin switch (either one) and it gives 2 credits. so, 2 credits per 1 coin. i obtained 10-12 credits and then hit the replay button on front of cabinet. game went through what im assuming is a reset sequence and was ready to play. now we stand at the coin unit not resetting, or balls in play lighting up. the coin unit should show how many players you select, right? player 1 is standard after reset, hit the replay button again and it'll be 2 player, hit it a 3rd time so on so forth. mine doesnt even light up player 1 for 1 player. also the ball count or ball in play doesnt have any lights on-didn't see a ball count unit or anything though as im used to on williams style games.

still plan to go through all the switches labeled in the schematic you provided for the replay circuit and check/clean them if necessary.

#7 47 days ago
Quoted from vipertblck:

or balls in play lighting up

Quoted from vipertblck:

doesnt even light up player 1 for 1 player

The switches on P and AX on the left side of this circuit are common to both of those functions.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#8 47 days ago

made some progress. reset a game and player 1 ball 1 lights up. the "coin unit" (stepper beside the chimes) needs some adjustment as when hitting the replay to add all 4 players, it needs a bit of a jiggle by hand to line up properly and show 4 players lit up. does this stepper have an adjustment?

play the ball through and once it's drained and getting ready to spit out(what should be ball 2); the outhole switch fires the outhole coil as well as the top coil on the coin unit at the same time, and the rollover switch for the ball entering the shooter lane doesnt advance to ball 2 in play lite.

#9 46 days ago

tinkered with this yesterday and today. it now will restart a game and add up to 4 players accordingly with the replay button. ball in play is advancing. issues im having trouble with now are as follows:
-during a reset, the z2 relay sticks on, allowing the score motor to just spin and spin and spin, all reels are at 0. dis engaging the z2 relay with my finger will unlock the relay and advances the player unit a few more strokes and the game is ready to play.
-for a 1 player game, it scores and advances to ball 2 ok; but for ball 3 and beyond it advances players scoring, but the coin unit isn't moving. for example, ball 3 scores player 2, ball 4 scores player 3, and ball 5 scores player 4. ball 5 drains and it just spins the score motor again over and over.

been digging at this the past 2 days and im stuck...

#10 46 days ago
Quoted from vipertblck:

during a reset, the z2 relay sticks on, allowing the score motor to just spin

If the Add Player Unit solenoid doesn't advance at least 1 step when the 3rd and 4th player score reels find their way to zero,
Starting with the 3rd and 4th Player Reset Switches in this circuit,
Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-big-shot-repair#post-6305153
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156

#11 45 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

If the Add Player Unit solenoid doesn't advance at least 1 step when the 3rd and 4th player score reels find their way to zero,
Starting with the 3rd and 4th Player Reset Switches in this circuit,
Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
[quoted image]
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-big-shot-repair#post-6305153
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156

i see were checking all the reset switches for all players. are these the switches on each score reel?

#12 45 days ago
Quoted from vipertblck:

i see were checking all the reset switches for all players. are these the switches on each score reel?

Yes. Check wire colors to find the exact switches.

#13 41 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

If the Add Player Unit solenoid doesn't advance at least 1 step when the 3rd and 4th player score reels find their way to zero,
Starting with the 3rd and 4th Player Reset Switches in this circuit,
Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
[quoted image]
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-big-shot-repair#post-6305153
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156

nailed it!! ur a genius! just had a set on one reel that looked ok but needed a bit of tweaking to complete the circuit. now the final problem, from what i can tell is the player unit advancing when it shouldnt...

-for a 1 player game, it scores and advances to ball 2 ok; but for ball 3 and beyond it advances players scoring, but the coin unit isn't moving. for example, ball 3 scores player 2, ball 4 scores player 3, and ball 5 scores player 4. ball 5 drains and it just spins the score motor again over and over.

#14 41 days ago
Quoted from vipertblck:

but the coin unit isn't moving

The Coin unit shouldn't move during game play.

Quoted from vipertblck:

ball 3 scores player 2, ball 4 scores player 3, and ball 5 scores player 4

These switches, and the Coin unit disk & wiper control how many times the Add Player unit solenoid advances the Player unit.

See paulace 's recent post for a description of how that circuit works.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/royal-flush-player-unit-advances-too-many-times#post-8373554

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#15 41 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

The Coin unit shouldn't move during game play.

These switches, and the Coin unit disk & wiper control how many times the Add Player unit solenoid advances the Player unit.
See paulace 's recent post for a description of how that circuit works.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/royal-flush-player-unit-advances-too-many-times#post-8373554
[quoted image]

so it sounds like all these "p-number" switches (p2g, p3g, etc.) are the ones on the player unit that make/break contact as the disk rotates. basically sounds like im getting too many, or not enough pulses from the coil on the player unit. thus giving me my problem?

#16 40 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

The Coin unit shouldn't move during game play.

These switches, and the Coin unit disk & wiper control how many times the Add Player unit solenoid advances the Player unit.
See paulace 's recent post for a description of how that circuit works.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/royal-flush-player-unit-advances-too-many-times#post-8373554
[quoted image]

checked into this and its just like the link you shared. im getting 5 pulses on the player unit instead of the correct 4. now to figure out why im getting the extra pulses

#17 40 days ago

moving along here. went to check the switches howard laid out and began with motor 2C. gave them a QUICK cleaning and checked adjustment. seemed to be ok and adjusted properly and when i went to turn the machine on; it just starts a reset sequence as soon as the switch is flipped. score motor spinning, player unit spinning, and coin unit spinning. all reels are at zero. did some digging and fiddling with wires and relays; narrowed it down to some dirty or mis-adjusted contacts on the S relay. got that sorted out (i hope) and tried a 1 player game. it worked! plays a full 1 player game but now it doesn't go to game over after ball 5, it just keeps letting you play and rack up points.

what's suppose to stop the game and "game over" the machine?

#18 40 days ago

There is a part of the player unit circuit that triggers the BX relay on your last ball:

Bronco BX relay (resized).JPGBronco BX relay (resized).JPG

I'm assuming you're playing a single-player, 5-ball game. When you get to ball 5, the player unit double-headed arrow (on the schematic) has moved all the way to rivet 16, which is player 1, ball 5. At that point, the path in red exists to energize the BX (last ball) relay. The path isn't completed until the O relay fires and closes the n/o O switch in that path.

One of the things that happens first when a ball drains, is that the O relay is energized. So when the 5th ball drains, the O relay fires, the n/o O switch in the red path closes, and the BX relay then fires.

The BX relay firing opens the n/c BX switch above near the Motor 1A switch. Since the switch is now open, no more pulses can get through to the player unit, so it doesn't move - just stays where it is.

Elsewhere, now that the O and BX switches are closed in the snippet below, the Q (Game Over) relay should fire when the score motor rotates enough to close the Motor 4B switch. A connection through the coin unit is involved as well.

Bronco Q relay (resized).JPGBronco Q relay (resized).JPG

Over in the light section of the schematic, a m/b switch on the Q relay turns off the "Ball in Play" lights and turns on the "Game Over" light. Another n/c switch on Q (on the far right power rail of the schematic) provides power to most of the machine, so it opens and should shut down scoring, flippers, etc.

If you're not going to Game Over, check your BX relay. Does it fire when the 5th ball drains? If not, why not. If it is firing, check the switches on it.

1 week later
#19 29 days ago
Quoted from paulace:

There is a part of the player unit circuit that triggers the BX relay on your last ball:
[quoted image]
I'm assuming you're playing a single-player, 5-ball game. When you get to ball 5, the player unit double-headed arrow (on the schematic) has moved all the way to rivet 16, which is player 1, ball 5. At that point, the path in red exists to energize the BX (last ball) relay. The path isn't completed until the O relay fires and closes the n/o O switch in that path.
One of the things that happens first when a ball drains, is that the O relay is energized. So when the 5th ball drains, the O relay fires, the n/o O switch in the red path closes, and the BX relay then fires.
The BX relay firing opens the n/c BX switch above near the Motor 1A switch. Since the switch is now open, no more pulses can get through to the player unit, so it doesn't move - just stays where it is.
Elsewhere, now that the O and BX switches are closed in the snippet below, the Q (Game Over) relay should fire when the score motor rotates enough to close the Motor 4B switch. A connection through the coin unit is involved as well.
[quoted image]
Over in the light section of the schematic, a m/b switch on the Q relay turns off the "Ball in Play" lights and turns on the "Game Over" light. Another n/c switch on Q (on the far right power rail of the schematic) provides power to most of the machine, so it opens and should shut down scoring, flippers, etc.
If you're not going to Game Over, check your BX relay. Does it fire when the 5th ball drains? If not, why not. If it is firing, check the switches on it.

got it! it was a matter of the o, bx, and game over relay that needed some help, as well as a "grounding wire" on one of the pins on the coin unit disk. cleaned, adjusted, and re-soldered the grounding wire that it's ending a single player game so far everytime. haven't moved to multi player games yet to check that

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