(Topic ID: 249971)

Gottlieb Bowling Queen Score Reel "stuck"


By tman67234

54 days ago



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  • 16 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 51 days ago by rolf_martin_062
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0Bowling-Queen-Work-04 (resized).jpg
Bowling Queen 1 point reset (resized).jpg

#1 54 days ago

Hi! I just bought a '64 Gottlieb Bowling Queen that has been in storage for a long time. Was making progress on fixing various relays and rollovers, all the while score reels seem to be working fine. They were incrementing correctly and reseting as they should. However, now the "1"s reel is getting stuck. Its unable to increment, which means when the game trys to reset to 0, it just clicks and clicks trying to get it to move, but it doesnt. If I manually push the coil plunger, all the mechanics seem free and it increments with ease. It feels no different then the "10"s and "100"s reels that are working without issue, so I'm inclined to not think its a mechanical issue. Sometimes it gets it and works briefly, but also gets stuck eventually. When it is acting up, it's like the coil doesn't have enough umpf/strength to get to the next ratchet tooth.

Is the coil just shot? Or something else at play? I'm an EM noob and have reading through http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#reels to try and figure this out.

Would love some recommendations or advice! Thanks in advance!

#2 54 days ago

After some more reading, I was thinking just the EOS switch needed adjustment. Like the solenoid was being un-energized too soon or something. But even with the EOS switch fully adjusted so that it never breaks contact (in theory should lock on), the reel just clicks and clicks with no increment. Here is a video:

Thoughts?

#3 54 days ago

I would check the switches in the 1-point relay in the head for proper adjustment. If that isn’t the problem, I would check that the wires to that relay, its switches, and the score reel solenoid are still firmly soldered. I also wouldn’t leave that EOS switch permanently closed.

#4 54 days ago

Actually, if the problem is during reset, I don’t think the 1-point relay would be involved, I apologize. You can check the score reel coil for resistance to see if it is shot. Here’s a link to a website that lists proper resistance for each coil. Even though the resistance need not exactly match the proper resistance as listed, it should’t be far off either.

https://www.flippers.com/coil-resistance.html

#5 54 days ago

PS, If the coil tests bad in-circuit (i.e., without disconnecting any wires), then de-solder the wire from either lug on the coil to take the coil out-of-circuit and test it for resistance again (sometimes the coil will test bad in-circuit but is actually not bad).

Hope this helps.

#6 54 days ago

You are correct. The 1-point relay is not involved. With the game on, if I manually trigger the 1-point relay, the reel increments no problem. In game play, the 1-point reel operates fine. However, upon further diagnosis, the reset signals coming from the score motor is where my issues lie. I've traced it back to a single switch in a relay on the score motor. It is arc'ing pretty good. Going to mess with adjusting and cleaning it.

Note: I've fixed the EOS switch so that it is not permanently closed. (cause that was totally locking the 1-point relay on. haha)

#7 54 days ago

Well... no amount of adjustment or cleaning of the relay bank on the score motor got "1"s score reel working. I'll check the resistance of the coil next time I'm working on it again. My schematic is in the mail, so maybe having that will help as well.

Thanks!

#9 54 days ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Your '0' sw. on the reel needs to be adjusted. http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#reels

If I manually move the reel to "0", the game does not attempt to reset and the issue above is avoided. Doesnt that indicate the '0' sw. is working as it should? Or am I missing something? Thanks!

#10 54 days ago
Quoted from tman67234:

If I manually move the reel to "0", the game does not attempt to reset and the issue above is avoided. Doesnt that indicate the '0' sw. is working as it should? Or am I missing something? Thanks!

Compare the sw. stack on the 1's and another reel that is working correctly with a score on each reel. The '0' sw. should be closed and that's what signals that it needs to be reset when starting a new game.

"A zero position switch which opens when the reel is at "zero". This is used in the game's reset process to set all the score reels at zero."

#11 53 days ago

If you are sure the mechanical aspects of the One's reel are not at issue (that includes a clean coil sleeve that isn't binding the plunger), it is possible the electrical signal from the reset circuit to the One's solenoid is weak.

I don't have a schematic for Bowling Queen, but if I assume the reset circuit is similar to a K&Q from 1965 (for which I do have a schematic), then there should be 3 switches which have to conduct to deliver the reset pulses to the One's reel solenoid. From right to left, they include a NO switch at Motor position 1A, an NC switch on the reset relay (called DB relay on the K&Q), and a NO runout switch on the One's reel itself.

It is likely not the Motor 1A switch since the other reels are resetting fine.

The Reset relay will contain 5 or 6 NC switches. Three of those will be used for resetting the 3 score reels. Without a schematic, I don't know the wire color to look for, so either locate that switch on the schematic OR clean and adjust all the NC switches and make sure the contact faces are closed completely.

Finally, the Ones runout switch needs to be clean and making solid contact when closed (which it will be at all score reel positions except 0).

Let us know if that helps.

Lee

#12 53 days ago

I think runbikeskilee is on the right track. Since the 1s reel can add points it seems to be advancing fine. And since other score reels can reset parts of the reset circuit are fine too. I suspect the problem is the switch that should let Score Motor pulses get to the 1s score reel during reset:
Bowling Queen 1 point reset (resized).jpg
The D/Reset relay has a switch for each score reel that lets pulses from the Score Motor 1A switch get to the score reels during reset. I suspect that the switch in the red box needs adjustment, or possibly the Runout switch on the 1s score reel as currieddog mentioned.

/Mark

#13 53 days ago

I had a similar problem on bank a ball where the ones unit would not reset consistently. Sometimes it would, sometimes it would move at a different pace then the other score units, sometimes it wouldn't move. The wire on the reset relay for that score unit wasn't actually soldered to the switch tab (it was adjacent to the solder blob), it was held in place by the tension of the wire and tab(the wire was connecting several switches pretty tight). It left the factory like that, and I bet the machine had the issue its entire life.

#14 53 days ago

Thanks Mark for showing the snippet of the actual schematic.

When you look for the switch on the Reset relay with an OR-RED wire attaching to one tab and apparently a RED-BLK wire attaching to the other, also make sure both wires are securely soldered to the switch tab as Gutz points out, and not hanging on by a single strand or such. A poor connection there will limit current through the switch.

Also check same on the runout switch on the One's reel, which should have the OR-RED wire attaching to one tab of the switch which only opens at zero on the score reel.

Lee

#15 51 days ago

Thanks runbikeskilee and markg! I cleaned and adjusted all the switches in circuit as specified and its def working more reliably. I think its good to roll! My schematic is in the mail, so I especially appreciate the insight at this time.

Thanks again!

#16 51 days ago

Hi tman67234
I do not like "me working on something - get ready to post --- and a new post just came in - kind of destroying what I have written / wanted to post"
So the following was written NOT knowing post-15 ...

Hi tman67234
where are You at "troubleshooting" ? I am at the same place in the schematics as currieddog , Runbikeskilee , MarkG - chasing for the fault --- compare "my orange wiring in the JPG" with Your schematics --- electrically the same. Look for broken-off wire-RED-BLK. Still also in question is "my marked red" stuff. Greetings Rolf

0Bowling-Queen-Work-04 (resized).jpg
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