Hi Brian
thanks for post-100, good news. You say "also coin door coil activates" --- question: (only) with Jumper-Wires in use or "coin door coil activates when no Jumper-wire is used" ?

A while ago HowardR suggested the "safety pin (use) trick" - I tried it and the "safety pin trick" worked in my pinball machine. For this trick we need wires having fabric-insulation - when a wire has rubber / nylon / plastic insulation: It is hard to impossible to do the safety pin trick.
You have made the "A,B,C,D,E" tests having a Jumper-Wire clipped-on at 24VAC-10Amp-Fuse-Holder. Wire-red-black is soldered-on there. Question: Is the insulation on wire-red-black made of fabric ? or rubber / nylon / plastic ? I hope for "made of fabric". (Toggle-off, unplug the main power cord) Unclip the Jumper-Wire, take a safety pin - almost parallel to the running wire-red-black: Insert the tip of the safety pin through the fabric into the wire (push hard) so the tip of the safety pin gets into contact with the wire. Then clip-on the Jumper-Wire - on the safety pin. (Plug-in, toggle-on) Then do test "A" - the E-Relay-Coil fires (?) You have proven "Safety-Pin trick" works.

Now the real thing - the safety pin inserted in another place - see the JPG --- the safety-pin inserted somewhere into "my wire-orange is wire-maroon-green in the schematics is hopefully also wire-maroon-green in Your pinball-machine". See in the JPG the motor-switches on 1C, 1C, 1D, 2B - there is a wire (hopefully having fabric-insulation) connecting one blade/solderlug on each switch --- look for the best place to insert the tip of the safety-pin into this connecting wire. Then clip-on the Jumper-Wire at the safety-pin and to the tests "(A, B, C,) D, E" - big Question: Does the coil on E-Relay fire ?
When "Yes": fine.
When "No": Either motor-switch-2B is no good or the connecting wire "motor-2B to Anti-Cheat-Switch" is no good or Anti-Cheat-Switch is no good or connecting wire "Anti-Cheat-Switch to 24VAC-10Amp-Fuse (through Bounce-Switch)" is no good. Greetings Rolf

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Hi Brian
thanks for testing and post-102. I am perplex / totally confused when I read post-102 and try to understand what I believe I read --- I must ask to be sure I understand correct.
You did "A, B, C, D, E tests" using as clip-on- / starting-point: Fuseholder, 24VAC-10Amp fuse. You got action on E-Relay. I then asked You to change the clip-on- / starting-point to: Connecting wire motor-1C, motor-1C, motor-1D, motor-2B AND do testing the "A, B, C, D, E tests" - testing towards the E-Relay-Coil.
And now my problem of understanding - You write in post-102: "only coin-door activates on some tests , when connecting jumper to 2B then nothing happens" --- I read "when connecting jumper to 2B then coin-door does NOT activate". See the bottom of the JPG - see the "Coin-Lockout-Coil is Your coin-door stuff" is connected to the Fuseholder, 24VAC-10Amp fuse through two always closed Slam-Tilt-Switches --- the "Coin-Lockout-Coil is Your coin-door stuff" MUST pull-in and stay pulling when You plug-in, toggle-on the pin. I am confused - what is the "Coin-Lockout-Coil is Your coin-door stuff" doing when You have no jumperwires set ?

I have been working on the JPG (middle part of JPG) - before proceeding I must ask (see above). Greetings Rolf

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Hi Brian
my ideal of a topic is a good title (with the name of the pin) and 10 to 20 posts. This topic has more than 100 posts. Nobody that lands here will read all the posts - he will read post-1 and the last post. So whenever in the near future You think "this is a good time to end this topic (because we could fix a major problem)": Write a short summary in here - then start a new topic with a short description "this is not working" - I will participate in the new topic.

To post-104: Good, You plug-in, toggle-on and the door coin coil activates and stays pulling. You then manually activate the E-Relay, it stays pulling, motor runs then the kicker kicks - all good. The following of the description in post-104 is not very pleasing because Just before the motor stops: E-Relay must quit pulling. The R-Relay should not start pulling on its own - most of all: The R-Relay shall never quits pulling - the R-Relay is the Hold-Relay that quits pulling when we do a SEVERE Tilt - You are nice and friendly to the pin so You never do a severe Tilt so the R-Relay should be pulling forever.

Further on in post-104 You write "but good news ..." and the end of Your post-104 is very pleasing. Can You reproduce Your test (manually activating the E-Relay) - do You always get the same, very pleasing results ?

You did not write - I Hope You do it every time: You have the Player-Unit in Home-Position is position-Zero, You plug-in, toggle-on the pin. You THEN manually activate the R-Relay and it stays pulling forever. You then manually activate the H-Relay and it stays pulling forever. You then manually reset the Control-Bank. Then You do tests (example of a test: Manually activating the E-Relay). Do this "crummy start-up" every time. Write about the R-Relay and the H-Relay - do they stay pulling forever ? Greetings Rolf

Hi Brian
lets proceed a bit in this topic - the "not pulling forever" of R-Relay and H-Relay is a rare fault - lets (try to) fix it - then maybe start a new topic.
The reason why You could actuate the E-Relay when the R-Relay (and the H-Relay) is not pulling:
The non-pulling H-Relay (among others) caused by "R-Relay quits pulling and so opens a switch (my red star in the JPG) to make the H-Relay non-pulling" - H-Relay controls a lot of playfield stuff --- when we bang a tilt: the playfield shall be dead - BUT when a ball happens to be in the #8-Hole - the ball must be kicked out and roll down into the Outhole for to resume "normal playing after the tilt" - so the E-Relay stuff is NOT controlled by the H-Relay.

To understand the drawing of switches in the schematics / JPG we must know how the schematics is drawn: A new Game has been started, after resetting - the ball has been kicked-over to the shooter-alley - NOW the pin is toggled OFF - so relays beeing steady pulling (R-Relay and H-Relay) quit pulling. Then the schematics is drawn. So when we are playing the pin the R-Relay is constantly pulling, Switch "my red star" and switches "my red two stars" are moved - OTHER than drawn in the schematics. (((Also all the switches on H-Relay are "other than shown" when we are playing.)))

Once activated the R-Relay MUST stay pulling forever. For troubleshooting look at the bottom of the JPG in post-103 - "Coil on R-Relay - wire-OR-WH - Lightbox-Tilt-Switch - wire-BL-WH - switch on R-Relay" - clean the two mentioned switches, look for broken-off wire.
(((When no luck in troubleshooting: We will use a permanent set Jumper-Wire "coil on R-Relay side wire-orange-white" connected to 24VAC, 10Amp fuse and make the R-Relay constantly pulling when the pin is toggled-on))) This is my last post for today, greetings Rolf

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Hi Brian
"You have changed a couple of wires in the pin ..." the way You work in Your pin makes me shiver. When I work on one of my pins: I only do what I must do - not more. I do many tests (using Jumper-Wires and Test-Lights) - only when I have proven "THERE is a fault": I then work (fix) ONLY there. Every time we do some work - chances are: We sneak-in an weird acting new fault - maybe with some strange interaction with other stuff in the pin. A simple example: We have lifted the playfield and we do some soldering*** somewhere - a drop of solder falls into the cabinet - falls on a motor-switch-blade and the adjacent switchblade - making faulty connection --- and the pin may act very strange. The pulling-in of the R-Relay for a second is a very nonpleasing mystery to me --- O.K., specific - among other, the R-Relay is in the pin for to start a new game after the previous game has ended ab-normal. So specific - the R-Relay we can force to stay pulling forever (using a permanent set Jumper-Wire) but You must put a paper on the apron telling: NEVER toggle-off the pin when there are still balls to play - ALWAYS play all the balls until You have reached "Game-Over".

One black wire or two black wires ? See the JPG, left is the schematics, drawn abstract, Relays are grouped by "stuff not controlled by switch on R-Relay" - "stuff not controlled by another relay-switch" ... on top of a schematics usually are shown the flipper-coils. The way the wires connect in the pin is other - grouped by "cabinet" - "playfield" - "backbox" - stuff sitting side by side in the schematics probably are far apart in the pin (one is in the cabinet - the other is in the backbox).
One black wire or two black wires ? - see on the right in the JPG: One Wire-Black hops from one coil to the next coil - when we just look at the solderlug on one coil we say: "I see two black wires".

soldering*** - I put an old towel over the bottom stuff in the cabinet when I want to solder on the lifted playfield --- to hinder "a drop of solder falls onto switchbades". Greetings Rolf

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Well said, rolf_martin_062 I upvoted your post.

A wise man once said "The opposite of good is better". I've done it both ways

1. Clean and adjust everything then fix the faults
2. Only fix what's broken and enjoy it

#1 seems to only be an option once you know how to do #2

Hi Brian
I do understand parts of post-113 - I do not understand other parts.
I understand: When I (You) toggle-on the pin then the Coin-Lockout-Coil on the does activate and stays pulling - good, it must do this.
I understand: The motor does not run when toggling-on - good - the motor is a helper for features that have subfeatures timed "one after the other" --- toggling-on does not need help of a turn of the motor.
I understand: I (You) can manually activate R-Relay, it stays pulling, hums a bit - good that it stays pulling, it must --- many relays hum a bit - AC-Current makes the humming.
I understand: Also the H-Relay ...

I point out: (complicated*** start) The "start-up" You must do is not a real start - we run into severe problems trying to do a real start - the start-up You must do (as kind of a work-around) is everytime You plug-in, toggle-on --- THEN You must manually activate the R-Relay (and it must stay pulling) - then You must manually activate the H-Relay (and it must stay pulling) - THEN You must manually reset the Control-Bank. Then You can do some playfield test / play a bit.

I do not understand: I (You) do not understand power source, orange-white-wire to Tilt-Switch - then blue-white-wire to S-Relay / R-Relay. Do You talk about "Coil on R-Relay" ? See bottom of the JPG in post-103 - one side of "Coil on R-Relay" has connection, wire-black to transformer (return-side) - the other "Coil on R-Relay" has the wiring - to Backbox- (Lightbox) -Slam-Tilt-Switch - to "Anti-Cheat-Switch (also a Slam-Tilt-Switch)" - on its way the wire is also soldered-on other places ("switch on S-Relay" / "switch*** on R-Relay") --- in the JPG from "Anti-Cheat-Switch" down to "Bounce-Switch (another Slam-Tilt-Switch)" - then through the fuse to transformer-HOT-side.
You learned about "Self-Hold-Switch on E-Relay". The R-Relay also have an Self-Hold-Switch - its the "switch*** on R-Relay" --- the reason why Gottlieb put the Lightbox-Tilt-Switch in the wiring: Not very clear - we are nice and friendly to the pin - we never beat the pin - in our pins the Slam-Tilt-Switches are always closed --- we can treat the schematics as if there was an connecting wire (in place where actually is an Slam-Tilt-Switch) - so we can say "R-Relay has its Self-Hold-Switch to feed forever the Coil on R-Relay".
Back to post-113, I do not understand: But one black wire leads to "Start-Lug on transformer", does not make logic to me (You) --- hmm, what is "Start-Lug on transformer" ? See on the bottom of the JPG in post-103: On the 24 / 25 VAC-side on the transformer are two lugs - one lug has soldered-on "Wire-Black" - this is Transformer-Return-side --- the other lug on the transformer has soldered-on wire-red running to the fuse - this is transformer-HOT-side.
It does not matter how many wires "black" are soldered-on on transformer-return-side - important is: ALL coils have on one side of the coil a wire-black to transformer-return-side.
You may have to use more / other words to explain what You do not understand.

The rest of post-113 I do not understand --- we have (talked of) "Coil on R-Relay", "Coil on H-Relay"^, motor running / not running --- switches on motor / relays / Slam-Tilt-Switches Transformer-Lugs - please write again - using other words - describing what You do not understand.

Please always do the "complicated start" before doing a test / playing. Greetings Rolf

Hi Brian and fellow pinsiders
I must come to an halt - I am german speaking - I am familiar with the european 220VAC and the swiss wire colors on 2-prong and 3-prong connecting cables on pins and other electrical stuff.
The pins imported into Switzerland are most of type I show in the JPG "0Orbit-Transformer" - can be changed 110 VAC --- 220VAC. I do not know about "USA - 110VAC".
Please, american pinsiders: Write here about the wiring (((I believe that on "my red G" the Safety-earthening-cable of a 3-prong main power cord can be attached (?) ))) - what is "C - Start" ? is it simply "wire-black on the secundary (24VAC and 6VAC) side" ?

Brian - If nobody answers You then must start a new topic (new topics are always interesting) asking about wiring (feel free to use my JPGs - I do not understand "Your connection to Start-Lug" --- You first must have Your transformer hooked-up "right" before we can proceed in trouble-shooting other problems --- Danger, 110VAC can kill people (also 24VAC, 6VAC can kill people). This is my last post for today, greetings Rolf

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Hi Brian
post-118 and post-119 have the same text - post-118 has a JPG, post-119 has no JPG - I address post-118.
Nice to read the good news in post-118 - You change orange-white-wire and blue-white-wire on the Backbox-Tilt-Switch ... R-Relay pulls-in, stays pulling. This is nice to read but it is a miracle to me - I must use plenty of fantasy to give an explanation for the behaviour of R-Relay.
See the JPG - my "1 2 3 4" --- the Lightbox Tilt Switch should be / must be always closed so on "1" the Coil on R-Relay gets current and therefore pulls. When we excange wires (see "2") the switch is also closed and the Coil on R-Relay gets current and pulls.
When the Lightbox Tilt Switch is faulty open (see "3"): No current can reach the coil --- no pulling.
And when we exchange the wires (see "4"): The Switch is still open - no current can reach the coil --- no pulling - BUT YOU write (post-118): Relay pulls. So I have questions: How many wires are soldered-on on blade-1 of the Lightbox Tilt Switch ? How many wires are soldered-on on blade-2 of the Lightbox Tilt Switch ? Is the Lightbox Tilt Switch mounted "sitting on a bare wire - having contact with this bare wire" ? At the time the R-Relay is (nicely) stay pulling": Does the S-Relay pulls at this time ?
I grumble about "You do not exactly what I asked You to do" --- a long time ago we were trying to fix the "starting a new game", we had problems so I said: Lets try to make the pin letting You play a ball --- so I didnt ask You to actuate the S-Relay as well as I didnt ask You to press the Start-Button - read in post-114 my "I point out ...".

The JPG in post-118 looks to me as "mech panel / bottom bord in the cabinet" --- I do not see the Lightbox Tilt Switch in the JPG. The color of wire You have Your fingers at: white-blue (((not blue-white))) - question: What Relays have this wire-white-blue ? soldered-on on switches ? or on the coil(s) ? I ask for the names of the relays.

Unfortunately no pinsider read my "cry for help (post-117)" --- I ask You: In the first JPG in post-117 - "my C", the text on the transformer "Start": Dou You have on Your transformer "just above my C": Do You have an Solder-Lug with wire-black ? maybe two wires-black ? And wire-black runs to solderlugs on coils ?
Another question - In the first JPG in post-117 - "my D": Do You have on Your transformer "just above my D": Do You have an Solder-Lug ? And a bit to the right in the JPG: Do You have another Solder-Lug ? What I wrote in the beginning of post-117 is still true. Greetings Rolf

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