Gottlieb ball played stepper adjustment - help needed! | EM Pinball Tech

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#1 4 years ago

OP

DAN

4Max

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 53,900 471

OK, so I'm struggling.

This is the back of the balls played stepper on the Hi Dolly I'm restoring - I've marked the step-up and reset solenoids.
Capture (resized).JPG

There are two issues, that I believe are probably related:

1. Game startup - where the stepper should reset to one position before first rivet, and then steps up one place to first rivet. Mine does not step up to first rivet. So I took a slow motion video, and I see that both solenoids activate, but the step up fires just before the reset. I'm guessing thats by design and somehow you can make adjustments on the stepper so that the reset goes in and out before the step-up goes back out (as they would indeed step up by one). Wow that's confusing I hope some smart pin person can make sense of that!

2. When the ball drains, the trough switch activates the step-up circuit. In one player mode, the step up fires twice, but my stepper only moves once. I used my handy "two-car-bulb-tester-thingy" on the step-up solenoid, and it does on indeed fire twice, but super quick. I figured this may have to do with the adjuster I circled in blue and perhaps tension of the long spring. I adjusted the blue one so the ratchet just falls into the next tooth which feels right, - but I cannot seem to get this double step to work.

The stepper overall feels like it moves pretty well, snaps back at reset, and steps-up smoothy when I operate both by hand. The two lever things on the shoulder bolts also seem to move pretty freely. I was hopoing not to completely dismantle this stepper, but I guess I can if the advice is that may be a contributing factor

Sorry for the long post - i should have been in bed hours ago but this thing is bugging the hell out of me

thanks

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#2 4 years ago

MDF

frenchmarky

Pinside member

Moreno Valley, CA

5y 79,800 3,109 7 30

According to the Gottlieb manual: The step up coil should be adjusted up or down so that the arm moves back one and one-half gear teeth before it releases. You want some over-travel there, you don't want it to just barely click back exactly one tooth. When that is adjusted correctly and tightened back up then you hold the plunger in and adjust the stop circled in blue against the step up arm. And the other stop circled in black should be adjusted just to the point that the reset lever comes to rest at base of the tooth. That spring looks kinda mangled too, it needs to be good and strong to return the step up arm quickly.

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#3 4 years ago

M

MarkG

Fun With Pinball

9y 71,300 4,364

OP
Quoted from 4Max:
I see that both solenoids activate, but the step up fires just before the reset. I'm guessing thats by design and somehow you can make adjustments on the stepper so that the reset goes in and out before the step-up goes back out (as they would indeed step up by one).

That doesn't sound right. From a design standpoint you probably don't want both solenoids on a stepper to fire together. Looking at the schematic I don't think that should happen in your game either:
Hi Dolly Balls Played unit (resized).jpg
The Add Balls Played solenoid should fire only when the BB/Change Players relay fires and that relay should only fire when the Trough switch closes.

The Reset Balls Played unit solenoid should only fire briefly during reset until it resets and the Zero Position switch opens.

I'd investigate why your Add Balls Played solenoid fires without the Trough switch.

/Mark

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#4 4 years ago

OP

DAN

4Max

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 53,900 471

Thanks frenchmarky I adjusted, and it fires twice from ball 1 to 2, but then just once from then. Hmm, right now I'm focusing on the second issue on Add Balls Played fires at startup.

MarkG (and everyone else )I am very confused! I thought the Gottlieb ball count stepper is designed to reset back so that its one position before the first rivet (1st rivet = player 1 ball 1) and therefore needs to additionally the Add Balls to get to rivet 1?

Either way, I cannot see on the schematic how my Add Balls is firing! I even removed the coil from the BB relay and put a piece of card between switch "1" below (i put cards between all the switches on BB to be sure). And still, when I coin the machine, the Add Balls fires (but before the Reset so I still do not get to 1st rivet)

This is driving me nuts!! I am hoping one of you smart folk will point out something stupid I'm missing!

Capture (resized).JPG

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2

#5 4 years ago

M

MarkG

Fun With Pinball

9y 71,300 4,364

OP
Quoted from 4Max:
I thought the Gottlieb ball count stepper is designed to reset back so that its one position before the first rivet (1st rivet = player 1 ball 1) and therefore needs to additionally the Add Balls to get to rivet 1?

I know that some later games with a ball return kicker behave this way. I don't know if that's true for this game. The schematic should show the game after reset at ball 1 player 1. If that's the case position 0 of the Ball Count should be player 1 ball 1 as shown on the schematic at about 14F. So a step up during reset might not be appropriate.

OP
Quoted from 4Max:
Either way, I cannot see on the schematic how my Add Balls is firing! I even removed the coil from the BB relay and put a piece of card between switch "1" below (i put cards between all the switches on BB to be sure). And still, when I coin the machine, the Add Balls fires (but before the Reset so I still do not get to 1st rivet)

If you block the BB switch in the Add Balls Played solenoid circuit and the solenoid still fires you have something else going on that may not be on the schematic like a short. Could the solder tabs be touching? Is there a solder blob somewhere? What happens if you block the normally closed XB switch next to it?

You could use your meter with the game unplugged to measure the resistance along the circuit. Start on the right side and clip your meter in to either side of the Score Motor 1A switch. Turn the motor slowly until you measure and ohm or less to indicate that the switch is closed. Then move one probe from the red-black wire to the black-red wire on the other side of the BB switch. You should see a high resistance until you close the BB switch when the resistance should drop to an ohm or less again. Keep moving one probe to the left to see if you can find where a switch opening and closing does not change the resistance.

Another approach is to pay close attention to which relays fire when the Add Balls Played solenoid fires. One of them may be firing the solenoid somehow.

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1

#6 4 years ago

FTP

fixintoplay

Pinside member

11y 63,050 651

I don't like the burn/ash residue on that stepper stack switch. From our viewing angle, it appears that one or two of those solder tabs could be touching (one is bent). Probably nothing, but worth a check -- visuals clues can often hint to a problem.

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#7 4 years ago

OP

DAN

4Max

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 53,900 471

MarkG thanks - I followed your steps (e.g. ABP did not fire when XB open), and once I started to troubleshoot I saw that a contact on 1A was touching 1B above! Man, I would never have noticed that unless I was looking close and using my meter to test that switch. Not only did that fix the ABP not firing at reset, it also fixed the double advance required four player 1! And yes, I had to adjust the stepper so that after reset it rests on first rivet.

Wow, that took some sweat, tears and bad language - but thank to you all, especially MarkG1

Gottlieb ball played stepper adjustment - help needed!

By 4Max

4 years ago

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