Hi Folks!
I've got a Gottlieb College Queens from 1969 that I'm working on. This is a 4 player, and this era of Gottlieb the multiplayers got a little strange for awhile.

Anways, I have a weird thing I can't quite figure out, figured I'd ask the experts. When I set it on 3 ball, the ball in play lights don't light up correctly. It'll play 3 balls, but doesn't light up 1,2,3 like it should on the apron. It lights up 2,2,3.

On my schematics, the only way the ball #1 light lights up, is through a 2x relay (score relay on the relay bank)... the problem is, when you set it to 3 ball, it immediately trips the 2x relay (so you get better scoring with ball #1 of 3 ball instead of ball #2 of 5 ball). So when you have it on 3 ball, it's impossible for the ball #1 light to light up.

Any help appreciated, I prefer even my EM's on 3 ball.

Works great on 5 ball, btw.

I took a couple pictures so people could see what I'm talking about. First is the schematic showing how Ball #1 lights up. The only way it can light up is if 2B hasn't tripped...

IMG_0030 (resized).JPG

So how does 2b trip? If it's set on 3 ball, it trips as soon as the game starts. This means ball #1 lights up as Ball #2, and Ball #2 lights up as ball #2, and ball #3 lights up as ball #3.

Somebody explain to me the error of my ways, they couldn't have possibly designed it like this

IMG_0031 (resized).JPG

Checked that, nothing is touching...

Everything on the machine has been serviced, the ball count unit steps up and resets back to home position really clean.

Checked that, it is, nothing moves unless the coil is stepped up.

I'm reading that exactly backwards from how you are, are you sure about that? It looks to me like when it's on 5 ball it's connected to the ball count unit and will trip on the second ball, but on 3 ball it's directly connected around the ball count unit... Hence my problem.

Ball #1 lights up as Ball #2, Ball #2 lights up as Ball #2, and Ball #3 lights up as Ball #3.

Yes, on Ball #1 of a 3 ball game, Ball #2 is lit on the apron, Rollover #3 is lit, and Rollover #4 is lit (because 2B has tripped when the game starts).

On Ball #2 of a 3 ball game, the ball count until steps up 4 times (to ball #2, player 1), and the same lights stay lit. Ball #2 on the apron, and rollovers #3 and 4 (since 2B stays tripped, it's on the relay bank).

On Ball #3 of a 3 ball game, the ball count unit steps up 4 times (to ball #3, player 1), and Ball #3 lights up on the apron (since 3b is now tripped). Rollovers #2 and #5 light up....

At the end of the ball, the game ends like it should.

Looking at the schematics, there's no way for 4b or 5b to trip in a 3 ball game, which means rollovers 1 and 6 never light... and the bottom blue targets never light either. Also on ball 5 of a 5 ball game (when 5b trips) you get all the top rollovers and everything on the playfield lit. Can't do that on 3 ball. So they actually make it much harder as a 3 ball game... and you can't get "Ball #1" to light on the apron.

Talking about crippling a game!

I'd love to see an Airport schematic to see if it was designed the same way....

I suppose I could remove the wire from the 3 ball jumper that makes 2b trip (it would still trip on ball #2) but after looking at how you can't get any of the good scores on 3 ball I'm just going to leave it on 5 ball. Never seen them make it a harder game with less features on 3ball, usually they step it up so you can get higher scores quicker...

Thank you for your help, Fred. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, the 2b trips as soon as the 1st ball of a 3ball game starts, it appears it's supposed to.

Those three are giving me 1pt on 5 ball, and 10pts on 3 ball.

It's almost like they stopped designing the 3 ball option halfway through