(Topic ID: 298633)

Gottlieb AX Relay

By Dsquared314

12 months ago

Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 16 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 12 months ago by Dsquared314
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders


Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

8B871739-14C0-4D6A-84DE-3DCB9E30B14F (resized).jpeg
68CC443B-38C2-47F9-BAA8-A5B836F9A6BE (resized).jpeg
C00C4797-6C4F-4D8E-81DA-A6F6DD9BFBD0 (resized).jpeg
30DD52A6-C8FF-4230-95FD-498A7DF17F69 (resized).jpeg
7D1FFB55-6269-4B67-8E88-34BEE53ABDA6 (resized).jpeg
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
IMG_2563 (resized).jpg
IMG_2562 (resized).jpg
IMG_2561 (resized).jpg
IMG_2560 (resized).jpg
IMG_2555 (resized).jpg

#1 12 months ago

I can not figure out why AX relay is not firing. put meter on them and get resistance. Check. The schematic and I saw two lines. One with AX reset (with coil drawing) and another with only AX (with coil drawing). Followed the open or close switch at specified relay. Check. I'm manually pressing S (start) relay and that should actuate AX relay but it is not. Where else can I trouble shoot?

IMG_2555 (resized).jpgIMG_2560 (resized).jpgIMG_2561 (resized).jpgIMG_2562 (resized).jpgIMG_2563 (resized).jpg
#2 12 months ago

If the AX coil on the Reset Control interlock relay doesn't activate,
Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires

Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156

pasted_image (resized).png
#3 12 months ago

HowardR all the switches on that line are open. If I gator clip it that essentially saying all those switches are closed. How does that help? Am I reading it wrong?

#4 12 months ago

The ax coil gets voltage on one side via the black wire that goes back to the transformer. It completes the circuit on the other coil wire through that series of switches, eventually getting to the red-white wire. The idea of the jumper is to bypass those switches to figure out which one isn’t doing its job.

Here are the steps that I would do.

Jumper from the red-white wire to the slate+red wire on the ax coil. If it doesn’t pull in, then either the black wire is not making a connection back to the transformer or the red-white wire isn’t connected to the transformer red wire via the counter switch.

If it did pull in, then I move to the brown+red wire on the make-break switch on the U relay. If that works, I move to the next switch. If it doesn’t, then I clean and adjust the switch until it works.

The process continues from switch to switch until it works. I also like to use the light bulb tester method that shows me the same thing. You take 2 12 volt car bulbs, solder a wire between them to put them in series, then solder 2 wires with clip leads on the ends. The same process is used as the jumper, but it visually shows you if you have voltage at each step.


#5 12 months ago

dgAmpGuy thank you. Makes more sense now.

#6 12 months ago

May someone help explain the color of wires going to the ax and q switches.

For q is it red+wh and red-yel or red-wh

image (resized).jpg
#7 12 months ago


May some one help me with firing (ball return) “O” coil. What’s the path on the schematic?

image (resized).jpg

#8 12 months ago
Quoted from Dsquared314:

May some one help me with firing (ball return) “O” coil. What’s the path on the schematic?

The first schematic below has 3 paths to activate the Ball Return relay (O), including the Ball Return switch
The second schematic below keeps the O relay locked on until the motor rotates 1/3 turn

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#9 12 months ago

HowardR thank you. improved my understanding about O relay locked on until the motor rotates 1/3 turn.
HowardR what about post #6

#10 12 months ago
Quoted from Dsquared314:

what about post #6

Quoted from Dsquared314:

For q is it red+wh and red-yel or red-wh

The normally closed switch on the Q relay you show in post 6 has a Red+White wire on one terminal and a Red-Yellow wire on the other.

#11 12 months ago

thanks HowardR

#12 12 months ago

How do I get the springness back in the plastic ladder. I test one that’s working properly and the ladder springs back when other ladder releases it. The spring is fine. I don’t know if the leafs are in correct slot or if all leafs need to be moved away from the coil?
Is there a rule for which slot for which switch?

I can take more pictures if needed
3 picture is ax and 1 is fx (working properly)

I believe this has been my start sequence issue to because ax is firing but the two plastic ladder interaction was not like the others. When I manually push it farther the motor continues and scores reels reset. I might of been holding down S relay too

7D1FFB55-6269-4B67-8E88-34BEE53ABDA6 (resized).jpeg

30DD52A6-C8FF-4230-95FD-498A7DF17F69 (resized).jpeg
C00C4797-6C4F-4D8E-81DA-A6F6DD9BFBD0 (resized).jpeg

68CC443B-38C2-47F9-BAA8-A5B836F9A6BE (resized).jpeg

#13 12 months ago

look at the video around 3:00 in.

the long blade tension is primarily what moves the lifter. The little spring doesn't have the force to do it.

people say "never adjust the moving/long blade" ... this is one of the exceptions.

afaik, if the switch is open when the armature is on the coil top, the long blade goes in the lower slot. Otherwise, it goes in the upper.

#14 12 months ago

Thank you. I’m not 100% on deciding upper and lower slot. Hopefully it’ll make more sense when I’m out there. And I’ll try to reference a good one. I see relays with switches as two columns and X rows. On the good one I remember the colinear row was sometimes offset with respect to each other

Quoted from baldtwit:

afaik, if the switch is open when the armature is on the coil top, the long blade goes in the lower slot. Otherwise, it goes in the upper.

#15 12 months ago

keep in mind the factory didn't have an army of switch adjusting gnomes ... when they assembled the switch stacks with new/straight blades, no adjustment was needed.

after lotsa use, the blades may curve, have some position memory or the contacts are worn, so adjust is needed.

if you have to bend the short blade way away from straight to make the switch do something, then likely the long blade is in the wrong slot.

#16 12 months ago

Learned a lot about the AX relay with this pin. Always tighten the long screws at the switches and listen for the right click with the 2 ladder trigger
Electronics is back to 90% last 10% is adjusting switches in the reels
Couldn’t wait to put the play field back together
I wasn’t happy about buying a whole plastic set from macros but it sure looks good

8B871739-14C0-4D6A-84DE-3DCB9E30B14F (resized).jpeg
Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 4.00
$ 3.00
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
From: $ 19.99
Cabinet - Other
The Pinball Scientist
1,000 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Saint Clairsville , OH
$ 5.95
Playfield - Protection
The Pinball Scientist
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
1,300 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Whitehouse Station, NJ
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu


Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, become a Pinside+ member!