(Topic ID: 178805)

Gottlieb Atlantis drop target bank reset

By EMsInKC

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 7 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by EMsInKC
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 7 years ago

My Atlantis has developed an issue with the target reset after all targets are dropped during a game.

When all targets are down, the game will score the last target (500 or 5000 if you drop white/blue for the last targets down) then scores 5000 and resets the targets.

Mine will score the drop target value properly, will score the 5000 but the bank just can't quite reset on the first shot, leading it to score an additional 5000, then it will reset. Sometimes it resets properly, sometimes it doesn't. The usual EM intermittent problem that drives us all crazy.

On the schematic, the G relay which is the bank reset relay activated by n/c switches on the C and D, a n/c 3D motor switch, and the switch on the bank itself that closes when all targets are down. There is a separate branch of the circuit which is a n/o G switch and a n/c motor 2B which appears to be a lock in circuit for the G relay itself.

I've cleaned and adjusted all of these switches, they are all correct. When I watch the sequence with the hood up, the G is trying to pull in but just can't quite get there, so it won't lock on and activate the big coils that pull in the bank reset mechanism.

The startup sequence, as noted, is correct and in any case, that's run off a motor 2C and isn't related to this process.

I've exhausted everything I know to do and check. Anyone see anything I'm missing here?

#2 7 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

My Atlantis has developed an issue with the target reset after all targets are dropped during a game.
When all targets are down, the game will score the last target (500 or 5000 if you drop white/blue for the last targets down) then scores 5000 and resets the targets.
Mine will score the drop target value properly, will score the 5000 but the bank just can't quite reset on the first shot, leading it to score an additional 5000, then it will reset. Sometimes it resets properly, sometimes it doesn't. The usual EM intermittent problem that drives us all crazy.
On the schematic, the G relay which is the bank reset relay activated by n/c switches on the C and D, a n/c 3D motor switch, and the switch on the bank itself that closes when all targets are down. There is a separate branch of the circuit which is a n/o G switch and a n/c motor 2B which appears to be a lock in circuit for the G relay itself.
I've cleaned and adjusted all of these switches, they are all correct. When I watch the sequence with the hood up, the G is trying to pull in but just can't quite get there, so it won't lock on and activate the big coils that pull in the bank reset mechanism.
The startup sequence, as noted, is correct and in any case, that's run off a motor 2C and isn't related to this process.
I've exhausted everything I know to do and check. Anyone see anything I'm missing here?

If I remember there are two solenoids on the bank, each with their own fuse? Check both fuses, I had a similar issue and one of the fuses was bad...

#3 7 years ago

If it's scoring an additional 5000, then C and D must both be pulling in for an additional score motor cycle, since that is the only way to score 5000 on this game.

As Pinhead52 says, check the reset solenoid fuses first.

I also seem to recall that this problem occurred on Atlantis due to a premature drop target bank reset pulse. You probably do want to check the score motor 2C switch stack to see if the switch that feeds power to the target bank reset coils is gapped too close. If it is, then what can happen is that as soon as the G relay pulls in, the bank reset coils energize. The score switches on the drop targets close as the drop targets are raised up slightly by the reset bar, which energizes the C and D relays again, which drops out the G relay, which shuts off the drop target reset solenoids. All of this happens very quickly.

- TimMe

#4 7 years ago
Quoted from TimMe:

If it's scoring an additional 5000, then C and D must both be pulling in for an additional score motor cycle, since that is the only way to score 5000 on this game.
As Pinhead52 says, check the reset solenoid fuses first.
I also seem to recall that this problem occurred on Atlantis due to a premature drop target bank reset pulse. You probably do want to check the score motor 2C switch stack to see if the switch that feeds power to the target bank reset coils is gapped too close. If it is, then what can happen is that as soon as the G relay pulls in, the bank reset coils energize. The score switches on the drop targets close as the drop targets are raised up slightly by the reset bar, which energizes the C and D relays again, which drops out the G relay, which shuts off the drop target reset solenoids. All of this happens very quickly.
- TimMe

Tim, I think you are on it here. If you watch the reset attempt from the top side, you can see the drop targets come up just a tad, and the 5000 insert flickers ever so slightly. The targets drop back down, the extra 5000 scores again, and then, usually on the second try, the reset occurs properly. The reset cannot happen until the C and D release because the switches on the C and D which feed the G relay are n/c and during scoring they open.

In addition, when I watch the reset process from the underside, you can see, as the scoring is on going, just a slight movement in the G activator plate. It's enough to get some juice to the bank reset coils, but not enough for the G to lock on and get full power to those coils, since they're the big coils that are running on 110v. It makes sense that the motor switch that is supposed to be used only on startup reset could cause this issue. I knew it was involved but it wasn't until you mentioned that premature pulse that it made sense what G was going prior to an actual full activation and reset.

I will check both fuses but I'm pretty sure that they're good, when it resets it's good and strong, but I'll start there and go on to 2C. I've checked everything else.

I'll let you both know what I find.

This is another of those issues that if you were playing on location and had it happen, you'd thank all the pinball Gods for the extra points. At home, you want it to work correctly. I messed with this for a couple hours yesterday, another hour today and finally I figured another brain or two on the issue is always a good thing.

#5 7 years ago

Update. Tim, as usual, you go to the head of the class. I checked 2C and while the gap wasn't really close, I widened it out just a touch anyway. I don't think it did any good but I also checked the switch on the S relay that has its part in the reset cycle for the target bank. That switch was a bit too close for comfort also so I widened it out a bit too.

Game function is now completely normal. The sequence even sounds a bit different from what it was doing before. Before there was kind of a muddled sound due to the small pulse the G relay was getting. Now there's three distinct sounds. The score from the target dropped, the 5000 point score, and the reset. Boom, boom, boom. I have dropped all the targets at least 15 times as a test and reset is normal every time, so I'm marking this one solved and also marking it up as yet another lesson learned.

Thanks to both Tim and Ken for helping me out. I think I know quite a bit but there's always guys who know more and the only way I'm ever going to know more is to ask when I get stumped.

#6 7 years ago

C'mon Scott. You can't declare the issue solved until you've thoroughly "play-tested" the game
It's a requirement. Sort of like a good auto mechanic road-testing a car after he's worked on it.
Have fun!

#7 7 years ago
Quoted from Runbikeskilee:

C'mon Scott. You can't declare the issue solved until you've thoroughly "play-tested" the game
It's a requirement. Sort of like a good auto mechanic road-testing a car after he's worked on it.
Have fun!

LOL, well, I did play about 5 games on it in addition to just manually dropping the targets.

Of course, having declared it solved, it will probably come back.

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