Volcano
Gottlieb, 1981Quoted from sparky672:I must have purchased the more expensive ones then. The Nichicon and Kemet I got from Mouser were rated 3,000 and 6,000 hours at 105°C.
3000 hours is about 18 weeks if left on 24/7
Lets say they were in an arcade for 12 hours a day when they were deployed new, they exceeded 3000 rated hours in 36 weeks.
Roughly 8 months.
Like I said, they are way beyond rated lifespan.
Quoted from gdonovan:3000 hours is about 18 weeks if left on 24/7. Lets say they were in an arcade for 12 hours a day when they were deployed new, they exceeded 3000 rated hours in 36 weeks.
Roughly 8 months.
More like 22 years.
You forgot all about the temperature rating - it's only 3,000 hours AT 105°C. Service life ratings are on a logarithmic temperature curve. The operating temperature of these caps is nowhere near 221°F, therefore 3,000 hours is really something like 100,000 hours at 131°F, which is 11 years 24/7, or 22 years using your 12-hr/day arcade example. And I doubt they ever see much of anything above 100-110°F, which adds even more years.
Quoted from gdonovan:Like I said, they are way beyond rated lifespan.
We agree on that, heavy arcade use depleted nearly every component, not just caps, of these machines decades ago, which is why my comments are focused on restoration and home-use. I believe the critical caps from 1981 should not be retained... but it's also interesting that there are zero caps on the "Mandatory parts list" on PinWiki for rebuilding the System 80 Power Supply.
Quoted from sparky672:More like 22 years.
You forgot all about the temperature rating - it's only 3,000 hours AT 105°C. Service life ratings are on a logarithmic temperature curve. The operating temperature of these caps is nowhere near 221°F, therefore 3,000 hours is really something like 100,000 hours at 131°F, which is 11 years 24/7, or 22 years using your 12-hr/day arcade example. And I doubt they ever see much of anything above 100-110°F, which adds even more years.
The DMD power supply in my X-Files ran in excess of 175F so cab temps could surprise you. I added a cooling fan to the cabinet, I didn't think those temps were conducive to good overall board health. Bally S&T 5v power regulators run hot too and that big honking heatsink on the power supply board isn't there for show.
And time drying the caps out is unavoidable and also shortens the life.
On Data East games the power supplies puke the caps all the time and rot out the traces and they are a decade newer than the stuff were discussing. The number of DE pins with replacement power boards is practically a running joke at this point. I rebuild the boards, Rottendog is dubious at best (I picked up a pin that had a bad RD board right out of the box and the owner sold it off in exasperation) and X-pin is a noisy board on some games.
Even at your best case, 22 years, anything older than 2000 is suspect.
Quoted from gdonovan:The DMD power supply in my X-Files ran in excess of 175F so cab temps could surprise you. I added a cooling fan to the cabinet, I didn't think those temps were conducive to good overall board health.
That seems really hot. However in this thread, we're talking about a Gottlieb System 80, and I never really analyzed the temps until now.
This is my main cap, the new one that replaced the "big orange"... about 97°F
The hottest components under the playfield are the transformers, each running about 115-118°F. Nothing else measures more than 83-98°F. This was after the game was left on for about 4 hours. Based on information and experience, I am not going to worry about putting hours on new capacitors. They will get replaced if/when they go bad.
Quoted from gdonovan:And time drying the caps out is unavoidable and also shortens the life.
No argument.
Quoted from gdonovan:Even at your best case, 22 years, anything older than 2000 is suspect.
For sure.
Quoted from sparky672:Based on information and experience, I am not going to worry about putting hours on new capacitors. They will get replaced if/when they go bad.
Which is reasonable, most of my recapping experience is on boards that have already failed or failing.
I recently recapped a Stern sound board + speech board trying to banish a persistent minor buzzing related to the controlled lamps in attract mode. Didn't really help it that much that I could tell so that wasn't it. BUT - the volume seemed fine before, but the recap did boost the maximum volume a *lot*. So didn't fix what I was shooting for but did fix what I didn't even realize was not up to par.
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