(Topic ID: 319593)

Gottlieb 4 Square - 0-9 Unit Issue?

By Megabozz

1 year ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 12 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Boatcat
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 1 year ago

Hi All,

I just recently purchased a 1971 Gottlieb 4 Square machine. To set the stage, I am a complete noobie with EM machines but do have some aptitude for basic electronics. Now that I have had the machine a few weeks, I'm starting to piece together how it is supposed to operate and have run across a few issues.

1. The 10 point and 100 point bumpers do not alternate lights. It generally sticks with the 10 point bumpers lit.
2. The 100 point bumper light does not work consistently if it does switch, and flickers when it does.
3. The game does not regularly advance scoring stages (by getting 1-4)

After running across the below Pinside post, I got a lesson in the alternating relay and the 0-9 matching unit in the head. After some inspection it is my suspicion that I probably have a malfunctioning and dirty 0-9 unit, but I'd like to get a second opinion and recommendations on the best next steps.

This video demonstrates the issue:

Pinside post that led me down this troubleshooting path:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-4-square-pop-bumper-question

Thanks!
Jake

#3 1 year ago

Hi Jake, Welcome to pinside!!

Looks like your 0-9 unit has a mechanical problem. Does it advance properly if you push the solenoid plunger into the coil?

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Hi Jake, Welcome to pinside!!
Looks like your 0-9 unit has a mechanical problem. Does it advance properly if you push the solenoid plunger into the coil?

Thank you for the welcome and reply! If I manually push the plunger, it does advance. I've taken a new video showing the current state and some of the other behavior:

-Jake

#5 1 year ago

Remove the coil bracket , remove coil, remove coil sleeve if possible. Clean coil sleeve and plunger and reassemble.

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballdaveh:

Remove the coil bracket , remove coil, remove coil sleeve if possible. Clean coil sleeve and plunger and reassemble.

Thanks!

I cleaned the sleeve and plunger (not very dirty at all) and found there was slight resistance in the plunger/sleeve relationship. I added a drop of Teflon oil and now the plunger moves as expected and the wheel advances. I took the top of the top wheel off the 0-9 unit and cleaned the contacts, but I'm still having an issue with the light on the 100 point pop bumper either not coming on, or flickering when it does. Since it kinda works sometimes, I'm assuming a dirty contact somewhere. Just need to figure out where it is.

#7 1 year ago

Go to thread “EM pinball online repair clinic”. This would be a good candidate for the upcoming session.

I suspect your issue is outside of the 0-9 unit. However, while there, run a scotch brite pad over the buttons and verify the wipers are pretty well centered on a button at each step. On my phone, it looks like the disc may be cranked over to one extreme, so the wipers may not be centered.

Also, I’m surprised nobody has screamed about using a lubricant. Basically, you’ve masked the problem. It will work for awhile, but then you will be back where you started. Most likely, your pivot points on the mechanisms are stiff. Look at videos on how to clean/repair/rebuild Gottlieb stepper units.

Let everyone know about your progress.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from Billc479:

On my phone, it looks like the disc may be cranked over to one extreme, so the wipers may not be centered.
Also, I’m surprised nobody has screamed about using a lubricant. Basically, you’ve masked the problem.

Thank you for the response and recommendation on the clinic, I'll look into that. The disk is cranked over, that is the position I received it in. I believe the wipers are all lined up, but will double check that as well. Over time they have created a groove in the bottom disk and pads, so they all follow the track so to speak.

I am interested in the no lubricant issue. The sleeve and plunger are both metal, are these intended to run dry?

#9 1 year ago

The plungers should be dry, no lube required, regardless of whether the sleeve is metal or nylon(plastic).

You should change out the sleeve with a plastic one due to less friction and the sleeve will last longer.

If you want to burn up time, search the site about lubricating coil sleeves. I think you will find the majority do not lubricate.

#10 1 year ago

One area you might check is the gear and shaft, lay the 0-9 unit over in the service position, you will see there is a gear and levers. Drive lever is activated by coil, it has a pivot that might need lub. There is a series of smaller levers and springs that you could check for binding and lub. The black gear that these levers sit around may need to be checked for binding and lub, the gear shaft passes through a metal boss that is fitted into the sheet metal frame, it has no lub fill point. Originally from the factory Gottlieb would have installed some lub but that could have long gone. In your video it shows the 0-9 unit stopping at a point in the cycle, does it stop/jam at the same point?. The coil sleeve will be brass and the plunger steel, l did notice the plunger looked brown'ish, perhaps polish the plunger.

2 weeks later
#11 1 year ago

Just wanted to come back to close out this thread and detail the outcome.

I cleaned/polished the sleeve and plunger again to remove any lubricant, and as of now, the 0-9 unit is working like a champ. All game features are working as they should.

The flickering pop bumper light turned out to be completely unrelated. I looked everywhere and then finally realized the ground side of the lamp socked had a really poor solder job from a previous repair. The lamp socket had also lost its spring tension, so the bulb wasn't at tight as it should be. I removed the pop bumper and soldered some new wire on, adjusted the lamp socket, and now it works like a champ. The lesson learned was to start with the easy stuff first.

Thanks again to everyone that replied and helped me get on the right track.

-Jake

#12 1 year ago

Hey, Jake,

Just wondering.......... The 0-9 unit solenoid gets energized from the 10 point relay, (in the head). Did you check those switches? Probably 4 switches there. 1 switch for score reel solenoid, 1 switch for score reel solenoid end-of-stroke, (to release the 10 point relay), 1 switch for the chime, and 1 switch for the 0-9 unit. Take a small screwdriver, find the 10 point relay and short each switch 1 at a time to find the switch operating the 0-9. Clean and adjust.

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