(Topic ID: 217393)

Help needed - Getting a Fast Draw back to life

By PhilGreg

5 years ago


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  • 41 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by PhilGreg
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#10 5 years ago

Hi PhilGreg, currieddog +
maybe this JPG is of help (?) - greetings Rolf

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#16 5 years ago

Hi PhilGreg
in my JPG the "blue stuff" probably is obsolete --- or we may talk about later. You toggle-on Your pin and The Q-Relay MUST pull-in and the U-Relay MUST pull-in. You then start for a new game - the S-Relay must pull-in - the motor must start running - the AX-Relay must pull-in --- this closes "encircled-green switch" - the H-Relay MUST pull-in - and the H-Relay actuates its switches - the "encircled green" switch moves - H-Relay now MUST stay pulling (as it has established Self-Hold-Circuitry).
You may try: Toggle-on - start a new game - then use an wooden stick - hurry - YOU press the armature on the H-Relay - does it stays pulling ? And what happens then ? Greetings Rolf

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#20 5 years ago

Hi PhilGreg
You should write more details - what is "stuck at player-1-Ball-1" ? You start a game - the pin resets and kicks-out player-1-ball-1 --- You play and make points and bonus - You loose the ball - AND NOW - AAA - does the ball just lay in the Outhole and thats it ? or BBB "bonus is counted playfield-stuff is resetted and then the ball is kicked out - unfortunately (again) as player-1-ball-1" ?

In Gottlieb pins it is important that the ball kicked out really rolls over - under the apron - rolls over and closes the "trough-switch" - the P-Add-Player-Unit-RELAY then is made to pull and the stepping to next player / next ball happens NOW (AFTER the ball has rolled over the Trough-Switch). Here http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2459&picno=46683 in the upper right corner we see the Trough-Switch - a wire is bent - formed - the ball rolls on the playfield and the switch under the playfield does close. So when we have the playfield liftet for testing .... we simulate playing -loosing the ball - bouns counts down - Outhole-Kicker fires AND NOW WE MUST CLOSE the Trough-Switch when the ball does not close it.

Please write - do You have the AAA or the BBB - we then do look at the JPG. Greetings Rolf

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3 weeks later
#25 5 years ago

Hi PhilGreg
see the JPG - from inside towards outside on the motor in Your pin: The second switch on position motor-1C --- does it truely open when the motor runs ? Greetings Rolf

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#27 5 years ago

Hi PhilGreg
here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/shangri-la-awarding-game-match-with-wrong-number-lights#post-4451458 see the JPG --- 12 + 12 equals 24 --- I like SteveFury 's Test-Light (made of two 12-Volt-car-bulbs) he shows here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reading-gottlieb-schematics#post-2634425 .

Unplug Your pin (Safety Reasons) - see the JPG here - some of the connecting wires I drew "red" - and I marked "yellow" some "clip-on points" --- look for a relay - its coil has on one side soldered-on (two) wire-color-black --- clip-on the Test-Light. Then may want to use the "Ball-Return-Switch (easy accessible) - side wire-color-YEL-BLK is soldered-on" - clip-on. Then plug-in, toggle-on, start a game --- Your Test-Light must be lit when the motor is NOT turning - and the Test-Light must turn-off when the motor is turning ? With this Test we check "Does the motor-1C-Switch truely opens ?". Greetings Rolf

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#28 5 years ago

Hi PhilGreg
we believe the resetting the Drop-Targets does close a switch and this makes the J-Relay to pull-in. What happens when You play a ball - NO Drop-Target drops - then You loose the ball - do You get "Your fault" ? --- IF (if, if) "No" - play the next ball and only make ONE Target to drop - then loose the ball --- some work to do --- then make another one to drop - then loose the ball ...
Work through every Drop-Target - each "alone dropped" --- learn "are we looking at the right place ?". Greetings Rolf

#30 5 years ago

Hi PhilGreg
in Switzerland it is 23:40 (hour) - late, I must go to sleep. Some people like meters / DMM - some like Jumper-Wires and Test-Lights. I hope I will read tomorrow about "Your findings". Greetings Rolf
P.S.: Yes, maybe a shortage somewhere --- these are the bad faults - we cannot see them in the schematics (stuff mounted close together in reality in the pin very often is far apart in the schematics).

#37 5 years ago

Hi PhilGreg
I would like "another pinsider HAVING an Fast Draw to answer Your question in Your post-35" --- (it is me - its my problem: I usually can say: Yes - I see a picture).

The original problem is "You get points added when the ball rolls over to the shooter alley - making the P-Add-Player-Unit-Relay to pull - making the Player-Unit to step" we believe "the J-Relay faulty pulls-in - caused by a problem on motor-1C-Switch" --- is this true ?

"Work-Arounds are 2nd, 3rd choice" - fixing is much better - I would like You to do an test that maybe (non-pleasing) may end as an Work-Around. See the JPG - cut the short wire (probably color-SL+WH) connecting one side of the coil to "Switch mounted on the Relay" - cut or unsolder - and sneak-in two looooong Jumper-Wires - the ends coming out of the open Coin-Door. Clip the two ends together - play --- You then say "its time to loose the ball" - before loosing the ball: You disconnect the clipped-together Jumpers - You open the connection - the J-Relay cannot pull-in --- You loose the ball - and, question: Has Your original problem vanished --- or is it still present ?

"Problem is still present" means: We look on a wrong portion of schematics ---
"Problem has vanished": You may want to consider: "Adding a new, added-switch on the P-Add-Player-Unit-Relay - switch open when P-Relay is pulling" - You make Yourself an "Work-Around" (?). Greetings Rolf

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#40 5 years ago

Hi PhilGreg
Great - You found the cause of the fault and You fixed it. Thanks for "post-39, pictures and explanation".
When the last issue is "mechanical problem": I cannot help. Greetings Rolf

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