(Topic ID: 319585)

Gottlieb “300” won’t advance ball count

By Redcloud

1 year ago



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  • 9 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by paulace
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    300 M relay circuit (resized).JPG
    300 rollover scoring F & G relays (resized).JPG
    300 PU circuit (resized).jpg

    #1 1 year ago

    I’ve been trying to bring this “300” back to life and this baby is giving me fits! It is my first shot at a multiple player game. I’ve cleaned all of the score reels, disassembled the player unit and thoroughly cleaned everything on it, resoldered a few loose wires. Finally got it to go through the start up sequence and eject a ball. Now, none of the lit rollovers score do anything and the ball count is always on one. If I manually advance the player unit, it will go to player2, player3 and player4…then it will go to player1, second ball. I’ll start with these issues as there are others…lol

    #2 1 year ago

    There's a switch in the ball trough that advances the player/ball count. You may need to clean or adjust that switch.

    #3 1 year ago

    If you're getting through the score reset, but not any farther, look at the part of the player unit circuit in red below. The trough switch Scott mentioned turns on the P relay, but all the other switches in red need to be working as well. (I've left out the player unit itself for now since you mentioned that you worked on that, but it's a potential for the problem as well.)

    300 PU circuit (resized).jpg300 PU circuit (resized).jpg
    #4 1 year ago

    Does anything score other than the rollovers? Pops? Kickout holes up top? Stand-up targets? If you can score some points, then let the ball drain, does the ball/player count advance?

    #5 1 year ago

    #paulace……it scores on the pop bumpers, all rollovers that ARENT lit, kick out holes and sling shots.it will Not give you an extra game if the special is lit, either.
    Thanks in advance for all help ScottThePhotog and Paul ace!

    #6 1 year ago

    If you're scoring points, see if the U relay is pulling in after you score some. One of the switches in that player unit path is on the U relay.

    #7 1 year ago

    That issue of the lit rollover not scoring is something other than the player unit. Do the lights under the rollovers alternate as they should? Just trying to see if the A (alternating) relay is working. If the A relay seems to be working correctly, clean and gap the switches on it. If the unlit rollovers still aren't scoring, you might have to look into the paths from those rollover to the F or G relays that do the scoring for them.

    It's probably good to just think about 1 problem at a time...more than 1 can be overwhelming and/or confusing. It sounds to me like you have 2 separate problems - the player unit not stepping when it should, and the scoring on unlit rollovers only. I don't think they're related, but we'll see.

    #8 1 year ago

    #paulace…..once again thank you for your guidance! The lights under the rollovers DO alternate. The lit ones will not score but the unlit ones do.
    I’ve only been at this for almost one year so I’ve got a lot to learn. Still not real comfortable with understanding the schematics,….I’m trying. I’m not afraid to do the work just have trouble diagnosing. I will try all of your excellent suggestions and keep you posted.
    Thanks again for your help!

    #9 1 year ago

    I've only been messing with pinball machines for about 4 years, but I've learned alot in this forum asking questions of some pretty smart people here. And I learn alot trying to help people, thinking my way through the schematics. Hopefully, I won't lead you astray, but if I do, there are people watching this who are better than I am at repair, and they'll step in and correct me.

    OK, so let's talk about that scoring problem with the lit vs. unlit rollovers. I don't have your machine, so I'm trying to figure out the rules from the schematic, but hopefully this will make sense. This first schematic snippet below shows the 2 relays that give you different scoring when your rollovers are lit or unlit. They are the F and G relays - they both give you 500 pts., but the G relay (as its name implies) adds to your bonus as well. Which rollover activates which relay is determined by a few other relays, but let's look at the A relay for now.

    The A relay is the alternating relay and you can see in this part of the schematic, there are 2 m/b A switches that control which relay (F or G) the right side rollover #1 through #6 activate. The A relay is either activated or not at any given time, and the switches on it (labeled A on the schematic) change states when the A relay activates or deactivates. So those 2 m/b A switches are in one state - let's say the state they are when the schematic is drawn. If the A relay then changes states, so do it's 2 switches that you see below.

    So in the snippet below, as it's drawn, if you'll follow the red path, the #1, #4 and #5 right side rollovers when closed will complete a connection through the normally-closed (n/c) Motor 1C switch in the bottom right of the snippet, through the closed side of the m/b A switch, through the n/c K and O switches, and energizes the G relay for 500 pts and an added bonus. I've traced this path in red. I'm going to assume that as the schematic is drawn, the #1, #4 and #5 rollovers are lit - because you're supposed to get a bonus.

    At the same time, along the green path, the #2, #3 and #6 right side rollovers when closed will complete a connection through the same n/c Motor 1C switch, through the closed side of their m/b A switch and through the F relay, activating it, and give you just 500 pts. No bonus on that one....so I assume those rollovers must be unlit.

    By the way, in another part of the circuit, the A relay is controlling which rollovers are lit, and which are not.

    300 rollover scoring F & G relays (resized).JPG300 rollover scoring F & G relays (resized).JPG

    The F and G relays don't actually add the 500 pts. - they just provide a path to allow that to happen when they activate and close a switch. That part happens in the snippet below:

    300 M relay circuit (resized).JPG300 M relay circuit (resized).JPG

    The M relay is what fires the 100 pt score reel, so in this part of the circuit, the F or G relay firing, closes a switch to start the score motor turning, which makes the Motor 1A switch close and open 5 times (think of it as 5 pulses), and those pulses make it through whichever switch (F or G) is closed, firing the M relay, and thus the 100 pt score reel, 5 times for 500 pts.

    So your problem, if I understand it correctly, is that the lit rollovers are not scoring. That sounds like either the G relay isn't firing, or if it is, the switches on it aren't all working correctly. We'll have to figure out what's going on. A good place to start would be to observe whether or not the G relay is pulling in when you close a lit rollover switch.

    The unlit rollovers are scoring, so we know the Motor 1C switch in the first snippet must be closed since that switch is shared by both F and G relays. So that leaves you the possibility that the A m/b switch, the O or the K switches are not working as they're supposed to. Or your G relay could be no good - that's less likely, but still possible.

    Use the wire colors to identify whatever switches you're looking for. Good luck!

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