(Topic ID: 194500)

Gottlieb 300 - Basket case


By WhiskeyTango

2 years ago



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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by D-Gottlieb
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#51 2 years ago

The game is "motoring out" as they call it. Fighting to complete the startup sequence but failing some where. Check out the start-up sequence on Clay's site for 1975 and later Gottlieb.
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#start

#52 2 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Do not get angry - a "mild reproach / animadvert" --- I suggested to (pin is toggled-off) manually step the Player-Unit to Home-Position AND THEN some steps more (1 or 2 or 3 ... 7 ... less than 18). The reason for this suggestion was / is: Sometimes / rare there is a minor fault in the pin --- starting a NEW game when the pin is in Home-Position: In This situation the pin does not start the new game. I want to be kind and helpful to the pin so I manually step a couple of steps beyond Home-Position - then I toggle-on and start a new game.

I'm definitely not angry, Rolf and I'm happy for the assistance.

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

I also would like to say "hooray" - but Your "pin goes completely around" irritates me a bit. Please toggle-off the pin - manually put some points on a Score-Drum of Player-1 --- maybe 100 or 200 points on the hundreds drum - or 1000 or 2000 points on the thousands drum - toggle-on and start a game --- big question: Does the pin acts "normal as we are used" - the Score-Drums will reset and then the pin steps further to Home-Position - and then the Score-Motor stops ? If so we then can say "The start-up / reset" is working --- and we can start having a look on "Why is the Ball not kicked over to the Shooter Alley ?".

When I added a score to Player one, it will clear the score, but it will not advance past the point where the 1st & 2nd Player Reset Relay(Z1) is active.
Player Unit - Stop Position BACK (resized).JPG
If I manually advance the Player Unit ONE time it will resume and stop when it hits HOME Position.

Since adding the score to Player One, the Player Unit always stops on the 1st & 2nd Player Reset Relay(Z1). Player one and two have 2 bad EOS switches in the reels that I've identified and jumpered. It might be possible I have more and haven't found them.

I'm starting to wonder if someone took the player unit apart and did not put it back together properly aligned.

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Problem "GI is flashing": When the Tilt-Relay faulty pulls-in: This cuts the Self-feeding of the H-Tilt-Hold-Relay-Coil and as the H-Relay now let go it opens its switches that feed the playfield- and other lights.
Please unsolder the wire orange-white-red away from the "Coil of T-Tilt-Relay" so the T-Relay cannot pull-in --- then do testing - starting a new game - WHAT happens. Greetings Rolf
P.S.: The little trick of unsoldering the wire orange-white-red away from the "Coil of T-Tilt-Relay so the T-Relay cannot pull-in": It is easy to be done --- and later on "easy to solder-on the wire again".

I have what appear to be a Red-Blue and Yellow-Blue wires on my Tilt Relay.
IMG_3944 (resized).jpg

#53 2 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

The game is "motoring out" as they call it. Fighting to complete the startup sequence but failing some where. Check out the start-up sequence on Clay's site for 1975 and later Gottlieb.
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#start

Thanks. I'm using one for the 300 someone put together.

#54 2 years ago

Hi WhiskeyTango
thanks for post-52 and the pictures in the post. We must come back to this post (stepping on the Player-Unit) --- but now - for the moment the T-Tilt-Relay: The colors (You mentioned) of the two wires are "almost right" - the colors of these wires in the schematics are called Red-Black and Yellow-Black. See the first JPG in post-47, at "my green-number-1" --- BUT these are wires on the SWITCH on T-Relay. I was writing about wire-color-orange-white-red - soldered-on at one lug of the COIL / of the elektro-magnet in this T-Tilt-Relay.
In Your picture I see on one side of the COIL two wires-color-black - the other lug on the coil has wire-color-orange-white-red --- THIS wire to be unsoldered --- by that unsoldering: The COIL can not get current and therefore cannot get magnetic - can not pull --- as we want this COIL to never pull. Greetings Rolf

P.S.: Your National Holiday is the fourth of July --- in Switzerland we have the first of August --- and it is almost over - we have past hour 23:15 - time for me to go to sleep - till tomorrow.

#55 2 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi WhiskeyTango
thanks for post-52 and the pictures in the post. We must come back to this post (stepping on the Player-Unit) --- but now - for the moment the T-Tilt-Relay: The colors (You mentioned) of the two wires are "almost right" - the colors of these wires in the schematics are called Red-Black and Yellow-Black. See the first JPG in post-47, at "my green-number-1" --- BUT these are wires on the SWITCH on T-Relay. I was writing about wire-color-orange-white-red - soldered-on at one lug of the COIL / of the elektro-magnet in this T-Tilt-Relay.
In Your picture I see on one side of the COIL two wires-color-black - the other lug on the coil has wire-color-orange-white-red --- THIS wire to be unsoldered --- by that unsoldering: The COIL can not get current and therefore cannot get magnetic - can not pull --- as we want this COIL to never pull. Greetings Rolf
P.S.: Your National Holiday is the fourth of July --- in Switzerland we have the first of August --- and it is almost over - we have past hour 23:15 - time for me to go to sleep - till tomorrow.

I desoldered the wire as directed.

I also found another bad EOS switch in the player two score reel and jumpered it. This allowed the Player Unit to finish it's reset and return to HOME Position.

The behavior has changed a little bit

Current State:
- Power on the pin, most of the back glass lighting comes up and the GI is off.
- Coin up and start a game.
- Score Motor kicks on and Player Unit completes full rotation and returns to the HOME Position.
- No ball kicks, GI keeps flashing and score motor is running. This only happens when there is a ball in the trough.
- Lift the playfield and I see the Ball Return Relay(O) activating & de-activating, in line with the flashing. This is rhythmic and seems to be about once a second.

Cheers,

-Shaun

#56 2 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

You know I didn't have a schematic to work with. I usually like the shotgun approach. Go through clean and adjust everything properly and it should work. That usually gets you close but you also discover things with that strategy. I found a disconnected wire on the AX and thought that would do it but there was more going on. I seem to remember the "O" relay and the AX being a combined problem with my start sequence.
What helped me most was reading a couple troubleshooting posts related to the start-up sequence for 300 on RGP. I think someone had a similar problem as I did. Posted by the late great Al Garber if I remember correctly.
Guys willing to help with a schematic can usually get you narrowed down to specific areas to focus on. That helps a lot if you want to fast-track it.

The O relay seems to be flickering on and off. Any guidance on what you did in your situation?

#58 2 years ago
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:

The O relay seems to be flickering on and off.

Here's the circuit that energizes the O (Ball Return) relay. A likely suspect is the anti-cheat switch which is probably on the bottom board.

Pinball (resized).png

#59 2 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Here's the circuit that energizes the O (Ball Return) relay. A likely suspect is the anti-cheat switch which is probably on the bottom board.

Cool. Do you have any idea where it's located under the playfield? I'm assuming it's not the Tilt Switch in the middle of the playfield.

#60 2 years ago

Hi Shaun
this post is not really about troubleshooting - I stick to the problem "faults on Score-Drums may hinder the pin to make it through the Start-up procedure" --- some loud thinking of me - You may think of doing some of the described jumperings.

On top, left of the JPG I show (my words) "simple jumpering" and "de luxe jumpering". The simple jumpering is ONE Jumper-Wire making an wanted connection --- permanent connection. This works fine in many situations --- but maybe the problem is tricky and we want to be part of the logic - helping the pin - at a specific time we do for a short period of time "Connection" --- then we cut the connection. So the "de luxe jumpering": I take TWO long Jumper-Wires - I take the free end of both wires through the open Coin-Door out into the open --- at the time I want connection: I hold one wire on the insulation --- I hold the other wire at the insulation - and I tip together the two blank ends.
A "super de luxe jumpering" is: I mount an door-bell type push-button - and I comfortably just push my doorbell pushbutton.

Different Jumperings - the 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8:
I may say "I am not interested in the Score-Drums to fully reset - I take what I get - BUT I want the Player-Unit to step to Home-Position, So I establish the permanent jumper "1".
I may say "I am not interested in the Score-Drums to fully reset - I take what I get - BUT I want the Player-Unit to step to Home-Position, So I establish the permanent jumper "2".
Whats the difference in "1" and "2" ? They are almost the same - the difference is: When doing "1" I also jumper the connecting "wire of color brown-white-red" --- doing "2" I use the original wire "wire of color brown-white-red" in the pin --- IF (if, if) I do once the "1" and then the "2" and I get different results: I am told: There is a problem in the pin in that "connecting wire of color brown-white-red".

I may say "I am not interested in the Score-Drums of Player-2 - I am only interested in the Score-Drums of Player-1 (and then later Player-3 and Player-4)" --- so I establish the "3" or the "4".
Whats the difference in "3" and "4" ? It is the same difference as in "1" and "2" - the connecting wire (here of color white-slate).

I may say "I am not interested in the Score-Drums of Player-2 - I am only interested in the Score-Drum of Player-1 (and then later Player-3 and Player-4) --- ONLY Score-Drum 'the 10000's Score-Drum of Player-1". So I establish jumpering "5".

I may say "I do all or some of the jumpering "6" and or "7" " --- I can get informations on the connecting wires in the pin I can get infrmaion of a specific switch I just have jumpered.

A question - when I do the jumpering "8" --- WHAT is the difference to "doing the '4' " ?
Well - maybe in the pin there is a fault in the connecting wire color-black-white-red - connecting to SWITCH on the Z1-Relay --- doing once the "4" and later the "8" and I get different results: This tells me about this connceting wire.

When the pin is early in the Start-up procedure - has not yet reached position-20 (on the Player-Unit): The not-yet pulling Z1- and Z2-Relays therefore have the switches closed --- along my "red wiring" the Score-Drums-Switches (ALL) are bypassed --- the Player-Unit steps and steps and steps caused by the pulsing Score-Motor-Switch-1A. THEN The Player-Unit reaches position-20 (marked brown) - Z1-Relay pulls-in and opens its switch - NOW the Score-Drums of Player-1 and Player-2 must step forward to Zero so ALL their switches close --- current can pass - Add-Player-Unit-Coil fires - the Unit steps a step forward to position-21 and the stuff with Player-3 and Player-4 Score-Drums is taking place. And after that is done: "Z1- and Z2-Switches" are both closed again --- happily / rapidly stepping to Player-Unit-HOME-Position.
Greetings Rolf

0Gtb-300-Work-07c (resized).jpg

#61 2 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi Shaun
this post is not really about troubleshooting - I stick to the problem "faults on Score-Drums may hinder the pin to make it through the Start-up procedure" --- some loud thinking of me - You may think of doing some of the described jumperings.
On top, left of the JPG I show (my words) "simple jumpering" and "de luxe jumpering". The simple jumpering is ONE Jumper-Wire making an wanted connection --- permanent connection. This works fine in many situations --- but maybe the problem is tricky and we want to be part of the logic - helping the pin - at a specific time we do for a short period of time "Connection" --- then we cut the connection. So the "de luxe jumpering": I take TWO long Jumper-Wires - I take the free end of both wires through the open Coin-Door out into the open --- at the time I want connection: I hold one wire on the insulation --- I hold the other wire at the insulation - and I tip together the two blank ends.
A "super de luxe jumpering" is: I mount an door-bell type push-button - and I comfortably just push my doorbell pushbutton.
Different Jumperings - the 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8:
I may say "I am not interested in the Score-Drums to fully reset - I take what I get - BUT I want the Player-Unit to step to Home-Position, So I establish the permanent jumper "1".
I may say "I am not interested in the Score-Drums to fully reset - I take what I get - BUT I want the Player-Unit to step to Home-Position, So I establish the permanent jumper "2".
Whats the difference in "1" and "2" ? They are almost the same - the difference is: When doing "1" I also jumper the connecting "wire of color brown-white-red" --- doing "2" I use the original wire "wire of color brown-white-red" in the pin --- IF (if, if) I do once the "1" and then the "2" and I get different results: I am told: There is a problem in the pin in that "connecting wire of color brown-white-red".
I may say "I am not interested in the Score-Drums of Player-2 - I am only interested in the Score-Drums of Player-1 (and then later Player-3 and Player-4)" --- so I establish the "3" or the "4".
Whats the difference in "3" and "4" ? It is the same difference as in "1" and "2" - the connecting wire (here of color white-slate).
I may say "I am not interested in the Score-Drums of Player-2 - I am only interested in the Score-Drum of Player-1 (and then later Player-3 and Player-4) --- ONLY Score-Drum 'the 10000's Score-Drum of Player-1". So I establish jumpering "5".
I may say "I do all or some of the jumpering "6" and or "7" " --- I can get informations on the connecting wires in the pin I can get infrmaion of a specific switch I just have jumpered.
A question - when I do the jumpering "8" --- WHAT is the difference to "doing the '4' " ?
Well - maybe in the pin there is a fault in the connecting wire color-black-white-red - connecting to SWITCH on the Z1-Relay --- doing once the "4" and later the "8" and I get different results: This tells me about this connceting wire.
When the pin is early in the Start-up procedure - has not yet reached position-20 (on the Player-Unit): The not-yet pulling Z1- and Z2-Relays therefore have the switches closed --- along my "red wiring" the Score-Drums-Switches (ALL) are bypassed --- the Player-Unit steps and steps and steps caused by the pulsing Score-Motor-Switch-1A. THEN The Player-Unit reaches position-20 (marked brown) - Z1-Relay pulls-in and opens its switch - NOW the Score-Drums of Player-1 and Player-2 must step forward to Zero so ALL their switches close --- current can pass - Add-Player-Unit-Coil fires - the Unit steps a step forward to position-21 and the stuff with Player-3 and Player-4 Score-Drums is taking place. And after that is done: "Z1- and Z2-Switches" are both closed again --- happily / rapidly stepping to Player-Unit-HOME-Position.
Greetings Rolf

Hey Rolf. I'm a little confused. The Player Unit completes full rotation, reset scores and returns to the HOME Position. Should I be still looking at doing the afore mentioned jumper-ing? My issue with the Z1 relay was i had a broken EOS switch on a player 2 score reel that I had not jumpered. Once I did, the player unit returns the the HOME Position.

Current State:
- Power on the pin, most of the back glass lighting comes up and the GI is off.
- Coin up and start a game.
- Score Motor kicks on and Player Unit completes full rotation and returns to the HOME Position.
- No ball kicks, GI keeps flashing and score motor is running. This only happens when there is a ball in the trough.
- Lift the playfield and I see the Ball Return Relay(O) activating & de-activating, in line with the flashing. This is rhythmic and seems to be about once a second.

Thanks for all your help,

-Shaun

#62 2 years ago

Hi Shaun
that kind of Time-Gap between Europe and the USA somtimes is awful - by now in Europe we have just 15 minutes past midnight ...
Just very short: HowardR is working with You on the Problem of O-Relay --- so it is better when I stay out --- with my post-60 I just wanted to show "techniques using a Jumper-Wire" --- You may buy another pin and another and another --- the use of Jumper-Wires is VERY helpful --- a) we must have an schematics, b) we must study the schematics and say "I want to test this", c) exactly do this test, d) analyze the result, e) maybe do a slightly different testing (think of the post-60 "1" and "2", "4" and "8". Greetings Rolf

#63 2 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi Shaun
that kind of Time-Gap between Europe and the USA somtimes is awful - by now in Europe we have just 15 minutes past midnight ...
Just very short: HowardR is working with You on the Problem of O-Relay --- so it is better when I stay out --- with my post-60 I just wanted to show "techniques using a Jumper-Wire" --- You may buy another pin and another and another --- the use of Jumper-Wires is VERY helpful --- a) we must have an schematics, b) we must study the schematics and say "I want to test this", c) exactly do this test, d) analyze the result, e) maybe do a slightly different testing (think of the post-60 "1" and "2", "4" and "8". Greetings Rolf

Ah. I get. Thanks a lot Rolf. I’ll definitely be using your methods for other pins in the future.

-Shaun

#64 2 years ago

The EOS switch on a decagon score reel is not necessary for proper operation. The events that trigger the score reel end quickly enough anyway. If you have jumpered it closed than you have introduced another issue.

#65 2 years ago
Quoted from D-Gottlieb:

The EOS switch on a decagon score reel is not necessary for proper operation. The events that trigger the score reel end quickly enough anyway. If you have jumpered it closed than you have introduced another issue.

Alrighty. Can you elaborate? It seems odd that it would work as soon as the bad switches were jumpered. What should I be looking for?

#66 2 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Here's the circuit that energizes the O (Ball Return) relay. A likely suspect is the anti-cheat switch which is probably on the bottom board.

Hey Howard. Could you be referring to the Slam Switch on the coin door?

This switch wasn’t set properly before and I could not coin up or start a game normally. Once I set the switch properly, I’ve been able to coin up.

#67 2 years ago
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:

Alrighty. Can you elaborate? It seems odd that it would work as soon as the bad switches were jumpered. What should I be looking for?

The EOS on a solenoid is there to break the current to the solenoid as the stroke is completed. Pop bumpers, for example, will lock on until the stroke of the bumper is completed even if the triggering event (the ball hitting the ring switch) is of such a short duration that the bumper would not activate fully if the eos was not present in the circuit. When the bumper completes its stroke it opens the eos that kills the solenoid circuit and allows the bumper to retract. Scoring events are by pops, spinner, cushion or by score motor in this machine. The cushions and spinner will 99% of the time be closed by the ball long enough for the score reel solenoid to fully cycle, 100% for the score motor and pops. That is all the eos does here. On flippers it does some thing else, but lets leave that for now as that is not the issue here.

#68 2 years ago
Quoted from D-Gottlieb:

The EOS on a solenoid is there to break the current to the solenoid as the stroke is completed. Pop bumpers, for example, will lock on until the stroke of the bumper is completed even if the triggering event (the ball hitting the ring switch) is of such a short duration that the bumper would not activate fully if the eos was not present in the circuit. When the bumper completes its stroke it opens the eos that kills the solenoid circuit and allows the bumper to retract. Scoring events are by pops, spinner, cushion or by score motor in this machine. The cushions and spinner will 99% of the time be closed by the ball long enough for the score reel solenoid to fully cycle, 100% for the score motor and pops. That is all the eos does here. On flippers it does some thing else, but lets leave that for now as that is not the issue here.

Got it. I've removed all the jumpers off the score reels.

The Player Unit stops and the Z1 relay in the backbox energizes. Since it doesn't move past this point, it looks like I have an issue where one or more of my score reels isn't registering as back at zero. Correct?

#69 2 years ago
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:

Got it. I've removed all the jumpers off the score reels.
The Player Unit stops and the Z1 relay in the backbox energizes. Since it doesn't move past this point, it looks like I have an issue where one or more of my score reels isn't registering as back at zero. Correct?

If the jumpers were actually across eos switch contacts, all that would happen is the reel solenoid would stay energized once triggered during a scoring event, I am not sure whether that would apply during the reset sequence. Does the player unit operate at all with the jumpers removed? Can you upload a video to youtube? If you move scoring reels from zero at each player do they reset?

#70 2 years ago

Btw, are you certain that tbe AX relay is adjusted correctly? It has make/break contacts that can be very sensitive.

#71 2 years ago
Quoted from D-Gottlieb:

Btw, are you certain that tbe AX relay is adjusted correctly? It has make/break contacts that can be very sensitive.

Now I’m not feeling so confident I did. They connect well, but maybe I have too much of a gap and it’s creating a timing issues. I’ll double check and add a picture soon.

#72 2 years ago
Quoted from D-Gottlieb:

If the jumpers were actually across eos switch contacts, all that would happen is the reel solenoid would stay energized once triggered during a scoring event, I am not sure whether that would apply during the reset sequence. Does the player unit operate at all with the jumpers removed? Can you upload a video to youtube? If you move scoring reels from zero at each player do they reset?

Scores do reset if they’re not at zero.

The Player Unit operates when I start a new game and stops once it hits Z1. I can manually advance the Player Unit one time and it will finish the full cycle.

#73 2 years ago
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:

Scores do reset if they’re not at zero.
The Player Unit operates when I start a new game and stops once it hits Z1. I can manually advance the Player Unit one time and it will finish the full cycle.

Are the contacts lined up correctly and in the correct timing position relative to the shaft and are the wires on the wiper good? Z1 relay contacts clean and adjusted?

#74 2 years ago

I replaced the 3 bad EOS switches in the reel, cleaned and adjusted all the score reel position switches and cleaned and adjusted the AX relay for the thousandth time. The game will now do a complete reset, including clearing old scores and kick a ball.

Check out the video: https://flic.kr/p/W7XGUS

The next challenge if looking into why it's not registering any points and not increasing the ball count.

#75 2 years ago
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:

I replaced the 3 bad EOS switches in the reels, cleaned and adjusted all the score reel position switches and cleaned and adjusted the AX relay for the thousandth time. The game will now do a complete reset, including clearing old scores and kick a ball.
Check out the video: https://flic.kr/p/W7XGUS
The next challenge if looking into why it's not registering any points and not increasing the ball count.

#76 2 years ago

So those were not eos switches but contacts. Probably zero contacts. There is only one eos per reel. You will see a couple of switches in the reel assembly with double contacts to increase reliability. Any switch that operates with the position of the score reel is not an eos switch. Congratulations on your progress. It did advance the ball to the next player as I could hear the player unit step once. You had it set for more than one player. It looks like there could be a bad connection somewhere, jones plugs maybe, a lot of lights are out in the backglass (player lights). Just keep going through the machine following Clay's guide.

#77 2 years ago
Quoted from D-Gottlieb:

So those were not eos switches but contacts. Probably zero contacts. There is only one eos per reel. You will see a couple of switches in the reel assembly with double contacts to increase reliability. Any switch that operates with the position of the score reel is not an eos switch. Congratulations on your progress. I would next check the trough switch between the out hole and the shooter lane.

Thanks, for the encouragement.
The switches I replaced were EOS switches, see post 24. I figured while I was there, I would also adjust the reel positions switches.

I just cleaned and gapped both the switches and they seem to be ok.

#78 2 years ago

I just edited my post. The lower switch is indeed one. Haven't run across the other switch in a decagon before.

#79 2 years ago

Alrighty campers. I wanted to fully test the Player Unit so I downloaded Kerry Imming's document on Testing Gottlieb Player Unit.
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/Player%20Unit%20Troubleshooting.pdf

Before doing this, I fully cleaned the rivets with a Scotchbrite pad, cleaned with alcohol and finished with dielectric grease.

The directions say to start a 4-player game, but alas the Replay Unit in the backbox only shows 1 credit no matter how many coins I add.IMG_3947 (resized).jpg

Has anyone rebuilt one of these and could provide guidance?
IMG_3946 (resized).jpg

-Shaun

#80 2 years ago

There is an adjustment screw that is normally inside the white piece that will limit the replays. Max is nine. just remove the screw.

#81 2 years ago

Hi Shaun
none of my Gottlieb pins have such an "Half Moon" Credit Unit - I cannot help.
A good thing is to set the pin to "Free Play" - here http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm then http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#free .

Yesterday was a rather troubled day --- finally / at last my mobile phone broke down - at last completely - so I had to run around to buy me a new one.

I was and probably other readers were a little confused - the switches You were talking about - the switches You have jumpered --- well, great You could fix the fault.
In post-60 I was writing about the (my words) "de luxe jumpering". At the time You had the problem "after starting a game the Player-Unit does step to position-20 - but then The Score-Motor turns and turns and turns - no more stepping on the Player-Unit" - at that time You could have made an "de luxe jumpering of type "1" or "2" or simply de luxe jumpering the "Switch on Z1-Relay" --- when the pin comes to the "Motor turn and turns and turns: YOU are part of the logic --- YOU (cheat a bit and) make connection for just a moment - for just an step on the Player-Unit.

About (possible) confusion on Gottlieb Score-Drums - I show for "2nd-Player-Hundreds-Score-Drum" all the switches in the schematics - 1,2,3,4,5. From the Gottlieb Parts Catalog 1978 I show two JPG (I have put together) and I show the "2nd-Player-Hundreds-Score-Drum of my Surf Champ" --- big question: Were You jumpering on "my orange 2" place ? Greetings Rolf

0Gtb-300-Work-09 (resized).jpg

agot78-new-SC-Work-01 (resized).jpg

0got78-old-SC-Work-01 (resized).jpg

0Surf-Champ-SC-hundreds (resized).jpg

#82 2 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

big question: Were You jumpering on "my orange 2" place ? Greetings Rolf

Hey Rolf. I was jumping on #5 in the bottom picture and this must have been a false positive indicator for me. My thinking was the jumper was a fix, but it had nothing to do with it. My reel position switches(1,2,3 bottom) were all messed up. I got those adjusted and haven't had the Player Unit stuck on Z1-Relay since.

Current Status:
- The game will now do a complete reset, including clearing old scores and kick a ball. (Check out the video: https://flic.kr/p/W7XGUS)
- Some of the playfield switches do not register a score.
- No points register for All of Player 1, All of Player 2 and Thousands Unit on Player 3.***
- Player 4 score reels register all points.
- Ball count does not increase.

***I was able to manually step the Player Unit through to get to the other players and manually activate the Tens, Hundreds & Thousands relay.

Given that a majority of my backbox lighting is out(I replaced all with known good bulbs) and so many coils are not working, I feel there is an underlying wiring issue I can't find.

#83 2 years ago

One thing I found on my Top Score was that the wire loom was chewed up and taped back together near the player unit. I can only think that it was not clear of the unit and it wore through. So check all the wires, I guess.

#84 2 years ago

Hi Shaun
Ball count does not increase: The fault can be several places --- the first thing to look is the U-First-Ball-Relay. In a working pin this happens: You toggle-on the pin and the U-Relay starts pulling and stays pulling. You start a game and in the Reset-Stuff happening the U-Relay quits pulling (see "encircled green" on the bottom of the JPG). The pin kicks out the very first Ball. You launch the Ball and You make some points --- Switches on the actuating N- and/or M-Relay make the U-Relay pull-in and the U-Relay stays pulling for the rest of the lifetime of this ball --- acrually: For the rest of the Game.
In Your pin ? (also look at the switches on U-Relay - all good ?)

Score-Drums do not acuate when the Ball is in play: In post-47 I showed "schematics is drawn abstract" --- the reality in the pin might look different. Look in the JPG here - in the middle I show: MAYBE (maybe) the Switch on N-Relay is connected to Switch on Switchstack on Player-Unit-cam-4 --- and then the wire hops to the other Switches on other cams --- maybe, maybe. So locate the wire black-yellow on "Switch on Switchstack on cam-4 on Player-Unit (along the axis) and follow this wire to the other cams.

Please write which Playfield-Switches do SCORE - what points ?
I would like to stick to a "working Playfield-Switch scoring on Player-4" --- and try to fix the other Players. Greetings Rolf

0Gtb-300-Work-10 (resized).jpg

1 week later
#85 2 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi Shaun
Ball count does not increase: The fault can be several places --- the first thing to look is the U-First-Ball-Relay. In a working pin this happens: You toggle-on the pin and the U-Relay starts pulling and stays pulling. You start a game and in the Reset-Stuff happening the U-Relay quits pulling (see "encircled green" on the bottom of the JPG). The pin kicks out the very first Ball. You launch the Ball and You make some points --- Switches on the actuating N- and/or M-Relay make the U-Relay pull-in and the U-Relay stays pulling for the rest of the lifetime of this ball --- acrually: For the rest of the Game.
In Your pin ? (also look at the switches on U-Relay - all good ?)

Hey Rolf. This does appear to working as you have outlined. I'll look over the other procedure tonight.

1 week later
#86 2 years ago

I'm back from work travel and fiddle with this a little more to no avail.

I've called in some local reinforcements and will update with what gets discovered.

#87 2 years ago

Shot in the dark but whenever I had issues with my 300 it always was a result of the tilt switch in the upper right backbox. Probably not your issue but easy to check.

#88 2 years ago
Quoted from Newport-Bill:

Shot in the dark but whenever I had issues with my 300 it always was a result of the tilt switch in the upper right backbox. Probably not your issue but easy to check.

Whatever genius had it before apparently had his Tilt and Slam switches confused. I had to go to all of them and set them properly.

Thanks for you input; It takes a village to fix an EM. lol

#89 2 years ago
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:

Whatever genius had it before apparently had his Tilt and Slam switches confused. I had to go to all of them and set them properly.
Thanks for you input; It takes a village to fix an EM. lol

I am thinking I said this early on. Glad it worked out.

#90 2 years ago
Quoted from D-Gottlieb:

I am thinking I said this early on. Glad it worked out.

Almost. IT's not quite there yet.

#91 2 years ago

So, now what's it doing?

#92 2 years ago

Deeper dive showed more issues initially overlooked.

Poorly set player unit.
1BA93FF9-FEF1-462E-8559-87A5EF9255A0 (resized).jpeg

More contacts missing on score reels.
AB7AD108-3855-4B4F-B29E-2E5CCDA9DB74 (resized).jpeg

Bad/disconnected wire on the score motor.
2AB52EA7-DE43-4073-946C-760156E805DA (resized).jpeg

#93 2 years ago

These are the kind of things you discover when you go through them completely. All it takes is one of those types of issues to kill a game. Then they sit in some homeowners basement unplayed for 10 years and everything gets gummed up compounding the problem(s).

#94 2 years ago

Agreed. Going through like you are, you will discover things out of place. This is why EMs are great.

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