(Topic ID: 309300)

Gottlieb "300" 4 Player Help Needed

By Playdium

6 months ago


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Topic Stats

  • 25 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by DaMoib
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Bonus scoring 1X (resized).jpg
IMG_2081 (resized).jpg
IMG_2080 (resized).jpg
Coin unit position for 1P game (resized).jpg
IMG_2074 (resized).jpg
IMG_2073 (resized).jpg
IMG_2072 (resized).jpg
IMG_2054 (resized).jpg
300 Player Unit 2 (resized).jpg
IMG_2052 (resized).jpg
300 1k relay (resized).jpg
Game Over

#1 6 months ago

I just started in on this machine and found it would never go into Game Over. Well this looks like the cause.

Also, when attempting to start a game, the machine automatically sets up for 3 players. If I push the credit button, 4 players are then shown.

Also, when the 100's reel rolls over from 9 to 0, nothing is scored on the 1000's reel. I thought that it may be the 9th position switch. But this occurs on all 4 players.

Ideas?

Game Over "300" (resized).jpg
#2 6 months ago
Quoted from Playdium:

when attempting to start a game, the machine automatically sets up for 3 players. If I push the credit button, 4 players are then shown.

Does the Coin Unit reset back to its reset/1 player position at the start of a new game?

Quoted from Playdium:

Also, when the 100's reel rolls over from 9 to 0, nothing is scored on the 1000's reel.

Does the 100 point chime work? If not it's probably the M/100 point relay switch in the red box:
300 1k relay (resized).jpg
/Mark

#3 6 months ago

Replaced that coil 2 weeks ago new coil didn't fit had to trim plastic, new coil buzzes doesn't pull relay in all the way. I'll try one from pbr.

#4 6 months ago
Quoted from jpinb:

Replaced that coil 2 weeks ago new coil didn't fit had to trim plastic, new coil buzzes doesn't pull relay in all the way. I'll try one from pbr.

That was the Game Over relay which takes coil #A-9740. Which of course I didn't have in my parts stash. Order just placed.

#5 6 months ago

Does the 100 point chime work? If not it's probably the M/100 point relay switch in the red box:

I'll have time on Friday to get back on this. Thanks Mark for the assistance.

#6 6 months ago
Quoted from Playdium:

That was the Game Over relay which takes coil #A-9740. Which of course I didn't have in my parts stash. Order just placed.

While you're waiting you can swap in the seldom used A-9740 from the Second Chute relay (W).

#7 6 months ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Does the Coin Unit reset back to its reset/1 player position at the start of a new game?

Does the 100 point chime work? If not it's probably the M/100 point relay switch in the red box:
[quoted image]
/Mark

Hello again,

Well I'm back on it and the following scoring issues are occurring.
Player 1: 10's and 100's will not roll over, 1000's do roll over.
Player 2: 10's do roll over, 100's do not roll over, 1000's do roll over.
Player 3: 10's do not roll over, 100's do roll over, 1000's do roll over.
Player 4: 10's, 100's, and 1000's all roll over.

The coin unit does reset, and the chime unit is fully working.

I am curious about the player unit though. The attached video shows a start up issue where Player 1 & 2 will reset the score reels, but 3 & 4 do not due to the player unit. I can advance it manually once and it will complete the reset procedure. Can someone verify that position of the wiper? Possibly it's not in the correct position?

https://flic.kr/p/2n24hjq

This is where the wiper ends up in the start position.

IMG_2052 (resized).jpg
#8 6 months ago

I don't follow the rollover summary. But if you roll from 9 to 0 on one score reel (e.g. the 100 point score reel) does the next point relay (e.g. the 1000 point relay) fire along with the 2nd chime (e.g. 1000 point chime)?

Your Player Unit is stalled waiting for the scores for players 1 and 2 to clear. Although the score reels have cleared the switches that tell the Player Unit that it can move on are not all closing:
300 Player Unit 2 (resized).jpg
During reset the Player Unit steps through several positions. When it reaches position 20 the Z1/1st and 2nd Player Reset relay fires which opens the normally closed Z1 switch just above the red box above. The Z1 switch is usually closed and lets the Player Unit advance while ignoring the player 1 and player 2 score reels. When the Z1 switch opens (at Player Unit position 20) the Player Unit has to wait until all eight zero position switches on the player 1 and 2 score reels close. Until that happens the Score Motor chugs away, sending pulses to the score reels because it thinks that some of them haven't reached zero yet.

If you're lucky you can jiggle the player 1 and player 2 score reels one at a time while the motor is running and get the Player Unit to advance. That would tell you which score reel it's waiting for. Otherwise you'll need to check them all.

#9 6 months ago
Quoted from MarkG:

I don't follow the rollover summary. But if you roll from 9 to 0 on one score reel (e.g. the 100 point score reel) does the next point relay (e.g. the 1000 point relay) fire along with the 2nd chime (e.g. 1000 point chime)?

No

#10 6 months ago

Have a look at the circuit in reply #2. It shows when the L/1000 point relay can fire when the M/100 point relay switch closes. (The M/100 point relay has the same basic circuit for when the N/10 point relay fires.)

So if your 100 point relay fires and a 9 is showing on the current player's 100 point score reel, the L/1000 point relay should fire. If not either the 9th position switch, or the "On Add xxx Hundreds" switch (probably and end of stroke switch on the Score Reel) or the switch on the M/100 point relay isn't closed.

#11 6 months ago

I overlooked the "Add On' switch contacts. I have several that are missing contacts. I'll be soldering new ones on this morning.

IMG_2054 (resized).jpg
#12 6 months ago
Quoted from MarkG:

I don't follow the rollover summary. But if you roll from 9 to 0 on one score reel (e.g. the 100 point score reel) does the next point relay (e.g. the 1000 point relay) fire along with the 2nd chime (e.g. 1000 point chime)?
Your Player Unit is stalled waiting for the scores for players 1 and 2 to clear. Although the score reels have cleared the switches that tell the Player Unit that it can move on are not all closing:
[quoted image]
During reset the Player Unit steps through several positions. When it reaches position 20 the Z1/1st and 2nd Player Reset relay fires which opens the normally closed Z1 switch just above the red box above. The Z1 switch is usually closed and lets the Player Unit advance while ignoring the player 1 and player 2 score reels. When the Z1 switch opens (at Player Unit position 20) the Player Unit has to wait until all eight zero position switches on the player 1 and 2 score reels close. Until that happens the Score Motor chugs away, sending pulses to the score reels because it thinks that some of them haven't reached zero yet.
If you're lucky you can jiggle the player 1 and player 2 score reels one at a time while the motor is running and get the Player Unit to advance. That would tell you which score reel it's waiting for. Otherwise you'll need to check them all.

This issue has been resolved. The random score reels that were not rolling over was an issue with the "Add On' switch for each reel. Bad contacts, or missing contacts were found.

#13 6 months ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Does the Coin Unit reset back to its reset/1 player position at the start of a new game?

OP

This issue has been tracked down to a defective switch at the "U" relay. By placing a jumper at "U" on the hot side of the switch to the coin subtract coil, it resets to player 1 upon start up. In normal start up, it will only step from player 4, to player 3.
I'll replace it with a spare tomorrow.

Thank you MarkG for the assistance!

#14 6 months ago

My reset animation may help to diagnose future reset problems:
https://rumble.com/vtu4f3-1971-1976-gottlieb-pinball-4-player-reset-sequence-animation.html

#15 5 months ago

The coin unit seems to be giving me some issues with the reset. During start up, the "Reset Coin Unit" fires as well as the "Add Coin Unit" advancing the disc to 2 Players. What is the correct placement for the wiper?
https://flic.kr/p/2n2LKpW

IMG_2072 (resized).jpgIMG_2073 (resized).jpgIMG_2074 (resized).jpg
#16 5 months ago

For a 1 player game, the three shoe set should be one step away (below) from the three rivet set. This is also the reset position.

Coin unit position for 1P game (resized).jpg

#17 5 months ago

Is the U relay pulled in at the time you see the add coin pulse? U should be pulled in: 1) At power up, and 2) After P1 points are scored. In both cases, the M/B switch on the U relay's job is to block "coin up" pulses.

#18 5 months ago
Quoted from DaMoib:

Is the U relay pulled in at the time you see the add coin pulse? U should be pulled in: 1) At power up, and 2) After P1 points are scored. In both cases, the M/B switch on the U relay's job is to block "coin up" pulses.

With the coin unit in the 4th position, and the machine powered off, the following occurs.
Power on the machine, both "U" 1st Ball Relay and "Q" Game Over Relay lock in.
Press the credit button and both relays release quickly and the coin unit does a full reset, and advances to the 2nd position.
Why is the coin unit firing to advance to the 2nd position?

IMG_2080 (resized).jpg
#19 5 months ago
Quoted from DaMoib:

For a 1 player game, the three shoe set should be one step away (below) from the three rivet set. This is also the reset position.
[quoted image]

Yes, that is how mine is set.
Thanks

#20 5 months ago

From your video, it looks like both the reset and add coin unit relays are actuated at the same time - that should never happen, it is controlled by that U M/B switch. One or the other should fire. Check that switch out...

#21 5 months ago
Quoted from DaMoib:

From your video, it looks like both the reset and add coin unit relays are actuated at the same time - that should never happen, it is controlled by that U M/B switch. One or the other should fire. Check that switch out...

Yes, I thought the same but they are ok. I found the issue was with motor switch 4B. It was not gapped properly, (always open).

So the issue with the coin unit is resolved. It now resets correctly to player 1 upon start.

Bonus scoring issue is next. In 3 ball game, no bonus is scored for balls collected on ball one. On ball two, 1000 points are score, ball three 2000 points are scored. According to the card displayed, it looks like first ball should be scoring 1000 per bonus ball.

IMG_2081 (resized).jpg
#22 5 months ago

The backglass animation drains out though? If so, these 2 switches OK?

If it is the Motor 3B switch, the red hole won't score 1,000 either.

Bonus scoring 1X (resized).jpg

#23 5 months ago
Quoted from DaMoib:

The backglass animation drains out though? If so, these 2 switches OK?
If it is the Motor 3B switch, the red hole won't score 1,000 either.
[quoted image]

You were right on the mark. Motor switch 3B was the fault by not closing. Adjusted switch and now scoring properly. Many thanks for the help!!
This is the first 4 player for me in a long time, as all my other machine were single wedge heads. I like the "Mystery Score" time delay feature. I've never seen that before. Was this a common feature used in multi player machines by Gottlieb?

#24 5 months ago

I have a 1965 "Flipper Pool" that has a Mystery score feature. 2 side alleys alternate being lit, and if you go through the lit one, you get from 100 to 500 pts. Clever switch logic and a fun feature.

#25 5 months ago

"Mystery Score" is on a few games that I know of - "300", Top Score and [Super] Soccer... but those Delay Modules (2 different ones were produced) are used elsewhere for some feature control and randomness - Flip A Card, ... there are a few others listed in this thread:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-capacitor-diode-and-resistor-walk-into-a-bar

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