(Topic ID: 262253)

Gottlieb 1976 Buccaneer Start Relay not activating


By etolisano

39 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 52 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 32 days ago by etolisano
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    There are 52 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 39 days ago

    I have a Gottlieb Buccaneer that will not power up without manually activating start relay.

    #2 39 days ago

    Are their credits on the machine?

    #3 39 days ago

    Yes.

    #4 39 days ago
    Quoted from etolisano:

    I have a Gottlieb Buccaneer that will not power up without manually activating start relay.

    When you manually activate the Start relay, are you feeling the coil being activated? Did you check to see if the coil is getting power?

    I have a Ship Ahoy, I’ll check the schematic to see what controls the Start relay once I get home.

    Alberto

    #5 39 days ago

    If the Start relay (S) doesn't activate when you push the Replay button, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
    http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
    http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

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    #6 39 days ago

    Found a switch on credit unit relay and game and start relay now kicks in. Credit is removed from credit unit, playfield lights up, tilt hold relay stays activated, sequence bank is reset, ball does not kick out...

    #7 39 days ago
    Quoted from etolisano:

    Found a switch on credit unit relay and game and start relay now kicks in ... ball does not kick out

    Hi Ed,
    1) You're welcome
    2) I don't see any Credit Unit relay on the schematic. Where is it?
    3) Does the Ball Return relay (O) activate when this happens?

    #8 39 days ago

    Howard,
    Thanks!
    Bad description. It’s maybe called the Add “Replay Unit”.
    Also, with scores on score reels all reset accept 100 score reel.
    ‘O’ relay doesn’t activate on startup.

    #9 39 days ago
    Quoted from etolisano:

    Howard,
    Thanks!
    Bad description. It’s maybe called the Add “Replay Unit”.
    Also, with scores on score reels all reset accept 100 score reel.
    ‘O’ relay doesn’t activate on startup.

    Ed

    All scoring reels should be reset for the startup sequence to complete.

    If you manually set the 100s feel to the 0 position and then push the Replay button, does the game complete the reset cycle?

    Alberto

    #10 39 days ago

    There may be a bad contact on 'O' relay, set of contacts are arcing and pushed in manually the ball kicker activates.

    #11 39 days ago

    Ed

    In addition to the bad contact, Check what controls the “O” relay in the schematic. Maybe it’s one of those inputs that is missing.

    Alberto

    #12 39 days ago

    Alberto, I take it you're from Peru!

    I have tried it both ways, with score reels all at 0 and with scores on all reels. Does not matter, only difference is when there is a score on 100's reel, that one does not reset. I suspect that the coil on 100's reel is not good. Found a wire off of one contact blade and re-soldering it made no difference.
    'O' relay is not kicking in on startup.

    #13 38 days ago
    Quoted from etolisano:

    I suspect that the coil on 100's reel is not good

    Hot wire or Swap solenoid coil with another score reel to find out.

    #14 38 days ago

    When you say ‘hot wire’ please give me a little more info! I don’t want to get fried...

    #15 38 days ago

    I had the game working for a moment..,then it went back to not activating the O relay at startup. I’m overlooking something? It has to be a normally closed switch on motor 1c, motor 2b, S, D, E or G...not the ball return switch.

    #16 38 days ago

    Ed

    Jumper around those switches one by one to see if you can isolate the problem.

    Alberto

    #17 38 days ago

    Alberto,

    Will do. I know I'm close to finding this issue.
    Sometimes hard to see whether those contacts are actually making and getting the wire colors right.

    Ed T

    #18 38 days ago

    In order to check coil resistance, put your DMM on its lowest resistance setting. Then put the DMM's red and black leads on each coil's lugs. The coils can usually be checked right in the game without having to disconnect any wires. A resistance of 2 ohms or greater should be seen. Anything less than 2 ohms, and the coil is bad! Replace the coil with a new one.

    Do you agree with this statement about coils? If so, it seems I have quite a few coils that measure less than 2 ohms...
    How do you check whether a coil is performing correctly?
    Thanks

    #19 38 days ago
    Quoted from etolisano:

    How do you check whether a coil is performing correctly?

    Quoted from HowardR:

    Hot wire or Swap solenoid coil with another score reel to find out.

    Quoted from etolisano:

    When you say ‘hot wire’ please give me a little more info! I don’t want to get fried...

    Then try my suggestion to swap the solenoid coil with another score reel

    Or if that's too much trouble, if the 100 reel won't reset to 0, (Re Hot wire) Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
    http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
    http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
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    #20 38 days ago

    Whoever is reading this post; Alberto or Howard, this is where I am at:

    -Turn game on (No lights)
    -Hit coin switch, 2 games put on credit unit,
    -Push start, playfield lights only come on (no lights in head), score reels reset
    -Hundreds will only reset when it is in the '9' position on reel, all other numbers 0-8 and reel does not move.
    -Ball is sent to shooter and game plays. All functions on playfield seem normal. Specials light up, scores as indicated, balls count to 5 (I've even matched several times).
    -Goes to Game Over.

    Any ideas on what's going on?

    Thanks,
    Ed T

    #21 37 days ago

    Arrrrgggg... after all that progress the FS Relay and score motor keep running when games is powered up.

    #22 37 days ago

    I just fixed my Buccaneer. 1st did you clean all the Jones plug connectors? Tighten all switch stack screws? I cleaned the majority of the switches in mine and it worked. Only adjusted one single switch. Here is the start up sequence for Buccaneer from the manual:

    1) Replay button actuates the S relay
    2) This relay will lock in through its own switch and a motor 2B switch.
    3) The following sequence takes place thru the closed switches on the S relay:
    a) Motor runs.
    b) A motor 2C switch actuates the play meter and "AX" & "JX" relays.
    c) Sequence bank reset by a switch on motor 4B.
    4) When AX relay is actuated it is locked in by the armature of the AX relay reset coil. Through the closed switches on the AX relay and the score unit runout switches the units are reset to zero through a switch on motor 1A. When all units are reset and motor 2B makes, AX relay reset coil is actuated. This releases the armature on AX relay and opens the switches. Reset cycle complete.
    5) Place ball in outhole, ball closes ball return switch "O" relay runs the motor. A motor 4C switch closes and actuates the ball return coil whick kicks ball across trough switch stepping the ball count unit indicating 1st ball in play.

    #23 37 days ago

    Hey, thanks for your input. I’ve been to the point where the ball comes out and playfield is lt up and functioning. My problem now is frustrating. After getting to that point now my score motor is running along with the FS relay and it won’t stop?
    I’ve been finding switches out of adjustment or dirty and it fixes the problem only for something else to go wrong.
    I have cleaned the Jones plugs but maybe not as thorough as needed.
    How did you clean yours?

    #24 37 days ago

    180 grit sandpaper on the male ends and a small bottle brush on the female ends. Do them all. Also I wouldn't adjust any switches yet. Tighten all the switch stack screws 1st on the relays, then lightly clean the contacts with a flexstone. Check the operation of each relay by manually actuating it.

    #25 37 days ago

    Thanks for the tips. I was wondering how to better clean the ‘female’ end of the Jones!
    Where did you get the bottle brush?

    #26 37 days ago

    Duh...Amazon!

    #27 34 days ago

    This is where I'm at with Buccaneer:
    -turn on game, no lights

    #28 34 days ago

    -coin switch gives 2 credits
    -press start, playfield lights come on, ball is kicked out to shooter.
    -all rollovers score 5000 on initial hit, supposed to score 500 after light is out but does not score 500.
    -game plays and counts 5 balls, then game over.
    -pop bumpers are not scoring.
    -slingshots work.
    -all playfield contacts score.
    -all score reels count and ninth position scores properly to next higher score reel.
    -on game reset, 100's reel will only reset to '0' when it is in ninth position.
    -no lights in backbox.

    Cleaned all Jones Plugs with 180 grit sandpaper on male and alcohol with bottle brush on female.
    Tightened all switch stacks.
    Did not clean every contact switch in game yet.
    Probably will soon clean all switch contacts on sequence bank as those control all the rollover switches.

    I'm getting closer to having a game that works!

    Thanks for your assistance.

    Ed T

    #29 34 days ago

    For your pop bumpers, clean each switch and manually operate to insure they make contact. I like mine adjusted to about a 1/16". If still not working, each has relay, clean those switches and check relay operation.

    2 credits is normal on coin switches, there are adjustments near transformer.

    Check fuses for the backbox lights, schematics show two that control lights.

    Just shopped out my PF today. Re-glued loose inserts, cleaned and waxed. You'll soon you'll be there!

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    #30 34 days ago

    Thanks!
    I already checked all fuses. I'll look at schematic to see if I missed anything.
    Starting to think I may have some cold solder joints in places. I've cleaned and adjusted all switches in circuit with ball return relay 'O' and it works for several simulated games, then stops working.
    Also, I have not figured out why the 100's reel only resets when it is in the 9th position?
    Your playfield looks good!
    Just stripped mine down tonight. Was pretty dirty, using Mr. Clean eraser and alcohol. Works good and does not take off paint if you're careful!

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    #31 34 days ago

    So, I need to share this.

    Upon re-checking fuses for light box and playfield lights found that the 2 fuses were flipped; in other words the 7.5 amp was where the 10 amp was supposed to be... both fuses were good so I turned the game off and put the fuses where they were supposed to be thinking I would now have backbox lights...now I have no lights.

    Put them back the way they were originally ( which was incorrect according to schematics) and I have playfield lights again.

    Fuses are still all good. So I thought maybe I had bad solder joints at fuse holder that controls light box. Resoldered and turned on game with switch, no lights at all!

    I have good 110v coming into game and no power to game!

    Could it be the switch underneath playfield is fried?

    I’m about to check...

    #32 34 days ago

    So with game unplugged I put my meter on red and black leads of cabinet switch and checked it when button was apparently in off position and no continuity...

    Hit switch to on position and I have continuity...

    Plugged game back in and hit credit button, playfield lights come on.

    Re-checked all fuses and amps, all are good and correct per schematic and labels next to fuse holders.

    Still have no backbox lights!

    Wtf???

    #33 34 days ago

    Hey Ed. I’ve been looking at my Ship Ahoy to see if I can help figure out your lighting problem. I find it interesting that when you swapped the fuses, the playfield lights stopped working, but when put them back as they were before, the lights came back on. That would lead me to think that the fuse for the backbox is not good. There seems to be other problems since the backbox lights didn’t come on, but I still suspect a bad fuse. What method did you use to check them?

    #34 34 days ago

    Hey Jason,

    I simply checked the fuses with my ohm meter.

    Is it possible for a fuse to check good on meter and not be good?

    I’m starting to think there must be a broken ground on one of the lamp sockets in back box.

    #35 34 days ago

    Also Jason when you turn on your Shop Ahoy with under cabinet switch do the lights come on?

    On my Buccaneer they do not come on until start button is pushed. Playfield Lights do not even come on when game is coined up.

    #36 34 days ago

    The backbox lights and coin chute light come on with the power switch. Playfield lights come on when the TX Tilt relay is reset upon start up on my AAB. Not sure how your replay does it, maybe R or H? Can you tell if you have 6v at the coin chute light?

    Also, are you checking the fuse pulled out of the holder, or still in the machine?

    #37 34 days ago

    I will check when I get home but that is possibly the source of backbox light issues.
    One can only hope... what would the absence of 6v mean?
    Yes, out of holder.

    #38 34 days ago

    Out of the holder is the right way. If you have 6v at the coin chute light, then it’s likely there is good voltage going to the jones plug. Possible issues might be the return/neutral wire connection at the transformer, Jones plug solder connections, or something in the backbox to name a few.

    #39 34 days ago

    Absence of 6v at the coin chute light could indicate an issue at the hot 6v side of the transformer, or a fuse/fuse holder issue. I’m by no means a pinball expert though, just trying to figure this out with you.

    #40 34 days ago

    Nor am I! I appreciate your input; this is how we get our expertise...

    #41 33 days ago

    No 6 volts at door lights!

    #42 33 days ago

    I have continuity from the wires on door lights to the corresponding wires on male side of Jones plug.
    Cleaned the male and female again and I don’t think it’s there.
    In process of cleaning fuse holder.
    Have some voltage coming into wires at 7.5 amp fuse holder but it doesn’t get to barely 5 volts on my meter...

    #43 33 days ago

    Are you measuring from the fuse holder back to the transformer? The schematic should show you what color wires are for the 6v lighting at the transformer. Mine are black-white.

    #44 33 days ago

    I’ve got it working!!!
    It was the fuse holder; cleaned it down to bare metal and I’ve got contact!
    Thanks’

    image (resized).jpg
    #45 33 days ago

    Awesome! Just had to keep at it.

    #46 33 days ago

    In the process of shining it up...

    image (resized).jpg
    #47 33 days ago

    Front door lights, check!
    Last known issue is why doesn’t the hundreds reel reset on startup?
    It resets only when ‘9’ is showing!?!
    This should be easier with all those other issues behind...

    image (resized).jpg
    #48 33 days ago

    etolisano for the scoring reel first check that the stack of three switches that get actuated by the reel changing numbers are all in the correct state. The tens, hundreds, and thousands switch stacks should all be the same and change states the same way. There should be three states, one for when the scoring reel is set to "0", one for when the scoring reel is set to "1-8", and the last one for when the scoring reel is set to "9". From what you are explaining, the "1-8" setting must be in the incorrect state. There could also be a loose wire.

    The stack of switches sits just behind the scoring reel. Best way to check the operation of each stack is by pulling the scoring reel off it's mounting bracket.

    Alberto

    #49 33 days ago

    Check and adjust the hundreds unit runout switch (schematic in HowardR's post #19 above). Compare its operation to the runout switch on one of your working reels if you have doubts.

    Also see: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#reels

    #50 33 days ago

    Thanks!
    Stay tuned...
    Ed T

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