(Topic ID: 180544)

Gottlieb 1975 Quick Draw 2Player Coin Door

By millsy

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 12 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by millsy
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 7 years ago

Having problems with startup but would like to sought out the coin door wiring first. Soon as power turned on score motor runs continously, replay button non responsive - the 2 wires displayed were joined together otherwise all other coin door wiring seems to be intact. Disconnected the 2 joined wires and the motor runs and stops,it is set on free play. Should the HOLD (G) relay be energized on power up or only when Start relay manually activated. (At the moment I have the playfield out )

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#2 7 years ago

The loose wires went to the coin lockout coil, which has been removed along with its hardware. It's function was to direct coins to the credit switches when powered up, or return coins when the game was turned off. Game will play without it.

The Hold relay locks in at start. The playfield jones plugs have to be connected to check game functions, with ball in outhole, credits on credit wheel, and score reels at zero.

#3 7 years ago

Just as an FYI, when you separate wires that someone else has tied together, pay attention to the wire colors. If the wires are different colors, then it may be OK to separate them. If the wires are the same color, it's very likely that you don't want to separate them, even if doing that seems to fix a problem.

The electrical parts on the coin door, like the rest of the game, will often have "daisy-chain" wiring. A common wire that needs to be connected to several different components is run from solder lug to solder lug of each component, such as the coin switches, replay button, etc. The result of this is that you will often find two wires of the same color soldered to one lug of a switch or coil.

When people remove electrical parts such as the coin lockout coil, if there is a daisy-chain wire connected to one of the solder lugs, they must tie the two same-color wires together, otherwise all of the electrical parts downstream from the removed part will stop working.

So, if you separate two wires of the same color on the coin door, you're probably going to disable some of the electrical stuff on the door. This may cure a problem like a stuck coin switch (for example), but it may also create another problem (for example) like a non-working replay button.

- TimMe

#4 7 years ago

adding my 2 cents here.
The wires on that door look tired.
chk out the slam switch the one with most of the coating burned away.
look over all those door wires, if something burned the coating off the end, it may have burned somewhere else along that wire.

#5 7 years ago
Quoted from millsy:

Having problems with startup but would like to sought out the coin door wiring first. Soon as power turned on score motor runs continously, replay button non responsive - the 2 wires displayed were joined together otherwise all other coin door wiring seems to be intact. Disconnected the 2 joined wires and the motor runs and stops,it is set on free play. Should the HOLD (G) relay be energized on power up or only when Start relay manually activated. (At the moment I have the playfield out )

Fitted temporary start button at those 2 coin lockout wires.
First senario
1.manually set scores on all the score reels to zero, manually reset all the stepper units to zero, unlatch any interlock relays (AX & BX & CX relays).
2.Turn Machine on.
3.Tilt & Game Over displayed at backbox, Q (Game Over), U (1st Ball), H (Tilt Hold) Relays are ENERGIZED.
4.Manually activate S (Start Relay)
During Start-up
5.Score motor turns, Score Reels Reset to 0, Player Unit Resets, AX relay energizes
Start-up Completed
6.Score motor stops, AX relay De-energizes Q (Game Over), U (1st Ball),H (Tilt Hold) Relays are ENERGIZED. Game Over displayed at backbox.

Second senario
1. manually set scores on all the score reels , manually reset all the stepper units to zero, unlatch any interlock relays (AX & BX & CX relays).
2. Turn Machine on
3. Manually activate S (Start Relay) Whilst manually holding R (HOLD) relay through out the start up sequence.

During Start-up
Score motor turns, Score Reels Reset to 0, Player Unit Resets, AX relay and BX relay Energizes.
Start-up Completed
Score motor stops, Player 1 and Ball 1 displayed, can manually activate score wheels.CX relay latched.

Then when manually releasing the R (HOLD) relay
Q (Game Over), U (1st Ball),H (Tilt Hold) Relays are ENERGIZED. Game Over displayed at backbox.

Bloody late Gottlieb - wish it was a Bally.

No mention of the R (Hold) relay on the startup sequence literature, I do have the schematic but still struggle with the wiring road map.

When and how does the R (Hold) relay function ?

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#6 7 years ago

The main problem with those Coin Lockout wires joined together is soon as you power up the machine the game continually energizes the Start Relay causing other relays to machine gun whilst adding games to the Total Meter.

#7 7 years ago

If the two wires that you separated are grey wires, then you may have disconnected the anti-cheat switch on the front door when you separated those wires. With that anti-cheat switch disabled, the R relay will never energize.

The purpose of the R relay is to ensure that the game is forced to a game over state when it is first turned on. This happens because switches on the R relay cause the game over relay to trip if the R relay is in the non-energized state. This will always be the case when the game is first turned on.

The R relay is pulled in by a switch on the start relay. The R relay has its own lock-in switch that keeps it pulled in all of the time after that. During the normal operation of the machine during the entire time it is powered up, the R relay will never drop open - it stays energized 100% of the time. The only way to get the R relay to drop open while the game power is on is if the user picks up and drops the machine (causing the bounce switch on the bottom board to open briefly) or if the user pounds on the front door (causing the anti-cheat switch on the door to open briefly).

So, your first repair task is to get the R relay to stay pulled in by itself 100% of the time when you push it in by hand, or start a new game. It may be that the wiring you separated on the front door needs to be tied together to get power back on to the R relay. You may also have a burned-out R relay coil - this is a possibility because the R relay is on all the time, and it gets very hot in operation. To test the R relay coil, you can run a jumper wire from the 25 VAC fuse holder to the non-black wire solder lug of the R relay coil. If the coil is good, that will cause the R relay to pull in.

Once the R relay is working as it should, you can start to deal with the other repair issue(s) in your game.

- TimMe

#8 7 years ago

Thanks TimMe
Those 2 wires at the coin lockout area were joined when I got the machine (I presumed they were the lockout wires)& the black wire which is cut next to these wires,The bounce switch,replay button & coin switch wiring looks original. Originally when powered up the score motor just run continuously. All switches in the cab & backbox was checked & cleaned including the AX & BX (50times ).

#9 7 years ago

OK - If you re-connect those two wires on the coin door, does the R relay stay in by itself when you push it in?

- TimMe

#10 7 years ago

Ok - A bit of progress I think.(Hold relay staying energized) At present this is happening:
1. Both coin door wires connected together.
2. Before turning power on .Un-Latch all relays (Only relay latched - CX 2nd Player- unlatch it)
3. Power up machine,soon as machine turned on goes into the Start sequence.
4. Score motor runs, Player Unit resets (START RELAY & HOLD RELAY energize -hooray)
5. AX relay locks in then locks out (HOLD RELAY still staying energized)
Then the Start Relay locks out - Then continuously starts locking in,out,in out,in out as well as some other relays.
I then have to turn the game off.
Hope all this makes sense.

#11 7 years ago

That's good progress!

Next thing to do is get the start relay to stop pulling in all the time. Check for a coin switch or replay button switch on the front door that is stuck closed all the time.

- TimMe

#12 7 years ago

Problems solved
The Hold(R) relay not staying energized - Retensioned & Recleaned the lockin switch.
The continuous Start Up - The problem was the coin switch blades - Even though blades were bent back, one blade was touching -refer pict.
Now when machine turned on,machine is in normal game over mode,Hit the Replay button (Yes the replay button now works )
Game resets perfectly to Player 1, Hit the replay button again & selects Player 2 as it should.
Now to fit the Playfield back into the machine & see what happens.

Thanks everyone for their input especially TinMe

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