Spin Wheel
Gottlieb, 1968Hi all, new member. Had this game stored 5 years. Was working fine. The spinner function(pic#2) is just advancing 1 step instead of spinning randomly when a spin lane is rolled through. I checked all my body/headboard connections & the contacts on the spinner unit itself(pic#1). Should I be looking at the various contact/solenoid switches on the main bank as well(pic#3).
20180719_151138 (resized).jpg20180719_151219 (resized).jpg20180719_172418 (resized).jpgHi MrPin61 welcome to pinside!
From what you say it's hard to tell whether the problem is electrical or mechanical. And fyi long random pictures (like your #3) just make it harder to to scroll around in your topic.
What would help would be:
1) Reply sent in private message
2) A couple different camera angles of the internal spin unit
The backbox spinner lights run off a INFAMOUS gottlieb mini stepper.
The spinner pulses the minni stepper to make the lights go around.
I can't remember if it's under the playfield or in the cab bottom.
Check those two items, the spinner and especially the mini stepper.
Good luck.
Here are two photos of the spin unit and counterweight on the bottom board.
I had to tweak this unit to get mine to work correctly, it can be tricky to get it working well.
It's been a long time since I worked on it so my memory is fading on how it works.
Does your stepper cam lobe contact the counterweight and get it spinning? The spinning counterweight activates a leaf switch for the backbox lights to make the random number of advances in the backbox unit (if I remember correctly).
Maybe you are only getting one stroke out of the leaf switch due to some friction or adjustment in this stepper unit.
Alan
P2K...yes the cam lobe contacts the counterweight and it spins but it does not move the arrows on the backglass. I found the mini stepper that OCD_pinball mentioned and it does function moving the arrow 1 step at a time only. I am wondering if the Spin Delay or Spin Pulse relay contacts are the problem. Coils are working.
On other games the leaf switch closed by the rotating weight (or spinning target) advances the mini stepper (AS relay) each time the leaf switch closes. In your game it sounds like the Spin Pulse relay could be another candidate. Either way you should be able to manually spin the weight slowly and see something else activate each time the leaf switch closes. If the leaf switch does drive the mini stepper it could be that the mini stepper (AS relay) is a little sluggish and not able to respond to the relatively quick pulses of the rotating weight.
On other games the delay relay allows the rotating weight to stop spinning before awarding whatever points or target the mini stepper advanced to so it might not be involved.
For anyone who can't visualize how the Spin Unit works there's more info and video here: www.funwithpinball.com/small-boards#SpinUnit
/Mark
Thanks Mark. Turning the spinner weight does nothing. Does not activate the mini stepper or move backglass arrows. When a spin rollover or eject hole when lit is made, the stepper and spinner are activated causing the backglass arrow to move 1 step and points to be scored.
Quoted from MrPin61:Turning the spinner weight does nothing.
That doesn't sound right. It's possible that the spinning weight leaf switch requires another switch to close to do something but it seems unnecessary. Have you verified that the spinning weight leaf switch closes and makes good electrical contact?
Do you have a schematic for this game? Can you post a section with the spinning weight leaf switch?
Or, can you trace the wires from the spinning weight leaf switch to see where they go? I'd start looking for them on the solder lugs of the mini stepper relay and the Spin Pulse relay.
The spinning weight leaf switch has 2 sets of contacts. 1 normally open and 1 normally closed. I filed them a tad to remove carbon and they appear to making contact..open/close. The 2 switches are in series. Can't find the schematics unfortunately. Will have to buy another set.
20180720_103529 (resized).jpg20180720_103613 (resized).jpg20180720_124413 (resized).jpg20180720_124430 (resized).jpgQuoted from MrPin61:The 2 switches are in series.
Ok, that's interesting. That implies that they need to be adjusted so that they're both closed briefly as one opens and the other closes. I found a schematic for Flip A Card which has the same Spin Unit:
Flip A Card Spin Pulse relay (resized).jpg
This shows the Normally Open and Normally Closed Spin Unit switches in series. It also shows that the Normally Open switch on the A/Spin Score Delay relay must be closed too before the X/Spin Pulse relay fires.
If you manually activate the X/Spin Pulse relay do your lights advance as you expect? If so, it seems that either:
- the A/Spin Pulse relay isn't firing or
- the Normally Open switch on the A/Spin pulse relay isn't closing or
- the series switches on the Spin Unit are never both closed
Also, if the spin hole on the playfield is activated, the G 50 point hole kicker relay, Z hole spin release relay, Y spin score relay, A spin delay relay & X spin pulse relay are all activated resulting in the spin unit and mini stepper working but only advancing the arrow on backglass 1 step with the resulting score. It seems to me the leaf switch on the spinner is the root of the problem, but I can't figure out exactly why.
Quoted from MrPin61:It seems to me the leaf switch on the spinner is the root of the problem, but I can't figure out exactly why.
Can you verify that the two spinner switches are ever closed at the same time? You should be able to put a multimeter on the two colored wires on the two leaf switch solder tabs and measure the resistance. Then slowly rotate the spinning target. Most of the time you'll see a very high resistance but at some point in the target's rotation you should see nearly zero resistance across the two switches.
You could also try putting a jumper cross one of the two switches and see if things work any better with just one switch opening and closing. Try it with each of the switches individually.
MarkG...you sir are brilliant. I jumped the upper switch and it worked. 
Now I just have to figure out the correct setting as it appears to me to be normally closed.. then opening when the spin unit activates. It appears it needs to be closed when a playfield spinner hole or rollover is activated. Thanks again. This forum is awesome.
I would carefully adjust the short blade of the upper, Normally Closed switch.
Spin Unit serial switches (resized).jpg
As the bottom switch closes, it starts to open the upper switch via the white spacer. The short leaf of the upper switch needs to follow the long leaf for a bit so that both switches are briefly closed at the same time. That upper switch only needs to open at the very top of the motion of the spinning target so I think you may just need to bend that short leaf up a scoche.
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