Was the bell working immediately before you replaced the plunger or just some time in the past? If it was working immediately prior to replacing the plunger then I am not sure how replacing it might be associated with the bell now not working, but perhaps a wire came loose on the coil while you replaced it. If it wasn't working immediately before you replaced the plunger, then it is either a problem with completing the circuit to the bell coil, a mechanical issue that is keeping the plunger from moving freely, or possibly a bad coil (though unless the coil looks burnt it's unlikely to be the problem if the bell was working previously).

Can you watch the plunger in the bell coil to see if it is moving at all when 100 points are awarded?

If the plunger is moving even slightly, then the problem could be a weak coil or more than likely a problem with a switch that completes the circuit to the bell coil (and so a switch adjustment or cleaning of contacts is needed--you'll need to check the schematic to see which switch it might be or I'll chime in later on this when I get a chance to look at my schematic) or there's too much physical resistance on the plunger such that it doesn't move easily to strike the bell (and so you may want to remove the plunger and check to see if the coil sleeve is dirty or otherwise interfering with the movement of the plunger). If none of these solutions work and the coil is weak, you can measure the resistance across it to evaluate it. it should exhibit a particular resistance but should be disconnected when testing. You should be able to see what coil it is (on the coil itself or the schematic) and then check to see what the resistance should be on a coil resistance chart (for example, at https://flippers.com/coil-resistance.html).

If the plunger isn't moving at all when 100 points are awarded and the connections to the coil are good, then the problem could be that a switch that completes the circuit to the bell coil isn't closing well, is missing a blade, or is poorly adjusted or its contacts need cleaning. If these solutions don't fix the problem, then you should be able to jumper from the switch in question to the coil to determine if the coil is not firing at all. Measuring the resistance (as described above) would confirm this.

And I believe I recall that you had a disconnected wire on the M-relay. I assume this is associated with the 10-points scoring (and 10 points bell) and so this might not be related to your problem with the 100 points bell (the large one in the cabinet if I remember correctly), but will check my schematic to make sure.

Good luck!

I checked my schematic and only see a units bell and tens bell. I assume then that you meant the problem is with the tens bell. Its circuit is completed through a NO switch on the M-relay. The coil is an A-3537 and should have resistance of 3.6 ohms.

Good luck!

Which of these relays/switches is keeping the motor running?

pasted_image (resized).png

When you reset the game, the motor should keep turning until after the score reels are all reset to zero

The Reset relays D1 and D2 should hold energized until the score reels are all on zero. If the D1 and D2 relays release before that, check that this switch on the Start relay (SB) on the bank is making good contact.

pasted_image (resized).png

Good luck with your motor issue!

Once that is resolved and you are working on the bell issue again, reread the following post: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/issues-with-gottlieb-1956-scoreboard-scoring#post-6520944

The disconnected wire on your machine’s M-relay is part of the circuit that keeps the M-relay engaged until 10 points are awarded. With that wire disconnected, the relay may be engaged long enough for ten points to be awarded but not long enough for the bell coil to cause the plunger to strike the bell. The earlier post with link above should have enough info and photos to show where that wire should be soldered.

According to the schematic, SB is the last of 11 relays on the control bank

You can't tell from pictures or just looking. For a switch to work 3 things are necessary:
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening

During a restart, closing of the NO coin switch or NO replay button switch should ultimately engage the K-relay. And then a NO switch on the K-relay (which is closed when the K-relay is engaged) should complete a circuit to the transformer which would result in completion of a 30V circuit that causes the R-relay to engage. It sounds like your machine is stopping here.

Completion of another 30V circuit should cause the START-relay (SB) to engage. This circuit goes through the following switches:

a NC switch on the SB relay (which should be closed given that the relay isn't engaged),
a NO switch on the K-relay (which should be closed given that the K-relay is engaged), and
a NC switch on the HH-relay (30V HOLD) (which should be closed given that the HH-relay isn't engaged).

Chances are that if you were working on the SB-relay switches, one of these is now not closed when it should be (or a wire came loose or the contacts on the switch are dirty). You should attempt to see which switch is at fault on the SB-relay by tracing wire colors and then inspecting the switch in question. If after adjusting the switch in question the SB-relay still isn't engaging, then you could use a small wooden dowel (to avoid any shorting of switches--I use a bamboo skewer) to see if you can close this switch with the dowel manually (which should cause the SB-relay to engage). If this fails, then you should trace wires associated with the SB-switch to see if any came loose and then if no faults were found here check the suspect switches on the K-relay (though be careful as this one has 110V on it) and the HH-relay to see if one of these is at fault.

Good luck!

The logic that something in the backbox is to blame as you were working on items there immediately before the reset issue emerged is good, but I am not sure what could be affecting it. It certainly could be worth going back and inspecting the items you worked on (and making sure the jones plugs are all seated well as I recall that this was a source of previous issues).

Was the HH-relay engaging before and you are only now noticing it? If it was engaging or at least is currently engaging, then the circuit to that relay is being completed during the reset. This circuit should be initially completed through the following switches:

a NC switch on the T-relay (TILT) and then EITHER of the following:
a NO switch on the SB-relay (which should be closed if the SB-relay is activated) or
a NO switch on the B-relay (ADD BALLS PLAYED UNIT)

If the HH-relay is engaging then I suspect that the circuit is completed through the closed NO switch on the SB-relay which would mean that the SB-relay is engaging. Are you sure the SB-relay isn't engaging? And by "big 30 volt relay" do you mean the SB-relay (that is part of the relay bank) or the big BANK SETUP coil (the one that resets all of the bank relays)?

Good luck!

The SB-relay engaging is part of the reset routine. I copied this from my post above, but the circuit to the SB-relay coil is completed through the following switches. Have you checked these switches?

a NC switch on the SB relay (which should be closed given that the relay isn't engaged),
a NO switch on the K-relay (which should be closed given that the K-relay is engaged), and
a NC switch on the HH-relay (30V HOLD) (which should be closed given that the HH-relay isn't engaged).

If the B-relay isn't engaged, then I am not sure how the circuit to the HH-relay coil is completing. The circuit is completed through the following switches.

a NC switch on the T-relay (TILT) and then EITHER of the following:
a NO switch on the SB-relay (which should be closed if the SB-relay is activated) or
a NO switch on the B-relay (ADD BALLS PLAYED UNIT)

And so, if the SB-relay and B-relay aren't engaged, then the NO switches on them should presumably both be open. Does the HH-relay always engage upon reset (even after the machine is first turned on) or just during a reset when the machine is already on?

The buzzing is presumably just a nuisance and there are ways of dealing with it, but I don't think it's related to the startup issues. The circuit to it then must be then completing through either the SB-relay switch or the ADD BALLS PLAYED UNIT switch. It's possible that the NO switch on the ADD BALLS PLAYED UNIT is actually closed during startup--I will check my machine out later today to see if this is normal or suggests other possible problems.

And I see I was confused when you said earlier that only the K-relay and R-relay were engaging during a rest (i.e., "When I push the start button the only switch that moves at all is the K relay. If the power to the game has been turned off the K and R relays move. Nothing else in the cabinet moves."). Although you earlier mentioned the constantly running motor, I thought this wasn't happening now that the the motor now wasn't moving at all. I assume instead that these are what is occurring during a reset: the K, R, and HH-relays are engaged and the motor is running and that the SB, D1, and D2 relays aren't engaging at all. Is this the case? Can you check to see if D1 and D2 engage when the score reels are not at zero?

Finally, in the photos above of the SB-relay and its switches, the relay is in an engaged position. Am I correct in my assumption that you manually engaged it to view it in its engaged position or was it engaged like this already?

OK--I thought so, but wanted to make sure. I had watched the various relays on mine during start-up and it is quite hard to visualize that the SB-relay actually engages.

This suggests an issue with circuit to the coil in the SB-relay.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-1956-scoreboard-bell-#post-6578468

As you can see in the image of the schematic from HowardR's post above, a NO switch on the SB-relay is in the circuit to the D1 and D2-relay coils. If the reels aren't at zero, the associated with the RUN OFF switches for the reels not at zero should be closed and so should keep D1 and D2-relays engaged until they are all at zero as long as that NO switch on the SB-relay is closed (that is, the relay is engaged).

And so something is apparently keeping the SB-relay from engaging. If it isn't the NC switches on the SB or HH-relay or the NO switch on the K-relay, then perhaps there is a break in the circuit elsewhere (for example, a disconnected or broken wire in the circuit of the SB-relay coil). If you don't see any obvious breaks or disconnections, look at HowardR's snippet of the schematic with the circuit to the SB-relay and then you can find a few locations to jumper to the appropriate lead on the SB-relay's coil to narrow down if there is a short and where it might be.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-1956-scoreboard-bell-#post-6578080

And I am not sure how it could be associated, but given the previous issue that was due to a poorly seated jones plug, it could be worthwhile to reseat them again.

Good luck!

No, I am referring to the circuit that engages the SB-relay as shown in a cropped and edited image of the one HowardR uploaded earlier (see below). You need to check to see why the SB-relay isn’t engaging (circuit in green).

You would jumper from leads of the switches associated with this circuit on the SB-relay, K-relay, HH-relay, and GB-relay. You need to make sure that you have identified the appropriate switches first. The K-relay has 110V on parts of it so you really need to be careful. And HowardR always gives good info and links on how to jumper when he is suggesting using a jumper and so I am quoting him here:

“Inspect and diagnose the circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-big-shot-repair#post-6305153
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156
“

Good luck!

6C651FB6-8691-436D-B928-E8AFA78E6EE9 (resized).jpeg

Just one fuse is good! What caused it to blow?

In terms of jumping, did you jumper from all places marked with a green X on the schematic above? If you bypassed all associated switches (that is, all the way from the X at the right hand side of the schematic to the SB-relay coil lug) and the SB-relay doesn't engage at all (are you sure it's not engaging?), then it suggests that the problem is not with any of these associated switches. This also suggests that the problem is a short on the other end of the circuit path shown in the schematic (between the the lug on the SB-relay coil that ties into the common wire) or that the coil is bad (which seems unlikely). It could be worth checking the wire connections on the SB-relay coil lugs and then jumping from the lug attached to the common wire to another place where the common wire occurs (for example, on another relay coil lug).

You say that a coil on a stepper made noises but didn't activate. Which stepper did this? From where were you jumping when this happened?

Good luck!

If you're doubtful about how you're jumping switches, definitely check out the links HowardR recommends:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-big-shot-repair#post-6305153
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156

It is a very useful procedure for finding shorts. Another option is to use a test lamp. Look at the following post about how to make and use one and note that because you're dealing with a 25-30V circuit, you'll need to use the correct configuration/bulbs to make this work (and not just burn out 6V bulbs).

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-pinball-circuits-basics-to-not-so-basic/page/2#post-3184715

My understanding about extremely hot coils is that they may die soon. The hold relay coils are always on when the machine is on and so their wrappers are usually quite toasted. Given though that they're still working, I don't think these are the source of your problem with the SB-relay.

Welcome back!

It is certainly possible that something you did while working on the bell is to blame, but am not sure how the bell circuit could be linked to the restart issue. But I just saw this earlier post:

what did you bump? Can you get a photo of which stepper and where exactly you hit? I really don’t see how the issue you now have could have been due to what you did with the bell, but it’s possible that you may have accidentally hit something else that now is interfering with the restart.

Part of the start-up routine is to reset the balls played stepper (which is what is in your photo). As I interpret the schematics, the circuit to the balls played reset coil closes via a switch on the SB-relay (which closes when the SB-relay in engaged) and a switch on the balls played stepper (which is closed if the stepper isn't at zero position) (the "ZERO BALLS PLAYED" switch). Resetting the balls played stepper will also ultimately allow for the bank setup coil to fire and reset the relay bank (and SB relay).

This is good info! Given that manually resetting the balls played unit causes the bank setup coil to fire suggests that you may have inadvertently hit the ZERO BALLS PLAYED switch (or the wires attached to it) so that it doesn't close and complete the circuit to the balls played reset coil. This also suggests that the SB-relay is actually engaging as the circuit to the bank setup coil (the big one that causes the entire relay bank to reset) is also completed through a switch that is closed when the SB-relay is engaged. If the SB-relay isn't engaged (as you previously indicated), then this switch shouldn't be closed and so my guess is that the SB-relay is actually engaging (but is hard to tell that it is). Are you absolutely sure that the SB-relay isn't engaging?

I assume that the "ZERO BALLS PLAYED" switch is associated with fingers on the balls played stepper (probably the finger that you hit with your elbow) and that you may have either bent one of them so that it doesn't make good contact or caused a wire to become disconnected from one. Inspect these (including making sure the fingers are making good contacts with the contacts as it's possible that bending one of them keeps the finger from moving) and then if nothing is obviously wrong, use a small wooden dowel to gently apply pressure to the fingers and wires attached to the fingers (while the machine is starting up) to see if moving them causes the stepper to reset. Then see if you can either solder the wire(s) or adjust/bend the finger(s) in question to get them working properly again.

As far as I can tell from the schematic, the problem with your score reels not resetting properly isn't associated with the balls played stepper not resetting as these appear to be separate routines during startup. But I'd recommend first ensuring that the balls played stepper resets properly during startup before addressing this other issue just in case the routines/circuits are related.

Good luck!

I'm not sure (and my machine isn't easy to move right now and so I can't readily look at this). It's possible that there's a normal leaf-blade switch on the backside of the balls played stepper that opens when the stepper is at zero. Nonetheless, if your hitting the balls played stepper (when you were working on the bell) has something to do with the problem of the machine not resetting, then it could be that that switch is associated with the fingers on the stepper unit.

But if the SB-relay isn't engaging during the start up routine, then as far as I can tell the bank reset coil shouldn't fire when you manually reset the balls played stepper. I tried watching my SB-relay when I reset my machine, and I couldn't see that the SB-relay was engaging--though perhaps you have a better view than I had. You can turn the machine on, restart the machine, and then unplug the machine and manually inspect the relay to make sure it isn't engaging (as it should be in the engaged position at this point if it is actually engaging). Can you get a photo of the SB-relay to indicate its state at this point (that is, whether it is engaged or not)?

And I agree with your notion that something you did while working on the bell caused this new problem (with the failure to restart) arising. Knocking the balls played stepper's zero balls played switch could do this (that is, prevent the restart sequence from completing because the balls played stepper doesn't reset). Nonetheless, the balls played stepper not resetting could also be due to the SB-relay not engaging, but again I'm not sure what you could have done in the backbox that could be keeping the SB-relay from engaging. Your hitting the fingers on the stepper is a clue that suggest it is the zero balls played switch if indeed the switch is completed via the stepper's fingers.

If this were my machine, I'd do the following: First I'd determine whether the SB-relay is actually engaging or not during startup by doing what I suggest above. If the SB-relay is engaging, then I would figure out which switch or contacts on the balls reset stepper is the ZERO BALLS PLAYED switch and then I would inspect this switch and then attempt to jumper across this switch to see if this causes the stepper to reset. It sounds like the balls played stepper is reseting when you manually reset it, but if this isn't the case, I would make sure that the balls played stepper moves well and isn't gummed up (and not able to reset itself). If these strategies don't work, then I would check the connections on the balls played stepper reset coil and maybe jumper directly to it from the ZERO BALLS PLAYED switch to see if there is a loose connection here. If, on the other hand, the SB-relay isn't engaging, then I would attempt to (safely with a small dowel or something nonconductive!) manually engage it after reseting the machine to see if the balls played stepper resets and then attempt to figure out why the SB-relay isn't engaging.

Good luck!

The SB-relay on your machine is engaged. Here’s a bad photo of mine with the SB-relay disengaged.

13EBE0FE-B07E-43A6-8222-9B68D1B51E65 (resized).jpeg

And here’s a photo with it engaged (that is staged to look like your relay bank).

1F12324F-0F04-49E4-9878-97F30863A751 (resized).jpeg

And so your issue isn’t related to the SB-relay not engaging (as it actually is engaging) and is probably due to the balls played stepper not resetting. You should determine why the balls played stepper isn’t resetting by following the steps given in my last post about this.

Good luck!

I was curious about the zero balls played switch on the balls played unit and so looked at my machine. That switch is on the backside of the stepper. In the photo below of it, it is the switch on the right, is in the open position, and has the yellow & red and blue & red cloth wires attached to it. The other switch is the one that completes the circuit to the bank setup coil (and has 120V on it).
2A345B24-FE27-4CD0-83F3-A8A5AA3D37BF (resized).jpeg

I am not sure how you might have done something to this switch when you were working on the bell, but it could be worth checking to make sure it is closing when the reel isn’t reset and the wires are attached to the switch.

And I noticed on the schematic that the blue & orange wire that is part of the circuit that goes through the zero balls played switch is the same one that is part of the circuit that goes to the D1 and D2 relays. If this wire is disconnected or has a short it could be causing your balls played stepper to not reset and you D1 and D2 relays to not engage. As you can see in the photo below of another angle of the zero balls played switches, there are two blue & orange wires attached to one of the blades of the switch. If one of these is disconnected or isn’t making good contact, it could cause both of your machine’s issues. These connections too are close to where you worked on the bell and so you should check this out.
425B6261-F1C1-4F65-B06D-FA1DACB735DC (resized).jpeg

If you bent a finger this could be preventing the stepper from resetting. Check that. If the reset coil is engaging, this is good.

A very small bit of “Super Lube, multipurpose synthetic grease” on the Bakelite disk can work well to lubricate things. Some don’t recommend using it or other lubricants because they will trap dirt and dust, but a small bit will help the fingers glide over contacts and the disk better.

Look at the first photo of the back of the stepper that I posted earlier today. At zero (stepper is completely reset), that metal rod with the plastic sleeve is hitting the blades and causing the outer switch to open while closing the inner one.

Yes, should be fine. Just a little bit is all that is needed.

Look to see that the fingers on the stepper (that you hit when working on bell) are moving up and down OK. If you bent one, it may not be moving freely and is now keeping the stepper from resetting. Adding grease shouldn't hurt anything, but it didn't need grease before so you should first check the finger movement.

Good luck!