(Topic ID: 177326)

Gott - 1958 Dead and will not wake up -

By minnesota13

7 years ago


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#1 7 years ago

Gottlieb Super Circus - This machine will not power up. The kick-off switch is closed and clean. There are some coin door hacks that appear the slam switch has been disconnected with the wires spliced together. All the "jones" plugs have been cleaned. All fuses tested and are good.

I plug in the machine, operate the "K" relay and nothing happens. I short what I believe are the coin switch wires and nothing happens. I operate all relays manually and nothing happens. No lights, no motor, no click - nothing. I cleaned the K relay contacts but nothing changed.

In desperation I ran a clip lead jumper that likely couldn't handle 1A current flow, from After the 5A main fuse directly to the transformer. The 5A main fuse blew, my jumper was OK. I pulled the 1A fuse for the AC coil reset circuit and tried again with the same results.

I find the black leads that I think come from the main fuse on the K relay. I see red wires on the other NO contact lug as per the schematic. But there is no continuity between the red leads/contact and the transformer.

See schematic section associated with the AC main power circuit. Also a pictures of the K relay and transformer. The power lead input to the transformer are the left top 3 lugs with the middle lug unused.

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#2 7 years ago

I forgot to mention that the AC cord wiring looks to have been recently soldered sloppily to the transformer lug and fuse lug.

#3 7 years ago

Can you locate both a 120V hold relay and 30V hold relay? If you do, actuate them in that order. Not sure if these old games even bother with a 30V hold relay. Watch your fingers, it is called 120V relay for a reason.

Could also be a sloppy soldering job. Do you have experience with soldering? Not much to mess up on a transformer lug, just make sure you do it with the machine UNPLUGGED of course.

#4 7 years ago

Looking at the schematic the K relay appears to be what might be a 120V hold relay. All other circuit paths are through
coils. Manually activating the K relay does nothing.

I'll resolder the line cord terminations to the transformer lug and the main circuit fuse holder.

#5 7 years ago

Yeah, that sounds like the next best step to do/try.

#6 7 years ago

I cleaned up and resoldered the line cord to the transformer lug and fuse lug. I tightened up the fuse clips.

If you look at the schematic provided in the original post, I measure 117VAC line voltage at the K relay contacts with the dual black wires coming from the main fuse and the transformer lug. There are two red leads that are associated with the NO contacts and the black wires from the main fuse. Manually operating the relay puts power to the red leads, but nothing happens.

If a jumper is applied from the fused lead at the K relay contact lugs to go around the K relay and go direct to the transformer
main winding lug, the 5A fuse will blow.

Conclusions:
For sure the schematic does not match the machine wiring.

Since the 5A fuse blows with the transformer is directly powered:

Main winding is shorted or
there is something that needs to be opened/operated on the secondary windings.

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#7 7 years ago

Check the SB relay and H relay switches. A problem there would prevent the coin switches and replay (start) button from "waking up" the machine. On this vintage of machine the coin switches or start button waking it up after plugging in the machine.

#8 7 years ago

I have gone through all of the bottom board relays. All contacts cleaned and adjusted where needed. There were only a few contacts requiring adjustments. I also went through the bank relays, cleaned and adjusted where needed, again only two or three contacts needing adjustment.

Holding any of the bottom board relays operated does nothing. Rotating the motor by hand does nothing.

The coin door wiring has been hacked. But I believe there are two bare wires used to coin up the game. Touching
them together does nothing.

This is how Lucas the prince of darkness operates, but have never seen it in any pinball machine.

#9 7 years ago

I am wondering if the AC line direct input to the transformer is placed on the wrong lug. The schematic indicates there are three lugs associated with the 24AC output with perhaps the extra lug for high tap. These three lugs all have continuity that has the AC line input. Could these be the 24AC outputs with the AC line incorrectly attached? It would seem the three associated lugs would be the 24VAC output rather than the 120AC in????

I wonder if the bottom two lugs are the AC inputs. The AC line in was soldered very poorly to both the fuse and transformer lug. Guess I am getting desperate on getting some AC into this machine.

See picture.

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#10 7 years ago

I am confident that the machine was wired incorrectly by the previous owner. I find that the three lugs where one lead of the incoming AC line was attached is really the transformer output 24VAC solenoid power going to the 10A fuse.

When I force the K relay I get continuity from the 5A line fuse holder to the lower two transformer taps. The wire colors are Red from the K relay and White which is where the 120AC line should also attach.

I am going to run a temporary lead between the bottom white wire terminated lug and the one AC input power wire as a test.

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from minnesota13:

I wonder if the bottom two lugs are the AC inputs.

Thinking the same thing. Input should be on the bottom, (or side if that type of transformer). The OP will need a photo of a pin of the similar age or same game.

#12 7 years ago

Thank you friends. The problem was indeed that a previous owner wired the AC incoming line to a Solenoid output transformer lug, how stupid. I don't know the name of who did it.

I ran a temporary lead that can handle 5A to the lower terminal pair, white wire lug. Plugged it in and pushed on the K relay armature and the game kinda came alive. No GI but the motor spun a rev or two and stopped and a coil stuck on in the backbox so I have some progress.

What a dirty thing whoever wired the AC line to wrong terminal accomplished. Good thing the schematic showed three lugs associated with the solenoid outputs as that provided the clue that the AC input shouldn't be wired to one of those output lugs.

We have power but no lights.

Thank you all for your help -- it keeps me calm toward some patience.

#13 7 years ago
Quoted from minnesota13:

We have power but no lights.

Check the fuses and the fuse holders may need cleaning. Many of the bulbs could be blown but not usually all of them.

#14 7 years ago

Just doing a quick search on Gottlieb 1957 and 1958 games (and I'm sure most games from this era), it seems that those double wires go to the bottom.
http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=7&picno=52311&zoom=1
http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2164&picno=57713

#15 7 years ago

If a previous owner had been dicking around with the power cord wiring to the transformer, he may have blown all the lights out.

At least you've made some progress.

#16 7 years ago

I think all the lamps in the head are either blown because of over voltage or just burned out. I have the playfield lamps working with exception of a number of burned out lamps.

The lamp problem was a fuse holder that couldn't be cleaned in place and needed to be removed to properly get it cleaned. So I just replaced it with a new holder.

So I have lights and some action and consider this topic closed.

Thank you all for your inputs!

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