One thing we might be able to agree on, this game has created a level of buzz that any new manufacturer would envy for the release of their first product. I have an ECLE on order but am near the end of the line, hoping for a Christmas delivery.

I think I'm going to have to side with Teekee on this one. Gasp! I have over 50 plays in on a production WOZ and for me it's the exact type of game that I love. I think when the software is done it will be the deepest game ever made. Tons of modes, mini-games, unique layout and mini-playfields, and difficult and seemingly impossible mini-wizard and wizard modes. It's like a super high end top quality TSPP. But the thing with games like TSPP or even TZ is that a lot of people don't like them. The rules are confusing, there isn't a ton of flow, and there are many different strategies and approaches to playing it, and if you're a shitty player you're not going to see 75% of what the code has to offer and it will seem boring to you after a while. Playing a game like TSPP or WOZ is like playing chess whereas a lot of people would rather play checkers and play a game where you don't have to think so hard while playing it and simply hit targets, ramps, or bash toys over and over to start things. For these types of people that ordered the game I think they will get tired of it once the "wow" factor wears off because it is not the type of game they prefer and they will likely sell it fairly quickly. For others I think they will love it hence the "love it or hate it" nature of the game.

Brian, I played the game Friday night and to me the LEDs were blinding but the PF was dark at the same time. This particular came didn't have the anti-glare glass but it shouldn't make that much difference. I did find the game fun to play but I in no way figured out any of the rules other than the bare basics.

so what are you saying Treveism? Teekee doesn't like to think?

naw, its just that I make so much sense all the time that it takes a while for some to finally catch on...

That's odd, our WOZ is sitting next to an AFM too!

I think what we were all waiting to hear from Bryan was, did Jack "F.. it up?" or not?

Your first sentence is the key though. The "wow" factor *will* wear off if the gameplay isn't there.

Oh, you caught that eh? Okay how about 'most all'? I guess there has been a rare occasion when...

So the homeless guy walks in, mumbles some disparaging remarks about WoZ, and next thing you know, Bryan is "watching" him jump in front of a semi?

j/k

The quality and the tech inside is just amazing. Got a chance to look at the menus over the weekend. WOWOWOWOW!

Thanks. Thats how I feel as well. My only "beef" with all this is the timing and the claims of shipping a year ago and the repeated delays. At some point he stopped appearing genuine to me. I understand things happen, subcontractors suck, this is a new company etc but how can he have ever thought games would ship a year ago (that PGJ interview) when the software is just now starting to come together?

I never liked the theme, the layout was like a game I hated (TSPP) and yet I still ponied up because I bought in to all the things he wanted to do and how his game would not get released like a Stern game. Top it off, the fact that the game "ships" with the same problems Stern has in releasing a new game, probably much worse so after all the talk that it would not happen that way.

Ok - so thats all in the past now, and hopefully games start shipping and we move on. I will still buy the next game(s) (but not pre-pay) if they are fun and wish JJP the best.

That's odd, our WOZ is sitting next to an AFM too!

Have you been able to figure out the best set to collect on HOADC yet? I thought the multicolor horse was like a Joker in cards, but I've received some fairly low points for a set of all red plus a multicolor. Seems like one of each color is a better hand to cash in?

That's odd, our WOZ is sitting next to an AFM too!

Have you been able to figure out the best set to collect on HOADC yet? I thought the multicolor horse was like a Joker in cards, but I've received some fairly low points for a set of all red plus a multicolor. Seems like one of each color is a better hand to cash in?

I've *got* the game, tons of plays on it and I agree completely with his comments. What's in the code so far is quite fun and shows an attention to detail in design that's fairly lacking in a lot of pins these days.

Damn Fun Game.

Think of it more like matching colors The sling at the top of the game near the oz lanes when hit changes the colors available on the playfield.

If you saw Jack's post over the weekend in the google groups you understand the commitment that has been made and gained a lot more insight to the current status and excitement level....

We have now gone from it will never be shipped, hate the theme, etc...to now there is a possibility that the "wow factor" will wear off! Sure it will diminish some, like every pin ever produced, its not the end all be all for everybody....its just a great pin and "the worst one JJP will ever produce".....

It's also evident in the pre-sales numbers for Hobbit, nearly sold out of the 1500 SE models! Bottom line says it all..........

I'm excited for Star Trek and Zombieland especially too, but Woz will always be near and dear to my heart, because it got me back interested in pinball again, and I predict as Keith finishes the code, and "its not nearly done", to take full advantage of all of the capabilities, the "wow factor" will still be there for years to come....

It's an exciting time to be in the hobby of pinball!

Ahh, that silly sling hangs onto the ball forever sometimes! I've racked up 3 or 4 bonus multipliers while it's playing Pong with the ball.

Brian, I played the game Friday night and to me the LEDs were blinding but the PF was dark at the same time. This particular came didn't have the anti-glare glass but it shouldn't make that much difference. I did find the game fun to play but I in no way figured out any of the rules other than the bare basics.

Yes, if WOZ is in a dark environment, it's hard to see. Add a bit of ambient light and it's not a problem. They're adding the ability to adjust the brightness of the inserts and the brightness of the GI to suit in a future software upgrade.

Well, for me, the main"Wow factor" isn't spefically that the WoZ game is a winner... its that there may very well be another viable pinball manufacturer for us to choose from.

Im "Wow'd" by many of the game improvements as well (LCD, RGBs, sound, etc)... not so much for the theme (for me!), but it makes me even more interested in what he may do down the road with TH and beyond.

And even for those that never buy a JJP game, it can only have positive effects on what Stern cranks out in the future as well....

meh... more fun to post boobs...

I think at some point in the future this game will have gained in value and be considered a classic. I haven't played it but based on theme and the lcd screen I think it will be highly regarded by future pinheads.

Very possible but that will depend on A LOT! It could just as easily head for the realm of pin mediocrity and fade away like so many others.

As far as value... that's a tough one there. This isn't exactly what I would call an LE (limited edition) and since the standards are basically the same pin I'm just not sure how much the value will increase. That will also depend on a whole LOT!

But isn't that with any pin? That's why we all have as many pins as we can.

No, it couldn't. Even if nothing else (doubtful), it will always be JJP's game-changing first pin.

Popeye is the exception.
That pin should be on the board donor list.

Of course it is that way with any pin!

In fact I specifically had my experience with my X-Men Magneto in mind when I said that. That pin made a superb first impression, great dots, excellent lighting, great artwork on cab and playfield, tons of really cool modes...but the gameplay wasn't there for me, didn't like the way it shot, so none of that other stuff mattered much in the end and I couldn't get rid of it soon enough.

So my point is that, yes, in fact, it *is* that way with any pin. Even the mighty WOZ!

Dont tell Decat that... Popeye is his Fave pin

LE ACDC' sell for much more then Premiums so the same thing may happen here. ACDC Premium and LE have the same features gameplay wise just as WOZ LE and standard do. WOZECLE does get you the beautiful powder coat parts, unique topper and a signed certificate as standard LE features. With the LE you also get Invisiglass and a shaker motor by default.

What other games (besides XMEN) have deep rules that are not widely liked?
TSPP has deep rules and is widely liked despite select people not caring for it.

But WoZ has a very different and much bigger 'wow factor' than what we were and are used to. WoZ has a much bigger expectation as well... so no, this isn't just like any other pin IMO.

Yep. JJP has changed pinball forever with WoZ, and will almost certainly be appreciated for it.

WPT?

I agree. This is why I have my game set so that you can only activate "There's No Place Like Home" once per game.

I get that. I think my expectations of WOZ have been kept relatively in check. I consider myself much more of a player the longer I am in the hobby so as long as the code loves up to Keith's other ruleset a I don't see the wow factor wearing off.

I gather that game did not sell well because of the theme not translating to pinball well and thus not that many people actually had a chance to put many games on it.
There seems to be a handful of owners on Pinside that rave about the game.

In the future, NPLH is going to award more than just giving the ball back, to make it worth all four stages. (though the first stage is the hardest by far)

Fair enough, but your question was "deep rules and not WIDELY LIKED", I think WPT qualifies as not "widely" liked, though, like any game, it has its fans.

Ranked in the LOWER half of the top 200 games is pretty telling... (and behind some truly awful ones )

Well said, and succinctly at that!

Yep, same was said about Mr DeLorean. But I guess after the wow factor...

JJP has changed pinball no doubt and has built a high quality machine here. It will change the way we look at pinball and I hope JJP is around for the next 100 years and builds 2000 more pins! I wish nothing but the best for JJP!

My WoZ comments are not meant to bash JJP as some think. We just need to look at both sides here. WoZ may not live up to the hype, yes it could happen and that will be okay! That doesn't mean anything bad towards JJP or what's to come...

I'm one of them, its a great playing pin! And the rules and integration thereof are fantastic, shot making is fun, but it should be, Keith, Lyman and Ritchie did this one........

Huge expectations no doubt....

And with Xmen, sorry but the left side of the play field ruins that pin for me, just brutal.......

I really like the apron on the LE WOZ

Haha, just re-living that pinball gathering feeling where someone invariably smells like ass.

There were some smelly folks at Allentown. I don't understand the aversion to bathing.

I was surprised to get a free game while I was in the NPLH mode, so I must have been scoring points as well as trying to get my ball back.