(Topic ID: 100946)

Got System 1 question about the Lamp Test

By snyper2099

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 13 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by cro_pinman
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 9 years ago

I have owned a couple system 1's and am well versed in repairing them and making them reliable. However, there is one thing that has puzzled me with my Joker Poker.

When I turn it on, 90% of the time, it plays fine for hours and there are no problems at all.

However, when I put it in test mode, and when getting to test #12 ( the ALL LAMPS test), the Kings drop bank locks on immediately. I know that the drop target bank is controlled by a lamp driver (L17) from the MPU, which in turn powers the under playfiled mounted transistor. This is consistent and happens every single time.

So, does this happen by design?

The reason I ask is because according to all that I have read, the all lamps test would also include that L17 lamp driver which should in turn, power the under playfield transistor, and lock on the kings bank. Why in the hell would they design the game's lamp test to work like this?

If I go in to test my lamps and the kings bank locks as designed, it blows the 2AMP S.B. fuse under the playfield every time. Is there a common mod to keep this from happening besides the pull up resistor (which I have already added)?

#3 9 years ago

You can not do "anything" to change situation - L17 ( unfortunately) MUST go on in lamp test .

Only "solution" is to remove fuse during lamp test, if you want check lamps.

....comes to mind.... did you check coil (A-18318) some (aftermarket) coils are "stronger" then
originals, and (of course ) on coils you have 24V or (elco boosted) 32V ?

Greetings from Croatia

#4 9 years ago

Shouldn't the relay on the PF not let the solenoid pull in? I think my buck rogers uses a lamp circuit to drive a coil and I can't remember it kicking on during lamp test.

On a side note, sys 1 lamp test is about useless as it happens so quick. I have better results in game play mode.

#5 9 years ago

Similar "problems" on SYS1 are with any "extended" solenoid drive ( with "lamp" transistors)
e.g.- Count Down two banks

On Buck Rogers (only) vari-target is on "extended mode" (lamp transistor) and it is.... "inconspicuous"

Quoted from barakandl:

On a side note, sys 1 lamp test is about useless as it happens so quick. I have better results in game play mode.

+1

#6 9 years ago
Quoted from cro_pinman:

You can not do "anything" to change situation - L17 ( unfortunately) MUST go on in lamp test .
Only "solution" is to remove fuse during lamp test, if you want check lamps.
....comes to mind.... did you check coil (A-18318) some (aftermarket) coils are "stronger" then
originals, and (of course ) on coils you have 24V or (elco boosted) 32V ?
Greetings from Croatia

I tested the A-18318 coil and got 4 ohms resistance. It is an original Got. coil/part. That reading is in line with the other A-18318 coils on the playfield that I also tested to be at 4 ohms.

Regarding the "game over relay" under the playfield. The coil for the target bank still locks on during lamp test, even though the G.O. relay coil is NOT pulling in. I believe that the test is designed to operate that way.

#7 9 years ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

I tested the A-18318 coil and got 4 ohms resistance

Looks OK....did you measure voltage on solenoids ? (24 or 32V )

Quoted from snyper2099:

test is designed to operate that way.

+1

#8 9 years ago
Quoted from cro_pinman:

Looks OK....did you measure voltage on solenoids ? (24 or 32V )

+1

I got a reading of 32volts DC at all the coil lugs...

#9 9 years ago

Heh ) ...I assumed something like that, that's a reason to repeat the question about voltage on solenoids.

Solutions....

1. remove ADDED elco to get "normal" voltage ( 24 V )
("bad" side is weaker coils "strenght" - especially on flipers )

2. just ignore everything and do not activate the lamp test )

3. make (maybe) risky "move" and put "stronger" fuse (empirically adequate...like 4A SB)
( check the value of added elco on "24V" bridge rectifier....another option is lower value)

#10 9 years ago

Say what?

Quoted from cro_pinman:

Heh ) ...I assumed something like that, that's a reason to repeat the question about voltage on solenoids.
Solutions....
1. remove ADDED elco to get "normal" voltage ( 24 V )
("bad" side is weaker coils "strenght" - especially on flipers )

I understand electrolytic capacitor but how do I connect it to the 24V power rail and what value should I use? There is currently no capacitor in that circuit that I can see.

#11 9 years ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

There is currently no capacitor in that circuit that I can see.

Take look near 24V bridge rectifier ("output" wire is red) at bottom of the cabinet.

WITHOUT elco on this rectifier (and ALL coils ) voltage is 24 V, because you measured 32 V, you "have"
elco connected !! (somewhere )

Higher voltage (WITH elco) means higher current...and 2,5A fuse blows in lamp test ( because activation
pulse is longer vs. "normal" play )

#12 9 years ago

My apologies but I took the previous readings with an analog meter.

Just now, I took much more accurate readings with a different digital meter and here is where I stand with this wacky system1 crap...

I took a reading of 30.5VDC on the red output wires marked with the (+) sign on the coil bridge.

I also took a reading of 28VAC from the AC transformer wire going in to that bridge.

There is absolutely NO electrolytic capacitor "added" anywhere in the entire game.

I seriously think that the incorrect bridge may be installed, but I don't know if I really care at this point. I put a 3AMP time delay fuse on the bank in question and the fuse no longer trips. No idea if going with a 3AMP is less safe or not but I know that the fuse will blow if the coil or transistor ever becomes shorted for much longer than the 5 second lamp test...

#13 9 years ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

and here is where I stand with this wacky system1 crap...

Haha...I can NOT agree with you ) For sure...SYS1 have "some" weak points - BUT, it is very reliable pinball.
(of course, with few modifications, and quality maintenance )
I worked over 20 years with SYS1,(from 1980 to 2000) and some of my pins made over 100k games...I can't "imagine" other can endure "torture" as SYS1 )

Back to topic...
Ok, you had unreliable measure (at this point my limited knowledge of the language comes more "prominent"
anyway... check proper trafo input wiring, because 28V seems to be little "high".

Quoted from snyper2099:

I put a 3AMP time delay fuse on the bank in question and the fuse no longer trips. No idea if going with a 3AMP is less safe or not but I know that the fuse will blow if the coil or transistor ever becomes shorted for much longer than the 5 second lamp test...

From my "point of view" it's OK

cheers

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