Isn't it funny how the masses have changed their tune from this Pre Expo

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to this?

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^ ^ ^ LOL. I will definitely be the first to admit that I had ZERO interest in this game before going to expo. I thought it looked lame and the pro looked super "stripped". However, even after playing the pro version I was sold and definitely impressed at the flow, depth & strategy in the game. I had a chance to talk with Dwight who did the ruleset briefly and he blew my mind with some different strategies. This game will definitely be a large learning curve, but you'll enjoy every minute in the classroom

Yeah I mean I dislik the art for sure, but when I saw the gameplay I was definitely pleased. I will know for sure tomorrow night when I get to play one, but everything points to this being my first NIB.

Did he mention how finished the game code is? Or how much they still have planned for it?

I got the pleasure at Stern watching Steve play the LE. You have to hit a combo of arrows on the upper playfield to progress the inserts to castle multiball. That's all I know at this point. He crushed me by the way. And he goes watch this, as he put his SSR initials up in one second.

It is GRETA to see the return of the old Derek! I am sure those at Stern are smiling as well! Rock on my friend!

Brad

So getting back on topic; after what we've seen, heard, and even (some) played. What's the consensus - pro or PREM or LE? I really think that mini pf will add an extra element to the home use last ability factor but the speed and depth of the pro seems like a must buy at the very minimum. Yea?

To me here's what matters: which is more fun, with better code? And I say that because the software is going to make or break this. And Dwight seems to be trying something interesting.

But the upper playfield just changes so much, that it will have special code for it that the Pro doesn't have.

And will that code be better, and more fun?

Can you do things on the upper playfield that aren't even in the Pro? Can you achieve objectives with different paths? Does that make for a more varied and superior play experience?

The word is (can't verify) that Steve designs his games in full for the Prem/LE, and strips down for the Pro. Are you missing part of that vision and play experience that completes things, for how he really designed it to play?

I really didn't play it much, I played little pinball at Expo in general. But I watched people play the LE, I was right next to Fattrain's game in that video, practically underneath the camera.

Stern had to rush their reveal out for GOT because of Expo, and so we got 3D renders, not real photographs, and it hurt them. The game looks better in person. I'm not a fan of the Pro though, because the translite doesn't work for me. I thought the LE backglass in person was really nice. Seeing in person vs 3D render? Huge difference. Much less photorealistic and plastic looking, has a nice hand-drawn quality.

And I'll say this too: listening to us, and last minute changing the gradient on the LE to the chainmail? Really helped. That was an element that I admit bothered me a lot, and seeing it all in person, without it? The map/desert/yellow was fine.

I predict the LE will become the favorite once people see it.

It seems the LE/premium will also have an extra multiball associated with the mini PF.

Oooooh , y'all got TRON LE'D!

Its one expensive mini pf too. Pro for me too. The twitch demo has sold that pin. Such good flow.

Extra ramp?

lol ya the ramp is still there. Not sure why some pro people think it isn't. You can decide to not flip on the upper play field and the ball will return to the same flipper while not getting that hung up. Pro looks like a fun game but the cabinet art sucks and it just looks too bare in the upper left part of the game.

Im very curious as to how the castle meltable with work and if it will indeed be only a Premium/LE feature.

I also thought of transformers when likening the flow of the got le ramp to the pro. The pro is a no interruptions true to SR nature speed ramp. The le ramp is really a gateway but technically yes a second ramp. Not really understanding this "don't flip it if you want it to return to the left flipper" ? the point primarily of the ramp after you usually open it via the drop is to get to the upper pf. To let it go back down purposeful during single ball play... well I'll take the pro ramp then over that.

I got the ball to the upper pf!!! now lets not flip it and watch it trickle and drain to the left flipper.

Are you comparing the mini play field from GoT to the one on Transformers?

This game may finally give ACDC owners a mini playfield to navigate while completing a multiball.

Ok, if you look at the two different playfields, you will see that the ramp on the pro is a big ramp. It takes the ball all the way to the back of the cabinet before if turns back toward the flipper. In contrast the LE game turnes the ball right at the top of the ramp and sends it back toward the flippers sooner. The ball on a LE game has to roll through the moon door before it hits the wire form back to the flipper.
So I wonder what the ball time would be for both games, from the time that the ball enters the ramp to the time that it's dropped at the left flipper? I would bet that both are very close to the same. The pro ball travels further, the LE ball rolls across the mini Playfield. But I bet the total time from flip to flip in a combo shot would be very similar.

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It'd have been better all around imo if the pro and premium had equal ramps with no drop target. Exactly the same.

Then have a VUK or short ramp to the upper PF in some way.

My 2c

Both games are great. Again if you like a little more complexity you want Le / pre.
If you like a clean flow game the pro works and works very well.
Unlike the past Steve made sure the important stuff was there.
I would be happy with both but chose the pro only because I like a more unobstructed game . The playfield covers too much for my taste and I don't like mini pinball.
But others will live deeper rules added and a different challenge.
This time it's more about personal preference. I think that's a good thing. There will not be a right or wrong choice just a different one.

Good point

I would bet the pro ball moves faster because it has a longer run, more energy going down hill probably also more elevation.

Speed has to do with rise over run and the pro will have more, when the ball exits the upper PF it'll have less momentum or less potential energy.

I think casual mode will be great for beginner players.

- Added Casual Mode Adjustment.
- Factory PRO will be YES and NO for PRE/LE
- No House selection at the start. PLayers will be HOUSE STARK.
- STARK starts complete so they are one house closer to EXTRA BALL
- GREYJOY starts lit.
- No option to PASS on choose your battle
- If only one house is lit the house will start without a prompt during CHOOSE YOUR BATTLE
- Difficulty, HOME, and Directors Cut INSTALLS will change the setting.
- Holding the ACTION button for 3 seconds before starting a game will allow the game to start NOT in casual mode if desired.

It's because of that pesky drop target in front that kills flow

If the upper pf flows through that well when not flipped, software could disable the upper pf flippers when ramp combos are required which would be pretty cool.

Yea all the fun stuff kills flow: pops, drops, scoop, vuk, bash, orbit post, upper/lower playfield, cannon, get rid of them all!

I would like to purchase your game to save you the trouble of selling it in 3 days.

Why would you love that? You just said you can't justify the money for the premium. If stern eve goes to just one model it would be the premium. I find what people really mean when they say this is that they want the premium for the pro price. That's not going to happen when stern can sell the premium for the premium price. Stern is a business not a charity. They'll do what maximizes profits. Be *thrilled* you even have the option to buy a pro. As all other pinball companies would only be offering a $7k machine.

I'm pretty sure he means back to when Stern only offered one full-featured model...for <$5k, which wasn't that long ago.

Was Stern "a charity" then? No.

They charge more now because they can. There's no need to be "thrilled" about it. Sounds like someone drank the Kool Aid.

I love Sterns, but they're definitely less of a bargain than they used to be.

My NIB Family Guy I bought in 07' for $4200 shipped, inflation adjusted for 15' would be $4800 shipped. Family Guy was a pretty full featured pin on par with today's premium. Today's premiums $6400-$6600 shipped, Good for you Stern, bad for me consumer.

Pros are still around $4800 shipped, but it's like getting that Family Guy with no mini playfield, beer can bash, and pop up center post.

You mean the days where they fired Steve Ritchie and Lyman because they almost went out of business? Then cranked out a bunch of stripped out games like bbh and Rolling Stones? Yea lets bring those days back :/

I have not played an LE, but the Pro is amazing fun.

You could say BBH is part of a stripped down era, yet it has more interactive toys than GOT Pro and in some ways the LE.

BBH - kickback
Sliding target
Elk diverted/bash toy which does also kickback
Spinner
Bird ball lock (up post)
Up post

GoT - kickback/magnet?
- bash toy
- spinner
Up post
Sword ball lock

One doesn't have a great deal more than the other. 1 ramp apposed to 2 I guess.

GOT is a dream theme, but I believe I'm voting with my wallet and not buying any. I'd rather see what JJP or Heighway can provide for not a lot more money.

You forgot drop targets, LEDs, rgb inserts, better license, better custom voice overs, better design, more dedicated code, etc.... And I'm a fan of BBH.

I don't know what heighway pins go for, but hobbit is at what....$8k? And still not shipping. That's a $3500 price difference than GOT PRO. I'd much rather have GOT pro and something like RBION than hobbit....and I'm a fan of keefer. I mean they were all about quality vs stern yet WOZ has been plagued with all sorts of quality issues. Give them another 5 years before they really start taking off, til then keep giving me these fun, fast, strategic modern sterns.

Well stated, Eskaybee.

I own bbh and am getting got pro just outlining the major attractions not all the other stuff but yes, certainly have come a long way since

How have they come a long way "since"?

I was speaking strictly of physical interactive toys. Drop targets and light shows are not true physical toys to me. Neither are voices or licenses. What does GOT have? An upper PF with flippers? That is a toy, but what does it offer really besides a game within a game. The dragon does nothing but flap wings correct?. Also the sword lock is not much of a toy either.

Here are some Stern toys that I feel interact with the ball and/or gameplay, that were executed decently:

The Ship on POTC
The Crane on Batman
Hulk on Avengers
Hammer/Lock on Metallica Prem/LE
The Buck on BBH
The safe on Sopranos
Iron Monger on IM

Pinball is not just physical objects. If you care only for that then stick to EMs. A *fun* game is a combination of physical objects, software, lights, and sounds. Stern has not come a long way in physical object area. But in area of lights, sounds, and software rule sets, they have. In fact, modern stern rule sets are generally more complex and deeper than any of the 1990 B/W games.

Lyman and Dwight are both geniuses. They have moved much beyond the simple adding of code to complete the game features and add code to do things the game designer never considered. Examples: Dwight with medals on Star Trek, Lyman with vip pass on acdc or crank it up modes on Metallica. These changes are game changing and move the modern games from ok to fantastic. You can't discount that because it's not a physical toy.

I have recently sold almost all my B/W games and have almost all sterns now.

I never said they came a long way nor was I responding to you. But, I bought BBH NIB for $4k + shipping. And GOT PRO is $4500 + shipping. Pretty dAm good 5 years later. But sounds like you'd rather save $500 and have a BBH. More power to you.

wrong. I think,, they would sell the regular SM for 6500 shipped and the Pro would have the doc Oc Vuk Removed For a Kickout hole and remove the spinner and call it a pro for 4875 t o the door blockquote cite="#2760311">That is exactly what I meant back to the days of Family Guy and Spider-Man no premiums then

Never said it was, you were the one who referred to the "days" of "stripped out games". I figured you meant stripped as in physical items as that has been discussed here.

What the hell are you talking about?

Agree 100%. Again I was just speaking about the physical aspect of toys.

What physically is on the PF, is on the PF. I wasn't discounting anything. Maybe you'd enjoy virtual pinball more?

Ok?

I never said you said that either, it was John1210, sorry for the confusion there. I thought this was an open discussion regardless.

I'm not sure what is "pretty damn good" or not, or what you are referring to with all these dollar amounts. Again, I was just speaking about the physical toy differences.

Since when is $4500 for a fun game a good price?

It should be fantastic for that money. Some of you guys talk like these are videogame prices. But $4500 is still a massive amount of money for 1 game.

And... It is 6k... Euro! In Holland....

Too early to say if GOT PRO will be fantastic or not for $4500 or not. The initial reviews seem to be on the fantastic side for gameplay and rules while the art and dmd seem to be on the average side. So take it as you will...you want a pretty game, spend the extra $3500 and buy JJP. You want a game to separate the men from the boys, get GOT pro...or some other pro. Here's some pro's worthy of the $4500 NIB price tag:

MET PRO
TWD PRO (now that there's a sound package worthy of the game)
ACDC PRO
IMVE
TRON PRO
ST PRO

Not all sterns pins are going to be worth the NIB pricetag as we've seen with WWE, TF, avengers, etc... But as long as they keep cranking and selling, we'll have LOTS to choose from and thats a positive thought.

Nailed it!

I went pro on this one.

The most important thing to me was that there is no spinners, drop-targets or lockdownbar button missing on the pro.

I might regret it later, but judging from what I have seen in recent clips,
I have a strong feeling that the pro will suit me just fine. No shots are obstructed.
You can see where the ball is at all times, and that is a plus for me. I'm sure that I will change my mind
when the premium hit the streets but for now I am happy with my choice.

Yes, the pro does not look as cool as the premium but there must be a solution
for that but-ugly translite somewhere down the road
(and the premium, while better looking in regards to color, still has some ugly floating heads on the translite)

I keep thinking of the floating head of king Richard from the very first Black Adder eps when I see the premium translite

The translight on the premium will be the first thing I change, given the opportunity and I'm sure it won't take long.