(Topic ID: 106411)

got choggared by a guy in rock island:(


By Damon

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 454 posts
  • 161 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by leonml
  • Topic is favorited by 16 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 45 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

white_slings (resized).jpg
IMG_5132 (resized).PNG
IMG_5429 (resized).PNG
Screenshot_20170406-063124 (resized).png
Screenshot_20170406-063117 (resized).png
angry farmer (resized).jpg
Kevin (resized).JPG
IMG_2582_(resized).JPG
aficionado_(resized).jpg
Screenshot_2015-10-04-11-23-22.png
maxresdefault_2.jpg
20141024_085945.jpg
20141024_094914.jpg
cardboardbodykit.jpg
karma-3.jpeg
karma-2.jpg

There are 452 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 10.
12
#1 4 years ago

To preface all of this: im new to the hobby and have found that the people ive dealt have been incredibly honest and forthright about their machines. I was a little naive about how i conducted this trasaction as a result of that, the pictures i saw were not that plentiful and i took a lot of what i knew about the machine was what the seller had told me on the phone. I shouldve been more insistent on more photos and less trusting, but since my experiences here have all been good, I didn't, it was a mistake. I based everything i knew abput this machine on like 8 pictures and what the seller told me, again big mistake. I bought a Wh20 off a marketplace ad on pinside from a guy named Kevin, it was priced at 4500 and the pictures looked nice so i called him and spoke to him on the phone. He said the machine was just shopped 100% working, nice shape, no cracked boulders or plastics the shooter lane had some wear and there was a scratch on the cabinet. I asked if anything else was wrong with it and he said no, we settled on 4250 which was a little high but i didnt mind paying if it wasnt a project pin. In receiving it I noticed black electrical tape on one of the ramps holding it together, 3 cracked boulders, rusted legs, wrinkled topper, missing rubbers, speaker crackling thats so bad you cant hear much and a credit dot telling me two switches did not register. When i called him to ask him about it he basically told me to "fuck myself" In speaking with someone who knows him apparently he's developed a reputation of being a scumbag. Has anyone else ever been defrauded in a situation like this? Im blessed enough that money is not a huge issue for me so im tempted to just let it go rather than have it become a big drawn out ordeal but idk if thats stupid of me. Help insiders what do you do when you get choggared?

#2 4 years ago

Kevin from Rock Island IL?

#3 4 years ago

New to the hobby and already at 10 games nice! Sorry for your issue however, I most certainly do not think you should just "let it go". Fry the bastard!!!

#4 4 years ago

Seems like the seller should chime in here, if there is another side to this.

-1
#5 4 years ago

PM sent

#6 4 years ago

It's good to hear that you are in the financial position to absorb the hit, but letting everyone know about this might help prevent someone else from being defrauded who doesn't have the funds to spare...

#7 4 years ago

I have been warned by no less than 3 people in Iowa about him. I am sure he is on here and is always on Craigslist and Ebay. We can maybe help you with the tech stuff going wrong with the pin but thats about it. Gotta ask around before dealing with people even if they are in the community.

#8 4 years ago

Feel free to PM me the scumbags name so I can put him on my list of people to avoid.....I'd fry him if it happened to me.

#9 4 years ago

Sorry that happened to you. That is total misrepresentation BS. What a jerk. What is his Pinside username?

This is the reason I won't buy games from anyone sight-unseen unless I either know them, or know their reputation. Scumbags are the minority in pinball, but they're out there.

#10 4 years ago

If this really went down the way you say it did, please let the rest of us know about him so we can steer clear of him. That is really the best thing you can do for everyone here.

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

Sorry that happened to you. That is total misrepresentation BS. What a jerk. What is his Pinside username?
This is the reason I won't buy games from anyone sight-unseen unless I either know them, or know their reputation. Scumbags are the minority in pinball, but they're out there.

2 things will happen:
1. No sign of seller
2. Seller will come in, guns a blazin and try to blame the buyer. Seller will protest "he's lying" or "buyer is new and doesn't know any better." How often do you see a buyer come into a "bad deals" thread and say sorry? They are safe behind the internet connection, no need to apologize.

Sad but unless you ask fellow members, you may not know if they are good people or not.

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from sckurk:

It's good to hear that you are in the financial position to absorb the hit, but letting everyone know about this might help prevent someone else from being defrauded who doesn't have the funds to spare...

Someone else made the same point to me which is why I chose to post about it. Have already had a few people pm me with similar stories about him and its only been a few minutes since i posted this. I figured a post like this is important because had there been one previous to my purchase it wouldve stopped me.

Quoted from Pinhead87:

New to the hobby and already at 10 games nice! Sorry for your issue however, I most certainly do not think you should just "let it go". Fry the bastard!!!

Ive been very fortunate with the games as far as my options to deal with the seller I think the only one is to have my attorney call the state attorney general's office and file a formal felony fraud complaint, but I dont want to ruin someone's life over a few thousand dollars

Quoted from dantebean:

Kevin from Rock Island IL?

yes

#13 4 years ago

Was it the one from "old________er". Not posting the full name in case I'm wrong. I found an old add in archive for a WW that looks like what you described and in the same city. Was a bit more than $4500 though.

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Was it the one from "old________er". Not posting the full name in case I'm wrong. I found an old add in archive for a WW that looks like what you described and in the same city. Was a bit more than $4500 though.

I never messaged him through pinside, I believe his phone number was in the ad and I called him. I have all his personal info but I dont remember his pinside name idk how to check archived marketplace ads if there is such a feature

#15 4 years ago

PM sent with the add. I would post it here but, again, if I'm wrong, I'd hate to rub someones name in the mud. It has there phone number in it too.

30
#16 4 years ago

Sorry to hear but I love how we now use Choggared as an adverb. That made my day!

#17 4 years ago

Dang crazy good detective work it was indeed the same ad so basically this was the ad I saw

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NMZFknUJxFYJ:https://pinside.com/pinball/market/ad/14170+&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

10
#18 4 years ago
Quoted from Syco54645:

Sorry to hear but I love how we now use Choggared as an adverb. That made my day!

The verb is Choggard, past tense Choggarded. I prefer the old-fashioned words and phrases because they are more descriptive: screwed, defrauded, lied to...

I don't understand why people have games shipped from sellers with no reputation (or a bad reputation). I've never done this, and I never will. People are too trusting IMO.

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

The verb is Choggard, past tense Choggarded. I prefer the old-fashioned words and phrases because they are more descriptive: screwed, defrauded, lied to...
I don't understand why people have games shipped from sellers with no reputation (or a bad reputation). I've never done this, and I never will. People are too trusting IMO.

You are correct, it is a verb. I started typing adjective and changed it. Guess I wasn't paying enough attention to get it completely erased. Ended up as another part of speech!

#20 4 years ago

Was the tape on the right of the ramp leading to Bigfoot? In pic 2 it looks like its black?

#21 4 years ago

Yep, thats the guy. Craigslist spammer that just flips pins. Does little to nothing with them, slaps on a few grand and resells. Wish you would have asked us here.

13
#23 4 years ago

Sorry this happened to you, I know exactly how you feel other than the money part. I got choggarded by Choggard. I'm still finding shit wrong with this pin that I'm pretty sure he did, like plastics installed wrong, posts in the wrong places etc. little things really, but every time it just brings it all up again, I can't wait to totally redo the pin to get all the choggard out.

Pins or not, I just don't understand how someone can flat out lie about the condition of things just so they can rip someone off. I know it happens all the time, but I really couldn't ever picture myself being able to do it.

Once this guy bought a dune buggy off me, sight unseen except for a few pictures. I was so concerned about him feeling like he got ripped off that I spent an entire week every night after work fixing all the little things, touching up scratches on the frame, tuning the engine, replacing the clutch and throttle cable. He was real happy with the car when he came to get it, and I was happy he felt like he got a fair deal. I couldn't live with myself if I knowingly ripped someone off, I just can't even comprehend it.

If you paid through paypal you have some recourse as long as you didn't pay as a gift. If you used a credit card, you can dispute the charges as fraudulent, your bank can let you know what the criteria is.

Pinside really needs a seller feedback area, for both negative and positive feedback.

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

The verb is Choggard, past tense Choggarded. I prefer the old-fashioned words and phrases because they are more descriptive: screwed, defrauded, lied to...
I don't understand why people have games shipped from sellers with no reputation (or a bad reputation). I've never done this, and I never will. People are too trusting IMO.

I was/am, im a decent person and often think the best of people it was my mistake entirely. Ill get burned time to time but I've met a lot of awesome people too. I dont want to live jaded and cynical. As for the wording, I was just poking fun is all

Quoted from jrivelli:

How did you pay him?

Wire transfer acct to acct

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from mrobertso2:

Was the tape on the right of the ramp leading to Bigfoot? In pic2 it looks like its black?

Yes I didnt think anything of it at the time and im sorry to hear about you too nextopin, sounds like our pins came in the same type of shape im looking at this as an opportunity to do my first ever restore rather than a total burn. I figure ill learn a lot and have a project for a good long while.

#26 4 years ago

Must be him here on cl chicagochicago.craigslist.org link

#27 4 years ago

Why don't you want to live in Moline?

You can smell Rock Island from there.

(local area joke, that I always appreciated)

Dude that sucks. Totally shout that guy's name from the rooftops around here. Save somebody else from suffering the same issue from the same jerk.

(I grew up in that area. But yeah... that's my home for ya. In retrospect it's highly implausible that someone in Rock Island has nice condition classic pinball machines. I kid... I kid... no... not really )

#28 4 years ago

sorry to hear, the bad news is its rougher then thought.

good news. you actually have the machine in hand and were not totally scammed left completely empty handed. I bet you will restore that thing nicely. looks like a good start.

sorry to hear about overpaying but you did end up with a good title and something physical to work with.

#29 4 years ago

I wish you would have posted before you purchased. I know Kevin and could have looked at it for you. I always thought he was high priced but not deceitful. He may be at expo. If so maybe I can talk to him. I'm here Thursday only.

#30 4 years ago

Sorry about the experience....on a side note you have built a fantastic collection in a short time, congrats

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from rollinover:

sorry to hear, the bad news is its rougher then thought.
good news. you actually have the machine in hand and were not totally scammed left completely empty handed. I bet you will restore that thing nicely. looks like a good start.
sorry to hear about overpaying but you did end up with a good title and something physical to work with.

Agreed 100 percent, couldve been much worse in the grand scheme of things.

#32 4 years ago
Quoted from Damon:

I was/am, im a decent person and often think the best of people it was my mistake entirely. Ill get burned time to time but I've met a lot of awesome people too.

I used to be the same way, it's how we learn. I'm glad you brought the seller to other buyers' attention - I wish more people did that.

Some amount of trust is needed in any pin transaction, but our goal as buyers is to minimize it. "Trust but verify", as an old Hollywood actor once said. I agree that 90% of sellers are good people, but I've learned to inspect games closely even when buying from friends. And unfortunately you can't really do that with pictures. I definitely steer clear of people who ignore my requests for better pics. If they're good sellers, they won't mind.

If the seller sent you pics of a different game, you should go legal on him. But if he just failed to mention all of the problems, you'll probably have to suck it up. I hate when it goes that way, but fortunately most problems can be fixed with time, and you'll learn in the process. Good luck!

#33 4 years ago
Quoted from Damon:

Agreed 100 percent, couldve been much worse in the grand scheme of things.

great attitude! and agreed on a superb collection. ps is that a custom sf2 topper? looks cool and never seen one before.

#34 4 years ago

If it makes you feel better, I was totally screwed on my second game (Space Station), and now it's the gem of my collection. It took a lot of work to get it there, but every time I found another problem I added to my mental list of things I'd always check out in the future.

#35 4 years ago

Sorry to hear you got screwed. I once bought an Austin Powers on Ebay and had it shipped NAVL from Arizona to Alabama. Never again. I saw pictures, I talked to the guy on the phone more than once. It took me about a month to get it working correctly and when I sold it I had to take several hundred less than I paid for it. Good luck with your Wh2o and try to enjoy the process of fixing it up.

#36 4 years ago

Welcome to pinball 2014, since it has become popular these snaprag junk flippers have come out of the woodwork.
People that actually put time and money into these games can't pay what these guys can pay for base games, parts are expensive and Pledge is cheap.

#37 4 years ago
Quoted from tracelifter:

Welcome to pinball 2014, since it has become popular these snaprag junk flippers have come out of the woodwork.

I love that phrase (SRJF), but it actually goes back to the 90's. There have always been assholes.

#38 4 years ago
Quoted from rollinover:

great attitude! and agreed on a superb collection. ps is that a custom sf2 topper? looks cool and never seen one before.

Thanks and yes I made it myself, saw something similar on ebay with a different game and tried my hand at it

#39 4 years ago

that sucks. hope you get it up to your liking without spending too much

#40 4 years ago

Sorry to hear you got ripped off. I think you should have your lawyer send him a letter threatening a lawsuit unless he returns your money. He clearly misrepresented the item he sold you and no statements regarding "as is condition" nor "no returns". That's what I would do. $4000 not a lot of money to you ???? Send me a couple thousand then money bags. I'll buy an Elvira or Creature From the Black Lagoon. Furthermore, I would hope you shop around a little more for good prices in the future. That is part of the fun of the hobby, the hunt for the machine and then haggling for a good deal. The price you agreed upon for the machine was about $1000 too high unless it was collector quality. BTW as others have said I too admire your collection.

#41 4 years ago

Lawyer basically said the same thing, he said i have 7 days to cancel the agreement and/or pursue legal options. Just not sure I want to go that route, if he sold me the machine for 3250 I would've bought it in its current shape no problem so I figure at worst im out 1000 dollars and the cost to fix everything. Im not saying 4k isn't a lot of money btw, I was just stating that im fortunate enough the loss isn't going to cripple me or anything and Im not sure that the 1000 dollars I feel cheated out of is worth trying to organize an out of state law suit. I may end up reporting him to be investigated criminally though since it seems like this is a pattern with this particular seller. Thanks for all the compliments on the collection btw running out of room and I still have a ton of pins I want

#43 4 years ago

Will it really cost $1000 to fix it up? Roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty, it's good for the soul.

#44 4 years ago

Like Mike Wolfe says " sometimes you have to pay for your education". But your loss and posting will save others a lot of money. I for one will keep note of his name and avoid. Probably no constilation to you but by sharing you have helped many.

#45 4 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

Will it really cost $1000 to fix it up? Roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty, it's good for the soul.

Obviously you have never restored a WH2O, a grand will get you started.

#46 4 years ago

Since you've already checked into lawyer/legal options, what about him potentially being charged for fraud? If it's a bank transfer, I believe misrepresentation can bring for higher penalties, I could be wrong, but something to check into.

Tim

#47 4 years ago
Quoted from tracelifter:

Obviously you have never restored a WH2O, a grand will get you started.

Actually I did restore a WH2O, so maybe you don't know so much. I paid $1800 for a disassembled game. I added new mountains and new ramps for about $500, and eventually sold it for what I had in it (no charge for my labor).

The question here is: what will it take to get the OP's game from its current condition to the condition he expected? I'm sure he didn't expect new ramps and mountains for $4250. And yes, I was an idiot to sell mine for $2300 - rub it in if you like.

#48 4 years ago

"LEDED AND HIGH MODED" = suckers please line up.

#49 4 years ago
Quoted from nagamitsu:

Since you've already checked into lawyer/legal options, what him potentially being charged for fraud? If it's a bank transfer, I believe misrepresentation can bring for higher penalties, I could be wrong, but something to check into.
Tim

Its felony wire transfer fraud, sentencing can be as strict as 20 years in federal prison. Idk if im going to report it though, I dont know if I'd be okay with ruining someone's life over the condition of a pinball machine

-1
#50 4 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

Actually I did restore a WH2O, so maybe you don't know so much. I paid $1800 for a disassembled game. I added new mountains and new ramps for about $500, and eventually sold it for what I had in it (no charge for my labor).
The question here is: what will it take to get the OP's game from its current condition to the condition he expected? I'm sure he didn't expect new ramps and mountains for $4250. And yes, I was an idiot to sell mine for $2300 - rub it in if you like.

I actually did expect them to be like new; he said theyd been replaced recently and werent cracked or damaged. maybe i was unrealistic or naive but again im new to all this so theres going to be some growing pains. Figure after ramps/boulders/switches/legs/lockdownbar/mystery sound issue ill be somewhere in that ballpark. It may end up being cheaper which would be awesome and im not an expert by any means so there could be quite a bit more wrong with it then I realize and it could be a ton more.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
6,100
Machine - For Sale
Elkhart, IN
$ 20.00
Electronics
Yorktown Parts and Equip
There are 452 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 10.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside