(Topic ID: 129759)

Gorgar Locked Up (Fixed)

By rottenrobert1313

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 31 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by mof
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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scanbesockets.jpg
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#1 8 years ago

Gorgar was good for a few months but now his miss behavior has him locked up.
20150606_183039.jpg20150606_183039.jpg

I pulled the batteries. Anyways, things were fine except I was having the player 3 and 4 with a segment flicker. Not really a big deal but then the displays were going off completely and the game is locking up. Shut off and on and things were good for a bit. Now just plain locked every on cycle. So....looking around on the net I found this..
Screenshot_2015-06-06-18-48-57.pngScreenshot_2015-06-06-18-48-57.png
So I see IC 19 and give a twist on it and no changes but it feels loose. Good idea to just replace the socket? Let me know if I'm on the right track here? I did reflow some solder on all the male pins including the 40 pin interconnect.

Thanks
Rob

#2 8 years ago

Anyone???

#3 8 years ago

If the rom sockets are original, then you should replace them. The symptoms you describe indicate bad sockets. When I repair an early WMS, I slap the back of the backbox and tap on the boards. The game should not lock up. If it does, then it's new sockets all around. After that it always passes the abuse test. The 40-pin interboard connectors fail too, but it looks like they are new in the picture you provided.

#4 8 years ago

I saw your post, but I didn't want to give you bad advice and make things worse. It's been awhile since I worked on a Williams System 3-7 board. I thought surely someone more capable would help you.

*edit* Nevermind, I see where you said you did reflow the solder on the connector pins. My fault for not reading closer.*/edit*

Replacing the rotten Scanbe sockets is usually a good idea. Some people say the pads and traces for them are too delicate, but I've never had a problem.

Even if the sockets and cold solder joints aren't the issue, it's good to eliminate them first before getting into the heavier troubleshooting with test ROMs and logic probes.

#5 8 years ago

Thanks guys. DoI have the scanbe sockets? I think im going to order a socket and a new chip for IC19. That sucker pulled right out and I bent some of the tlegs on the chip. I straightened them out but made zero difference. I have 4.8 volts on the 5 volt supply so maybe I need to order some parts for the power supply board.

#6 8 years ago

4.8v on the power is normal with current load. So don't touch that. Also, regarding the sockets, don't bother replacing them unless they are scanbe or falling apart or you'll probably cause more trouble than you'll solve. You can probe continuity and inspect the pins on the socket to see if they're in good shape. If it is one of those sockets where you cannot easily probe/see the pins, replace it.

#7 8 years ago

If you can just pull ICs right out of the socket without much effort, then your socket is probably worn out. As to whether it's a Scanbe or not, the name is stamped on the socket body itself. They look like this:

scanbesockets.jpgscanbesockets.jpg

One reason they're notoriously failure prone is the weird way they grab the pin legs. Instead of gripping it across the flat edges of the pin, it grips the side of the pin.

The top three empty sockets on your MPU board don't seem to be Scanbe sockets, since they're open body sockets.

#8 8 years ago

Ok..leave 5volts alone. Got it. This is the socket. Doesn't look like the ones above. So should I just order a new chip? Or should I replace both?
20150611_184928.jpg20150611_184928.jpg

Thanks for the help guys.

#9 8 years ago
Quoted from rottenrobert1313:

Ok..leave 5volts alone. Got it. This is the socket. Doesn't look like the ones above. So should I just order a new chip? Or should I replace both?
20150611_184928.jpg
Thanks for the help guys.

That socket doesn't appear bad, but if it does not grip the IC well or it feels loose, replace it. Otherwise don't, you'll just risk damage.

#10 8 years ago

Ok. Thanks for the help thedefog.

#11 8 years ago
Quoted from rottenrobert1313:

Ok. Thanks for the help thedefog.

no prob. anytime.

#12 8 years ago
Quoted from rottenrobert1313:

Ok. Thanks for the help thedefog.

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone because the more I looked at this post...I do appreciate ALL the help. Not just thedefog.

#13 8 years ago
Quoted from rottenrobert1313:

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone because the more I looked at this post...I do appreciate ALL the help. Not just thedefog.

Most the time, it is thankless, so thank you for recognizing that.

#14 8 years ago

A few 5101 chips ordered. I'm getting extra as it looks like they are highly static sensitive. I sure hope it takes care of the lock up issue.

2 weeks later
#15 8 years ago

So the new chips didn't help. I think I need to rebuild the power supply. Maybe I should reflow solder on the header pins of the power supply first. The connectors look good but if I wiggle them I get a drop of volts off of this test point.
2015-06-27 17.41.45.jpg2015-06-27 17.41.45.jpg
Drops from 10.0 volts down to 8.5 sometimes lower.

Shouldn't it be 12vdc?

Top left of board is where I'm checking.

#16 8 years ago

Wouldn't hurt to redo all connectors if volts drop when jiggling connectors. The original are round pins and new style are square so better connection

#17 8 years ago

Thanks. I was under the impression that if the 12vdc drops below 10 volts it wont boot. So hopefully reflowing solder on the power supply pins gets the volts more stable.

#18 8 years ago

Well I'm at a lost. Got the 12 volt supply line at a consistent 10.5 volts. New Cmos chip at IC19 and board still has both LED's locked on solid. While I did have the power supply board out I replaced the 4 capacitors on it. Also reflow solder on the header pins.

So.....who does board repair? And would you like my business?

#19 8 years ago
Quoted from rottenrobert1313:

Well I'm at a lost. Got the 12 volt supply line at a consistent 10.5 volts. New Cmos chip at IC19 and board still has both LED's locked on solid. While I did have the power supply board out I replaced the 4 capacitors on it. Also reflow solder on the header pins.
So.....who does board repair? And would you like my business?

Honestly it sounds like you may have two problems. A weak power supply and the MPU is locked up probably do to bad physical connections. I see the two LEDs lit up solid on the MPU. It has at least close to 5v to make the LEDs light up.

10.5v is flirting with the breakdown voltage of the LM323K. Add a current spike from flippers or solenoids and i could see the 5v dropping out.

Low unregulated voltage is a lot of times an indication of a failing filter capacitor. Set your meter for AC voltage, lowest voltage setting. Read across that test point and ground. If you see more than 0.25 VAC the filter cap can be considered failed.

I can repair and bulletproof your boards. I have rebuilt hundreds of these board sets, I am very proficient in repairing anything wrong with them. I will install all new header pins. New interconnect. New filter caps. New IC sockets. New 5w lamp column resistors. Clean the board front and back. 1 year warranty. I always recommend having the MPU and driver board serviced at the same time as they are interconnected.

MPU $50 ($60 with no battery NVRAM)
Driver $50
PSU $40
Sound and Speech $45

Thanks
Andrew

#20 8 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Low unregulated voltage is a lot of times an indication of a failing filter capacitor. Set your meter for AC voltage, lowest voltage setting. Read across that test point and ground. If you see more than 0.25 VAC the filter cap can be considered failed.

Thanks for the help Andrew. What test point are you referring to? And are you talking about the big blue cap? I replaced the caps on the power supply. The 40 pin connector is new. Previous owner installed it.

Again any help I really appreciate.

Boards will be coming your way if I cant get this.

#21 8 years ago

Ok..I figured you were talking about the same test point. The 12vdc that I'm showing in my picture above. Put meter on AC and got a reading of 23volts. So it looks like whatever cap I'm measuring is good?

#22 8 years ago

23.0vac is an incorrect reading from you DMM. Some meters have trouble taking a low AC voltage reading. You could try using a resistor inline with one of your meter leads if that is the reading it is giving you.

0.23vac would be in range, but close to what a problem amount of ripple. When i put a fresh cap in the ripple on the 12v line is usually less than 0.1vac.

#23 8 years ago

Heres the meter I'm using.

20150629_211723.jpg20150629_211723.jpg

Had it on the 200 AC setting. Lowest AC setting I can put it on.

What size resistor should I use?

Thanks for the help.

#24 8 years ago

I think what is going is you want to add a small bit of load, 10k or so in line should do it, i dont think will matter much, just dont go too low in resistance, like under 1k. That is a low end DMM and for whatever reason i have seen them give the bad readings on really low AC volts, not sure why. Inline resistor should make it give a correct read by introducing some kind of load.

That DMM will do the minimum for you. Depending on how deep you want to get, consider a better DMM. For a low end but highly functional meter i recommend the mastech MS8268.

#25 8 years ago

Well after watching this video...

I think I'll send my boards to you. Way over my head. Lol.

So how do I go about sending them to you?

#26 8 years ago
Quoted from rottenrobert1313:

Well after watching this video...
» YouTube video
I think I'll send my boards to you. Way over my head. Lol.
So how do I go about sending them to you?

Ouch that guy got burned by Leon's memory test pretty bad. I bet if he would have used the memory test built into the green flipper roms would have declared them bad.

I will send you a PM.

#27 8 years ago

Well like I said....way over my head. I know when to leave it to someone else. After watching that....there is way to much that could be wrong with my board and not having proper check fixtures..I'll leave it to you. I'll check my pm. Thanks Andrew.

1 week later
#28 8 years ago

I repaired Robert's boards today.

I did my standard rebuild of the boards and it was still locked up. Clock was good, reset was good, address and data lines where good. I looked at the PIA outputs and many legs sitting highish around 3v. It was pretty obvious the PIA was bad at this point. Replaced the PIA (AMI BRAND of course) and the MPU came alive.

There was some solenoid driver problems and the 7408 for lamp column 1 had a floating output which made all the lamps in column one light up randomly and bright.

Scrubbed the boards clean and It is burn in testing in my TimeWarp now and will be ready to ship back Monday. It is getting one my nifty 5101 adapters, so no battery worries ever again.

#29 8 years ago

Thanks so much Andrew. Sounds to me that there was quite a bit wrong with it. Im glad I left it to an expert to fix. Looking forward to playing Gorgar again.

#30 8 years ago

Its alive again. Thanks to barakandI my gorgar is working again. Playing great and was defiantly worth the coin to get it fixed. Anyone looking for board work? Send it to him as he did a bang up job on mine.

Here's a short game of it working again. And yeah I know the tilt bob fell off and is in bottom of cab. I just love to shimmy a ball safe from the outlanes every now and then. Lol

#31 8 years ago
Quoted from rottenrobert1313:

Its alive again. Thanks to barakandl my gorgar is working again.

Nice example!
-mof

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