That's good that you don't notice, but there is a difference. It took me a lot longer to buy one, but after the VE was released I hunted around to find an original. The difference between the original and the vault is smaller for Iron Man than it is for Spider-Man though. SMVE feels quite a bit different than the original.

Well, they both have the metal heads instead of wood...but they're both SAM and still have all the wiring - what was taken out to make it 30 lbs lighter? I played Spidey Vault a few times on location, and aside from the voices and animation, it felt like I was playing the same Spider-Man I'm used to. I mean...I guess if I was MOVING the games I'd notice...but when they're just planted and I'm playing - seemed the same to me.

So what's the difference in play?

The ramps on SMVE aren't as smooth as they are in the original, which is pretty noticeable if you play them back to back, like at a show. The lighter weight on the game makes it WAY more easy to push around, which tends to lead to much longer ball times. Doc Ock is even more prone to rejects, though I don't know why. I can't seem to find a reason for that aside from maybe the ball is moving a bit quicker (thicker clearcoat). Lack of feedback on the Goblin shots also is a bummer as you don't notice your hits during multiball that much (though that's more feel than play).

The game just has a different speed to it, and it's just not quite as tight. The ball tends to have a touch of rattle on the ramps, which slows it down or often causes it to fail to make the turns and come back down even on a pretty clean shot. I don't know if they changed how the ramps are supported, if the plastic is thinner, or if there is a difference in the entrance flaps, but there is definitely a difference there.

Obviously you get vastly improved playfield/cabinet art and LED lighting in addition to ditching the awful movie video clips. That's all great, but you lose J.K. Simmons, which is ultimately a bad trade (especially since many of the DMD animations are fairly lazy).

1 - The ramps are exactly the same...even down to the sticker on them.

2 - Where is the massive weight reduction you speak of? VE has the LED DMD vs. the Plasma DMD. That's probably 1 pound. High voltage board and wiring for the DMD are not there, there's another pound. Still has the same SAM board set, with all the wiring that goes with it. Why do so many people focus on weight...is the big screen TV of 30 years ago better than today's TVs because they weighed more?

3 - Doc Ock shot is much more consistent on the VE...it has an area where the ball can fall into. Plus has the much improved magnet for no play field wear.

4 - Goblin not moving is no big deal.

I like the feeling of the heavier wood backbox over the light metal backbox

I don't know where the weight reduction all comes from, but Stern's own documents show that it's a good 30-40 pounds less. And it matters in how the game reacts to nudges and moves. The ball reacts differently. It's something that you'll be used to one way or the other, and it's only recently that modern games have shaved so much weight off. It just feels very different. It might not be a bad thing in the long run, but it's different.

Goblin not moving does matter, and it's ridiculous that they took it out and got lazy with the animations while jacking up the price so much. The game is still fantastic, but they really shouldn't have charged such a high premium while cutting costs.

There's a weight reduction on the SPIKE games. The flipper coil wires run several inches instead of several feet. The power supply is light. There's next to nothing in the cabinet now.

Iron Man VE and Spidey VE are not on SPIKE.

Both Iron Man and Spiderman promo materials say 250lbs for both the original and VE.

The manual/tech sheets on Spider-Man show as 30 pounds heavier unboxed than the VE is boxed.

The stickers are definitely different, I don't know that the ramp plastic is thinner but after all the cheapening of Stern games over the last few years why is it so hard to believe that they are using thinner ramps?

Sterns games definitely got lighter around Tron/Transformers (at least the Pros), my Tron and SM sat side by side and when you nudged them there was a very noticeable difference in weight and pretty much everyone that played them commented on it. So it wasn't just my imagination.

Seems like a typo to me (mixed up boxed/unboxed weights) since it's the same on the flyer, but it would be nice to have confirmation in the real world.

Are we really discussing IM and SM pinball game weights in a BM66 code thread? Well, I guess we must be far in between game code releases and having exhausted Bat Turn discussion. So, what do you think the BM66 next code update will bring?

1 - A surprise mode like Bat Turn.
2 - Minor Villains implementation.
3 - Full implementation of Gadgets.
4 - A ton more call outs and/or video snippets.
5 - Better implantation of the topper.
6 - Batgirl!!

Really depends on how long the next Gomez Drop overshoots as to how much we get (we're on ~3 weeks since the last drop currently). We're now in the 5 month range since release, so the "it shipped 5 months early" excuse is now played out and we should be close to 1.00 release level code. We're at 0.71 late Alpha code.

Hoping for:
Villain implementation

Expecting:
Disappointment

No offense to Vireland but that made my day

At 5 months post launch with software nowhere near complete, I can't believe people are still defending Stern and this game's progress. It's literally unprecedented in the modern era.

MMMM....X-Men too a LONG time to get unbroken...maybe around the 8 month mark? And it still had bugs. I believe Metallica took about 6 months for a really good update and then around 8 to become stellar. BDK didn't get a killer update till about 2 years after it was released. I had STLE for about a year and it's asteroid flashers still weren't functional.

You might be the only one who was expecting the code to be complete by now.

Give Stern credit, they were upfront about the code on this one.

Where the code stands now, the game is a ton of fun.

It's because we all knew, or least most us, that it would be a long slog on getting the code done when buying this pin

Chill out. No need to be hyper focused

It's Lyman

Is anyone local to Cliff?

This game needs some protectors. I'm using the Dark Knight scoop protector...but a newly designed one would be even better.

Was it even fixed? Has that been coded in the most current code?

But the difference in all those cases is the game at ship time was mostly complete. They may not have been FUN, but the GAME was mostly there and it would take longer than 10-15 minutes to see it all. We're at the 5 month mark and Batman 66 is still a very basic outline of a game, a shell that can be seen completely in about 10-15 minutes. But people are still making excuses, blaming everyone except Stern for the ongoing debacle.

I dunno, I sold it after I was basically told "who cares" by someone at Stern.

Mmmmm...I dunno man, Metallica was missing all of the Crank It Up stuff at launch - although I DID think it was fun regardless! X-Men was completely broken at launch...I wouldn't say that was mostly complete at all. Anyway - I won't make excuses - this is total bullshit, especially for how much the game cost and how it was rolled out....buuuuuut - no one should have been surprised if they've followed Stern over the years.

Metallica would have still been fun without Crank it Up, and you couldn't see the whole game in 10-15 minutes. XMEN was a mess, but there was plenty of content (and terrible voices) to keep people busy. My point is that the Batman '66 debacle is a WHOLE NEW LOW for Stern. Literally an unprecedented level of incomplete. None of their pins have shipped this incomplete and REMAINED that way for this long. None. I wasn't kidding, you literally can see all Batman '66 has to offer in about 10-15 mins. I'll time it next time there's a code drop, because I go through all that's there to see what's new and it seems to take about 10-15 mins.

Just a different perspective

If you can see the whole game in 10-15 minutes that means you are a really good player, no matter what anyone says. I'm not saying the code doesn't have a long way to go, it does, but i have had 30 or so different people play my game and not one of them saw anywhere near the whole thing. Most barely even start one villan but all of them had fun playing the game. Loved the art, music, LCD, and had no clue how shallow the code is for seasoned players at this point. Not to mention, every kid that comes over with their parents goes straight to BM, its the most colorful game I own.
I am a decent player and have seen most of what the code has to offer at this point, but it's still fun.

Think of a game like SS. If you are a good player, you can pretty much see the whole game every time you play it but it is still a great game. I know it's code is complete for all intents and purposes but it is relatively shallow compared to modern games yet the theme, art, and gameplay make it a winner.

Not making excuses, not being a fanboy for Stern, just offering a different perspective.
I knew what I was getting into when I bought it and have no doubt it will be amazing when finished.

But in 10-15 minutes? It's not so much that you can see the whole game, but that there's so little content in BM'66 that you can do all of it in about that time if you know what you're doing.

And if you told people what they had to do and they were even basically competent, I'm pretty sure they could see it all in that time, too.

But that's enough about this from me for now. Point made about the lack of content, and I see what you're saying as well. I just wish people would stop giving Stern a pass when they push the bar even LOWER again.

It's not like Batman is sitting dormant. Lyman is working on it. How many updates have we had? 5?

As for Star Trek, the last update that Dwight worked on, the flashers were implemented.

Next drop is due next week. Fingers crossed it's feature-packed.

I agree with this 100%, they should not be given a pass. I spent a lot of money on BM and fully expect Lyman to make it great. Before i bought it though, I thought about how long it took him to finish MET and TWD. I asked myself, if it takes him even longer to finish BM than those 2 am I willing to wait? For me, the answer was yes.
I was a huge Batman fan as a kid, watched the show, had the PJ's, lunchbox, you name it. I wanted an SLE and got one. No crazy youtube videos or begging, just a heatfelt email to Gary about my love for Batman and pinball. I knew if I was selected I would be receiving an unfinished game.
I was selected right before expo of last year and was a little uncertain since I had never even seen the game (other than the flyer). I went to expo and fell in love with the look of the SLE even though at that point it was just a box of flashing lights. In person it is absolutely stunning.
I am under no illusion that it is better than the LE or premium, it plays excatly like either of those but with an upgraded sound system.
In talking to George and Lyman at Expo, there was no doubt in my mind they are huge Batman fans and would see this project through to the end. No sales pitches from them, just a couple guys, with fond memories of Batman, that were excited to be working on a theme they loved.
If i was looking to purchase a premium, I probably would have waited until the code was much further along. I bought MET December of 2015 and TWD december of 2016, code was pretty much done for both at that point.
My entire lineup is Stern. I have had a couple issues over the years and every single time Stern has gone above and beyond to make things right. I have no reason to believe they would do anything but when it comes to BM code.
Again, just my opinion.

Technically he hasn't dropped any money on BM66. Just spent his time working on an incomplete game. The game he has belongs to a guy the runs a route. He works on all of those machines and keeps the route up.

I tried to play Batman 66 at Logan Arcade last night, sheesh what a mess that game is. Yikes, I don't think any amount of code is going to make it any better. It's the layout and physics of the game that are the bigger problem :-/ Sad

Where did you hear about a drop next week?

Sorry to hear that. The "layout and physics" of mine are quite good, and the game is fun to play. Latest code drop made it much more enjoyable, and quite sure the final code will make it a stellar game.

Perhaps you might have assumed it, given Stern's track record. However Stern never came out ahead of time and said, that code would still be in Alpha/Beta 6 months after release. Sorry you would think that there would be more urgency with the code given the hype this game was released with.

You're confused. The pin is taking up space at my house, but it's only because it didn't go on route as planned, so it's stuck here. Am I regretting recommending the OP I work with GET the pin? Yes. Definitely dinged my reputation with him.

And the next code drop can absolutely change my opinion toward the positive. The Bat Turn addition was the first tiny ray of light since code drops began 5 months ago. More of that will help the machine. I'm right on the edge of finally giving the "okay" to put this on route. One more code drop could put it over the edge.

Looking at the time between Gomez Drops. It's getting longer (Gomez only came remotely close to his "every two weeks until we getcha there" promise one time - it was 16 days between drops. Usually, it's about double that, and lengthening over time.), but if it doesn't come next week, it will be the longest time between Gomez Drops. So, it seems like it's coming next week.

You may have already answered this before, but why are you so concerned with code on route?
I know nothing about routing games so this is just my curiosity. I totally get it if you know the customers on the route are predominantly pinheads and the game would just sit and not make money, space is a premium.
If the customer base is just random people in a restaurant, bar, or whatever, would they really know/care about the code or would they put money in it because it looks cool, sounds cool, and is fun to shoot?
Like i said before, the "random people" that come to my house gravitate to it and the kids absolutely love it.
Seems like unless you were going to pull a known earner out and put the unknown BM in its spot, why wouldnt you just put it out?
Again, I am not saying you are wrong for keeping it at home, I am just genuinely curious about the mindset of an operator.

I'm helping build a route and a following in a city that was a pin dead zone, especially for recent pins. There was one other OP that was putting out decently maintained pins, but they were old or Pros, and there weren't many. There were no premium Sterns in town when I started helping this OP. Now he has all Prem/LE out, and they're doing well and growing.

The people that are playing these Prem/LEs that are out are pinheads by and large and they will see what there is to see in BM'66 quickly and then not play it, and it will take up an earning slot in a place that has room for 1 or 2 pins only. Killing a slot with a pin with almost no content is a bad idea IMO. So, it sits at my house, where we play it on Gomez Drop day, shrug, and wait a month for the next Gomez Drop. I will say that Bat Turn kept the machine interesting for TWO days this time before it went back off, so that's progress.

That makes perfect sense.
I hope the codes gets to a level where you feel comfortable putting it out very soon so it can start earning.
This is the exact situation I was talking about.
I have an amazing pin that sits in my gameroom and people have fun with it. I play each new code drop and enjoy the additions. Someday it will be finished and be amazing.
You on the other hand have an investment that is providing zero return, I completely understand the frustration, thanks for the detailed explanation.

If it comes out next week that will be 4 weeks since last drop, that would be relatively short compared to the previous drops. The 2 previous drops were about 5 weeks apart from one another. Here's a list of code releases. Date shown is from the readme file (in most cases actual release date was a day or 2 after that).

0.65 1/11/17 inital code
0.68 1/31/17 about 3 weeks later
0.69 2/16/17 little over 2 weeks later
0.70 3/22/17 about 5 weeks later
0.71 4/24/17 about 5 weeks later

Sorry, I was off by a week in my head. I converted to days for easy comparison. You can see that the Gomez Drop times doubled after February and then have stayed at almost 5 weeks. IF the next drop misses next Thurs, it will be the new longest Gomez drop time. So I think next week is pretty likely (but, hey, TODAY would be nice!):

0.65 1/11/2017 27 Days
0.68 1/31/2017 20 Days
0.69 2/16/2017 16 Days
0.7 3/22/2017 34 Days
0.71 4/24/2017 33 Days
0.?? 5/25/2017 31 Days <- Speculative. Gomez is the disappointment king now and may want to cement his new rep by making the next Gomez Drop the longest ever.

Think your math is still a bit off.

The 0.71 code was one of those where the actual release date was a couple days after the date listed in the readme file. The last drop, (0.71) was available on Thursday April 27'th which was exactly three weeks ago from today.

If it comes out on Thursday May 25'th (one week from today) then it will have been exactly 4 weeks since last drop. Which is still quicker than the last 2 drops.

If it comes out by Thursday June 1'st, it will have have been on the same trajectory as the last 2 weeks, i.e. 5 weeks between drops.

If it comes out after June 1'st then it has the dubious honor of the longest span between drops (unless you count the span of time from Expo reveal last October until actual game release about 10-12 weeks later ).

What's wrong with that statement? You didn't have any Premium or LE machines when I started helping Redline a little over a year ago, and except for Metallica Pro, all the machines were like 2005 or older at that time. What part did I get wrong? You still have no Premium or LE Sterns out. What's the wrong part? (I didn't even bother talking about QM or Conjo because they left their ancient pins to rot and die and there were only like 5 combined of theirs in the whole city). Even currently the pins you have out have an average release age of 2004, while Redline has an average release age of 2014. Where's the part you disagree with? If it's me helping Redline, you've been working with Conjo, too, so the way I see it, it's win-win for the city. Two people who care about pins helping up the game of ops that formerly didn't care about pins for decades.

(I see you edited the "lie" emoticon off your post, so I'm assuming you're tacitly agreeing that I have the facts straight. If you can't admit it outright, I can accept that, I guess, but...weird.)

Man, there's just more to this and I find it sad...so now, another pinhead that routes games is being called out? Wizards are the only ones playing your games, and they will figure out BM66 in 15 minutes, deem it's " unworthy" and not draw interest?

Come on.....I'm calling bullshit, and just wish you were not constantly a downer on this thread. We all want code, we all want the game finished, we ALL knew it was going to be a process, but many of us " pinheads" just like to enjoy pinball. No way in hell everyone of your wizards are beating this machine or walking away in 15 minutes...I'm glad you are that great of a player, but many are not ( including me). Maybe I'm average, maybe I'm not, but I've been enjoying pinball on location from the early 80's ( as have ALOT of people). I play any machine I find in the wild, to this day......

Time for a gut check....you've had it long enough....list it for a pro rated loss and move on ( not 5k above the original price)...geesh..is this machine really making you this miserable? Attacking another pinsider who routes games ( I admire all of them), just sucks .....please stop.