i agree with you

It is a little crazy. The problem is some of them play a lot different, some the same.

Another category they are ranked on it artwork, that has a lot to do as well and that is very different.

There shouldn't be a separate rating for them. Recently, the new models are significantly different not slightly different. It's not just cosmetic. And in some cases the pro may be better. Who knows. Further, pins like "xenon", funhouse, older titles that are predmd some even pre ramps, should have been bunked out of the top 100 years ago. There's no way that old "crap" still holds up. The only reason it's there is because someone either owns it and loves it due to playing it as a kid or remembers playing it as a kid. If Stern released something like that now-a-days, the backlash would be horrible. If the newer pins can start bunking these things out of the top 100 2 at a time even better.

This from the guy who rates based on video games?

edit: wait wait wait...your HIGHEST rated pin is based on a video game? come on man

we are talking on the same pin. just happens to have a pro and le version. and yes in a few years we would have a top 100 with only 50 or 60 machines. that doesnt seem right..
maybe the pro and le version should just be one entrance on pinside database? or one entrance with two subcategories?

Something like that seems like the way to go. They could take up one spot on the list, but you could expand that entry and see the the different versions, separately rated. The actual rating could be the average of the different versions.

sounds perfect

This was discussed earlier when the split was made. Different art, different play, different software, different ratings. There is a second page for the ratings, they go all the way to 200.

Yeah! All of my ratings came from watching PAPA videos. C'mon people! Why should we play the games we rate? As a matter of fact, I just gave WOZ a 7.322 based on pictures and rep alone and gave Stern Avengers a 8.993, even though it hasn't been made, just because I like the movie!

You should not rate games you have not played. Period.

Yeh rating based on emulation is not what the ratings are meant for

If you want another top 100 maybe it should be based off of emulation.

^^^^^absolutely^^^^^

This is the best solution I have come up with for the Pinside "Top 100/200" lists concerning the newer Sterns & JJP WOZ that have multiple models (Pro, Premium, LE, etc.).

Each Pro/Prem/LE model of a particular pinball machine will have its own rating, however, only the one with the highest average rating will appear in the Top 100/200 list. And it should be clear when looking at a Top 100/200 list as to which model it is.
It could be that the Pro model is liked better overall and has a higher rating than the LE model, so that is the one that shows up on the list. If next week the Premium has a higher avg rating, then that one shows up on the list instead. It will just be understood by Pinsiders that the ones not appearing on the list have an avg rating that is lower.
The ones that don't show up on the list could be accessed via the Pinside Archive, or possibly also by clicking on the one that is on the list, and from there, then be able to click on one of the other ones.
This way, for example, AC/DC machine will not take up 2 to 4 spots in the Top 100/200 list.
I believe that most Pinsiders would agree that it is nice for each Pro/Prem/LE model to have its own rating, due to some are (or can be) significantly different concerning artwork/playfield features/lighting/sound system/etc. ....but that we don't want a new machine to take up so many spots in the Top 100/200 lists.

I know that xmen le's will be the last of "Good vs Evil" pins like they have done on transformers and xmen. So that should cut down on them.

+1

camon lets talk about the subject here

i think Pinball-is-great's idea of just the high rated version of a machine should appear is a little confusing. one week you have the le, the other one you have the pro?
this should be like rating a car model. you think a car is this and that, and if you change the tires and the paining yes he will move a little different but it is the same car...
le, pro, no-pro and crap version should be a sub category of the machine, all putting up an average score of the machine. and on the name of the machine it should appear ex "TRON", not "TRON le/pro/etc".

Now you get it. I realize you think playing Madden NFL or Golden Tee golf is the same as playing real football or golf, so I think you should be Tiger Woods. Or to use your example, playing CoD is JUST like real combat. Maybe you should be John Rambo?

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At the absolute least.

I come from the video game side and even I can tell you that video pinball is not nearly accurate enough to get a feel for the gameplay design. You might learn rules and basic scoring strategy, but there is a very physical design to the entire thing that emulation is just never going to get correct.

I mean, the PHOF series is really good video pinball, but my average score in MM on PHOF will NEVER translate to my IRL average. Control in video pinball doesn't come down to physically manipulating the machine and flippers...it comes down to knowing and relying on the game to always make the ball react in a specific way when you do specific things. It's the same way with Pinball FX's games, which are fantastic and I highly recommend for fun video pinball. You can always count on the ball to react in a very limited or specific way when it bounces off of something. Once you have those quirks memorized, you wind up with hour long marathon balls you would never get IRL, where manipulation calls for a lot more nuance.

I completely sympathize thinking they are the same, but if you bang away at both video and IRL pinball you'll eventually see the difference in them both: even if you don't see it right now.

...and did I just read someone pretty much say "Newer = better"?!?! Fuck that noise.

What a crap fest this thread has turned into. Stern should be ashamed for starting such bickering. Can't they see they are jeopardizing our top 100 pins, which in turn is jeopardizing the hobby? (I hope I laid the sarcasm on thick enough.)

The best way to solve this issue is to have all votes for LE and other models go towards 1 position in the ratings. Then when you click into the rating for the machine you can see a breakdown of ratings for each model allowing us to still see and rate different models. That is the best way IMO not sure if it is possible for Robin to set it up this way though.

Though I wholeheartedly agree with this post, I must also add this...Is it really necessary to create additional work for Robin to "solve" this? What does it solve? Does it matter? I freely admit that the rankings were THE thing that got me coming to this site. I also admit that I haven't checked them in a couple of months.

I do like that idea though, TDA if we have to do anything...