(Topic ID: 332058)

JJP Godfather Hype / Discussion Thread

By HornerSyndrome

1 year ago


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Post #1143 Game release featurette video link (28 minutes long) Posted by ZMeny (1 year ago)

Post #2596 Nice review Posted by delt31 (1 year ago)


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#1375 1 year ago
Quoted from smassa:

Keefer on code is my biggest concern. I’d have already paid for one but the code on many of his games leaves me uninterested.

I feel like code in his games are mostly same flavor in a different wrapper... whenever/(if ever) he ends up finishing them.

14
#1664 1 year ago
Quoted from Dan1733:

Remind me, how many people out of the 200 CE owners, 650 LE owners and a handful of standard owners, have any chance of finishing pirates to get to the wizard mode?

A lot of people could get there actually, especially if they want to set their game to 5-ball in order to get to the end of the game they paid for so they can play everything that is in and was promised to be in that game.

But it really shouldn't matter how attainable it is on 3-ball. Is that really a good justification for a company to not finish a product that they sold to customers who bought it in good faith that it would be completed with all features that were marketed?

#1665 1 year ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

Doesn't the beta for Pirates include the wizard mode?

Nope.

#1669 1 year ago

Fact is JJP's coding efforts haven't historically kept up with their games, even when they were only releasing a game about every 18 months.

- Hobbit came out in early 2016. In mid-2018 it got its big code update.
- POTC came out in late 2018... and, well, we know how that one is (not) going
- Wonka came out in April 2019. It got a big refresh/improvement update in August 2021. And I don't know the facts but some people in the POTC forums have said that the coder went out of his way on his own time to get that update done.
- GNR out in 2020, and it's in need of polish and it's last update was Oct. 2021.

Maybe they'll do better on GF, but JJP has a long history of cutting off games while they still need code updates in order to move on to their next upcoming game.

#1670 1 year ago
Quoted from dr_light:

Doesn't POTC already have 5 wizard modes?

So if GF only had it's two mini wizard modes coded, and they never put in the final wizard mode that would be okay? Same situation on POTC.

#1677 1 year ago
Quoted from dr_light:

There are 5 wizard modes. I created one of them. They aren't mini, is my point.

They are mini. You just have to play 5 modes for one of the movies to get to that movie's mini wizard mode, and there are 5 movies. And those mini wizard modes are also in need of a fair amount of polish for score balancing and one of them only has a placeholder graphic on screen while it plays.

#1682 1 year ago
Quoted from dr_light:

You're arguing about game design now. They are full wizard modes, and none have incomplete graphics.

I'm not arguing game design. Game design is a fact. POTC has 5 mini wizard modes that are supposed to lead to a final wizard mode. Same as many other modern games. Many "mini-wizard modes" in games are themselves very good and entertaining modes. Mini just designates that it's not the final wizard mode.

In that case then the On Stranger Tides graphic was just a cut and paste job with not much effort into it while the graphics for the others have some animation for them.

#1685 1 year ago
Quoted from dr_light:

It's difficult to please everyone.

I guess I just assumed that graphic was a placeholder because it's a pretty striking difference what's on screen for it compared to the other mini wizard modes. Mode itself is fine (although they all could use scoring balance).

13
#1695 1 year ago
Quoted from dr_light:

You are though. You call them mini, but they are full fledged wizard modes. The fact that they lead to another wizard mode doesn't mean they are "mini." Game design is not fact. It's a personal philosophy that each designer creates within themselves over time. If it where fact, every game would play the same.

Tomato, tomah-toe. Choose whatever words you want to describe it. Mid-wizard mode, interim wizard mode, semi-final wizard mode, or mini wizard mode.

The word choice is pretty clearly not being used to describe the depth, design, or enjoyment of that mode itself. It's being used to designate that there is another level of wizard mode yet to be achieved. Many mini wizard modes are amazing modes on their own. Jurassic Park, Elvira, AIQ, and Godzilla all have some great mini wizard modes.

#1700 1 year ago
Quoted from dr_light:

Are you implying that the 5 wizard modes in POTC are not enjoyable?

I like their design, but I think the risk reward of playing them often makes it better to time them out and continue on in the game. I think they need score adjustments.

#1708 1 year ago
Quoted from Dan1733:

I don't want to get too far afield in a GF thread.
But why would it take more than 5 minutes to program a "final" wizard mode on POTC? Hit all the major shots twice. Or maybe hit all of the 22 characters. Very final shot is shooting the queen anne one last time. Start all over again.
Done! I've just "programmed" the final wizard mode.

Lol and that seems to be way more effort than JJP has put into it so far.

#1719 1 year ago
Quoted from dr_light:

- I know the final mode isn't in POTC. I am not arguing that, just that everything else in POTC is finished.

If by "finished" you mean the features are in the game, then yes all other main features are in the game.

But even setting aside the Ultimate Wizard Mode, POTC still has bugs and other items that need to be addressed (including one in Liar's Dice that ends the game), and some of those fixes & polish are apparently in the 2+ year-old Beta version.

Game was released in fall 2018 and only received 2 main updates in Dec. '18 and April '19. Beta is over 2 years old now. Still a lot of bugs, etc to address to have POTC considered finished.

#1896 1 year ago

That clip really does sound like they used a background music and sound package similar to Wonka & TS4 and then just added some machine gun noises to it.

#1916 1 year ago
Quoted from mrossman5:

Are you able to comment on whether the lighting/sounds will be tweaked in future updates?

And does everything stack with everything?

18
#2152 1 year ago
Quoted from yancy:

Played a couple different LEs last night, some quick impressions.
Sounds are much less wozzy in person. I don't know why the video came across that way, but I wasn't really bothered in person. I wouldn't say I loved the music & sounds, but they didn't really stand out to me, for better or worse. Maybe I'm just accustomed to what a JJP sounds like at this point.
Flippers are MUCH improved. Easily shoots better than any JJP ever, hands down. I am one of the biggest longtime critics of their game feel, which I generally detest, but credit where it's due, they changed something, and it seems to have worked. There are a couple long ramp shots up the middle, nailed them consistently no problem, with strength to spare. If there's any fade I didn't play long enough to notice it.
Slingshots are better than TS4, which if I heard correctly actually had weaker coils than standard. These feel back to normal I suppose, no weak ping-pong effect but no hard Stern snap either. They're fine.
Gameplay is, I have say, overwhelming, borderline indecipherable. At first I can make sense of things when nothing is running, but it's pretty easy to get into a couple of the multiballs, and when you get into one, hoo boy. Everything seemingly stacks with everything. All the games I played had at least one three-MB stack, at once I'm pretty sure I stacked a 4th, but who could tell. Each with its own rainbow seizure of LEDs going, plus whatever mode(s) you start without even trying.
Best comparison I can think of is, I'm not a good POTC player, but once or twice I've had like 4 or 5 of the movie mutliballs running, where the whole game just goes nuts. GF is like that, except waaay easier to start. I was getting the megastack every game. Folks who like that will love this. It is just too much for me.
I think I'd really enjoy the gameplay as described in the featurette, but I feel like most of the rewarding stuff or complex strategy will be obscured by the megastack, with no real feeling of accomplishment. I guess owners who study and play it a bunch will eventually gain comprehension of the rainbow multiball blur.

I really feel like the stack-stack-stack-stack code overwhelms the design/layouts in POTC and GNR, and now it sounds like the same thing going on in GF. An average design can be a great game to play if there's good code to go with it. A great design can be an average game to play if code doesn't mesh with it.

The approach of "go ahead and start anything while anything else is running" ends up losing the player's interest for where the shots are and when they need to be hit because it eventually turns into "just hit anything at all times". It just becomes a scatter shot drill. On GnR I find that I don't really even feel a need to hit shots from the upper right flipper. And yes there are certainly a lot more features in the code in those games than this and you can play them in a more nuanced way to try to activate all the features/patches/powers. But when "start everything at all times" is the predominant structure of the code it unfortunately ends up dominating the design.

#2158 1 year ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

Can I set up my G&R this way?

Regardless of what settings options are available, you don't have a choice in the matter if you're playing on location. You're stuck with whatever the base code defaults are.

#2414 1 year ago
Quoted from sevenrites:

Not my reason. I’m mostly just sick and tired of complaints that can easily be resolved with a little effort to adjust settings. I don’t care what people like or if they don’t like what I like but don’t come in here and piss and shit all over things you can easily change. It’s ridiculous. We also get haters who can’t afford stuff who like to piss on those who can. And people who just piss on JJP cause it’s JJP. Whatever.
Don’t like it? Not buying it? Why the fuck are they in the thread then? Just to be a dick? Plenty of games I don’t care for but I don’t feel the need to go into hype and owners threads and let it all out and shit all over their excitement. The world needs less of those types of people.

- Sent from my iPhone.

There’s a lot of location play, and anyone looking to play this on location is stuck with the default settings.

It of course comes down to personal preference as to whether or not someone likes the default settings of multiball heavy and unlimited stacking code. And it’s good that there’s a variety of machines to choose from.

But it’s not just a matter of changing settings for a lot of players so their feedback/opinion is based on the game they can play on location.

#2586 1 year ago
Quoted from Mattyk:

Watching the stream. I asked twice how each MB is started. Ignored both times. Maybe it’s because I am critical that every game they play has at least two MBs started.
But honest question. Does anyone know how to start them? Is it just a couple of switch hits to qualify?

Each MB is represented in one of the four main sections of the LCD. There’s a text blurb saying what needs to be hit for each one. One is sling & pop hits. One is defeating bad guys. One is locking on the right lock/captive area. And one is locking through the left orbit.

#2587 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Isnt that part of the problem, JJP seems to abandon the code. At least thats the complaint with Erics previous 2 games. Hopefully nobody bought this cause FOMO.
Has Eric ever actually addressed lingering code from multiple pins?

A couple years ago on stream they said no updates for Pirates until the final wizard mode is done. Even though there’s a bunch of fixes and tweaks that need to be made and which have been in beta for over two years now. Pretty poor way to treat customers who bought that game.

#2663 1 year ago
Quoted from Galooch:

If that is true, I would venture to say that, with GF now out (with what appears to be mostly complete code), the team is looking to put themselves in a better position to turn their sights back on the various betas they have in their pipeline? If it’s not true, apologies for contributing to the noise and move along…..nothing to see here and I guess we will learn eventually why they are moving away from Scorbit.
I know the ridicule this comment may get from others but piecing a few of these observations together makes me think the next few weeks/months may see a quicker code release cadence.
From a strategic and prioritization perspective, it only makes sense to me that they have been mainly focused on GF to get that in great shape and out the door for launch. And then, that potentially gives you a small window of opportunity (before the next big code push comes for the next game) to really take a hard look back at everything else you have been chipping away at. Given time and resource constraints, sometimes difficult changes are needed to really move the needle on all the OTHER things they also want to get out the door….POTC final wizard mode included . I’m just guessing that Scorbit didn’t make the cut?

This is what everyone always hopes about code when a new JJP game comes out, but it's never been reality. They just move on to whatever the next project in their pipeline is because that's where the next payday is.

Even when JJP games were released 18 months apart they weren't keeping up with code on prior games. And their continued silence about POTC (and now also GnR) code says it all. They don't seem to have any urgency to prioritize updating them and they don't say a peep about it. Not even so much as a statement saying they even care about getting it done.

At this point they should be at least willing to answer the yes/no question of whether or not they will finish Pirates code and if yes what's the thinking on timeline? 1 year? 2 years? More? At this point, owners of both Pirates and GnR deserve some basic acknowledgment like this so they know what to expect.

#2713 1 year ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

It's a shot multiplier. Value depends on ball path.
[quoted image]

This is some Dwight Sullivan style multiplier craziness here. So if you use a max 10x weapon and then get a right wire return for another 2x you're going to get a 20x multiball jackpot on your next shot (cuz let's face it you'll be in multiball). And that shot could be 50x or even 100x if you shatz it. And maybe even pretty easy to get 100x if you can just ski pass from the left inlane over to hit the right inlane target.

#2856 1 year ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

There's not really a debate. GnR owners that have tried Eskaybee's recommended settings can tell you it absolutely cuts the multiball frequency and makes the game more fun overall. There's only two camps - those that have tried it, and those that keep complaining but haven't. Godfather will be the same way.

3rd camp is location players (a larger group than owners at home) who don't have a choice, and who get bored with GnR after a couple games because it's too multiball heavy. They can't change the settings, but their thoughts/opinions of the game are still valid because it's the game that was produced and designed for them to play. This is how the game was made to be played on location by the person who designed the code, and operators aren't likely to change that.

And a fun part of pinball is playing on location together with other people who enjoy a game. It's good that there are lots of choices of games available to play to suit a variety of personal preferences. But it shouldn't be considered good for default code in a game to not appeal to a pretty good chunk of players. And when I'm at local pinball gatherings it's a large percentage of people who don't have fun playing GnR even though we know the rules about boost MB, patches, etc because everything is just drowned out by the constant MBs. A number of times I've seen people notice free credits sitting on GnR and still pass it by because they just don't want to play it again. And resale activity/pricing on the game seems to back that up.

I'll make this analogy. In a video game like Call of Duty or any other battle game, there are weapons upgrades that are earned and/or acquired as you progress through the game. Imagine just getting every weapon and power up almost immediately after starting the game, so it just becomes hitting the buttons and spraying shots around like crazy immediately after starting it. Might be fun to play a time or two, but after that it would get a bit boring because any interesting stuff in the game is drowned out by the continual chaos of just pushing buttons and hitting something with every shot because it's almost impossible to miss anything on a shot.

Godfather seems like it's already gone too far down this path in code for them to change the design of code now. Will be interesting to see if it ends up similar to GnR as a game considered by most everyone as looking good to the eye but considered by a lot of people to be not a lot of fun to play repeatedly.

#2857 1 year ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

I think most people in on GF want to experience the game as-designed

Definitely this.

#2859 1 year ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

The bigger problem with GnR on location is the fade is no joke, due in large part to the immediate and ongoing multiballs. On GnR, fade comes on hard and fast and really reduces potential enjoyment of the game on location. It's one of a handful of pins where I say it absolutely positively needs active cooling. No ambiguity - it HAS to have it.
Also, to a lesser degree, the magnet dying because of JJP's head-scratcher of a choice to use a thermal switch for temperature regulation when it doesn't have enough cycles to last in a pinball machine environment and inevitably dies, disabling the magnet permanently.

True, but even stepping up to a GnR that hasn't been played for an hour the flippers still have that JJP weak feel. Sounds like they've cleared that up on Godfather, and it would be better if they had default code design that let the GF layout and those 29 ball paths really shine with the stronger flippers. But they make their games the way they make them, so it is what it is.

#2887 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I think the reason people didn't cry constantly about MB on POTC is, they were harder to start.
Yellow: Sink the Dauntless
Blue: 5 non-consecutive loops
Red: Hit all 9 major shots in the game
Green: lock 3 balls
Purple: Spinner rips to the depths
None of that is likely to happen accidentally. Maybe red is most likely, but you're unlikely to build the stack unless you're doing it intentionally.
Contrast with Guns:
Lights: hit the lights target on the UPF (I think only twice by default)
Pyro: Pyro target behind Slash hat / nearby sling, takes 2-3 hits IIRC
AMP: Light the AMP lane
Crowd: Skill shots to fill the meter, under flipper shot
My guess is lights and pyro start, people don't know why, and cry. The lengthy in-song MB experience likely adds to that.
I still think stacking all the POTC MBs is one of the greatest things in pinball, and I only wish they'd added a reward for stacking all 4 in Guns.
"4444" maybe?

Yep I wouldn’t change POTC MB stacking since like you mentioned they each take several shots to qualify. It doesn’t feel like a MB was just gifted to you. And if you want to get them all going together then you probably want to start yellow and then Tortuga first since doing the cannon shot and collecting gold while in MB isn’t super easy, so there’s still a challenge in that thanks to the layout design. Also, add-a-balls are more challenging to get and ball saves are shorter.

I’d maybe change the ability to start new modes while still in MB though. That unlimited mode stacking is still a bit much for my preference. But for me on that game the unique layout (and needing to hit all shots in the layout) and the rocking ship with cannon shot still makes it fun to play.

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