I'm sure they are, all they had to do was make it Toy Story and have some elements of all the movies then replace the ipad screen with a mech/toy. Would have probably doubled or tripled their sales even at 12/15K.

I purchased your translite for my Shadow and I loved that so don’t be too quick

You could argue the jump ramp is just another ball diverter that diverts the ball vertically. Ie. It is not a toy.

Doesn’t the ball hit that with a fast exit from the reverse ramp return?

Yes, the ball rockets down the straight return, whips up to the switch, and bounces back down to the flipper very quickly, I honestly can't think of a faster ramp return to a flipper. It's a great design.

Making it a shot multiplier means you're rewarded from shooting quickly on the fly. It's a great meshing of an original design idea with code.

If I had to guess, I'd say it triggers a multiball.

Nope. Doesn't meet the requirements for multiball.

Too hard.

I just played the game at GAP and I’m now even more stoked. It’s pretty fantastic.

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Love that ball return. On paper you would think it disrupts the flow, but it’s super fast.

It's a shot multiplier. Value depends on ball path.

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Anybody have any idea what the engineering dept. did to improve flipper snap and feel?

Did Jack Danger do A stream for the Godfather?

This is some Dwight Sullivan style multiplier craziness here. So if you use a max 10x weapon and then get a right wire return for another 2x you're going to get a 20x multiball jackpot on your next shot (cuz let's face it you'll be in multiball). And that shot could be 50x or even 100x if you shatz it. And maybe even pretty easy to get 100x if you can just ski pass from the left inlane over to hit the right inlane target.

My *guess* is it has to do with their board revision debuted with TS4, plus additional code revision to work with it since the board's TS4 debut. But it's only a guess. I hope to know more once I have GF in house soon.

Thanks

A jump ramp that pops up out of the playfield that also has two moving posts next to it, the pop up character mech, and the spinning disk. Those are the 3 big items. Not mentioning other minor items as those are not toys. How can you miss those items?

You mentioned the spinning disk for Godfather as a toy. Ok, that’s it. The other items don’t interact with the ball at all. Please don’t list diverters, drop targets, and slings as toys lol.

Godfather looks cool and fun but when it comes to actual meaningful mechs and toys I would say Toy Story has it easily beat. There isn’t a single large toy or feature that interacts with the ball in Godfather other than the spinning disk. Toy Story has the jump ramp, pop up character mech, and a spinning disk so 3x as much right for what some people claim is an empty game? Lol.

Lol that’s ridiculous. A ramp that literally pops up out of the playfield and launches the ball across the playfield is in no way comparable to a simple divertor that drops the ball down another path on a flat surfaces. This type of comment is a desperate attempt to prop up Godfathers “toys” and downplay the ones in Toy Story. The one toy that interacts with the ball in Godfather, a spinning disk, is something TS already has.

One last thing, I’ve had a bunch of people play Toy Story at my house and everyone loves trying to hit that jump ramp. Guess how many people have commented about a diverter moving a ball to a different flat path? Zero. Guess how many people get excited about a magnet grabbing a ball on an orbit and dropping it into the pops? Zero lol.

Not sure what you are talking about as Toy Story 4 still has more major mechs and features in it. The one toy that interacts with the ball in Godfather, a spinning disk, is something TS already has. So yeah Toy Story 4 has a giant iPad but also has 3x as many major mechs as Godfather lol (see above).

Am I tripping or did JJP already use a city back drop in Dialed in and now it's in Godfather?

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Maybe, Yes, and no

Anytime you enumerate TS4's toys, I gotta wonder, why on earth don't you have a No Good Gofers? It has the same set of toys, but all three are done better in NGG. 2 heads (instead of one) that animate up and down when they talk trash, a slam ramp with 5 possible outcomes of the shot instead of just 2, and a bigger spinning wheel that helps accelerate slamramp shots. You really need NGG if you like those toys

I would like to own that game but don’t have enough room. Fun game and that hole in one shot is epic.

Also, Bally Williams game are too shallow IMO to take up one of the 6 pin spots I have. Modern rulesets help keep games interesting for years and have something to always go after. I’ll have to play NGG on my virtual pin.

I didn't compare the mechs in either game but stay triggered and downvote away

Does a toy need to phyusically interact with the ball to be considered a toy?
Does a mechanism need to have some artistic/theme related element to be considered a toy?

I think we recognize a great toy has both elements and the best toys have some degree of player control too.

You live in Detroit. Sell a game and buy another house or two, boom- plenty of room!

No Scorbit on GF and JJP pulled it on existing JJPs. Not a good good look for JJP removing items (ie playfield lcd screen) and charging more money.

Those are good points, the definition can certainly differ from person to person.

Did anyone else notice this is the 50th anniversary game of The Godfather. A movie that came out in March 1972. And it’s March 2023.

Now I wasn’t a math major… but yeah. I guess they technically squeezed it in before the end of the 50th year

What about something like AFMs saucer, it is never touched by the ball but reacts immediately to target hits below it. Definitely an interactive toy in my book.

I don't mind them removing some elements and adding others. I just like to see where my money is going. It's also somewhat relative compared to the value other manufacturers are offering.
If they remove an LCD display but add a bunch of mechs to make the physcial gameplay more interesting, I'm okay with that. But, I still want exellent theme integration and something that brings a 'wow' factor.

I like the screen on POTC trying to guide the player. I think putting a screen in the apron with a dynamic rule card makes a lot of sense. (Especially if you like turning down the instruction voice callouts)

Yes, it's hard to make a strict definition as how it's implemented in the game can make a big difference. If you think of the "Saucer Toy" as including the target bank, side targets after the bank drops and the drop target in back, then it has plenty of ball interaction.

I thought TS4 CE sold out in minutes remember no one had them?

JJP did a article/news release on TS4 being the fastest sold out pin ever.

JJP still can’t ‘limit’ numbers on CE and LE. JJP’s will be able to purchase nib for years to come. Probably cheaper.

True and agree but I’m not seeing the replacement here. It just seems like a cost cutting exercise. Removing the Scorbit feature from existing JJP pins tho seems pretty scandalous. “Hey we don’t to support this anymore so here have this brick”

That was a Monday.

The next day distributors were calling people back and asking if they wanted one.

LTG : )

Is that Roger Clemens that has that high score?

Wow I quit this thread is whack!!!

I hear you. After seeing the release video from SDTM, I wonder if the development costs for GF were much higher than their other machines.
Still, with TS4 and now GF, there appears to be a move towards reducing the BOM at JJP.

For those who may not know, Jack was a distributor for Stern. It was a rough time in pinball and he wasn't happy with the stripped down games Stern was putting out, like NBA. So, he started JJP with the mission statement that they were going to offer a premium machine at a premium price.

At that time (around 2010), WOZ was announced at a pre-order price of $6500 (increased to $7500 after release),when Stern was charging about $4000. So, a 60% premium!

I still think JJP offers the premium machine in terms of BOM and build, but the gap has narrowed a lot, as has the price gap.
GFCE=$15k vs FFCE = $13k, is a 15% premium
GFLE=$12k vs FFpre=$9.7k, is a 24% premium

FF is more premium than GF at a lower price. So what is JJPs niche now? Less for more?

I played a Wonka LE today and was stuck by the richness of the PF (when compared with GF). Big difference. Hey, grocery stores are giving us "less for more", so why not pinball? Sucks.

Just played it at Reboot. I’m torn on what to think.

It’s a cool game. Callouts are soso. Shots and ball paths are cool. It’s missing something like that awesome mech you want to hit. The center shot didn’t seem satisfying. Lots of neat stuff and ball paths.

I’d give it a B. I’ll play more and see if it changes.

Then the cancellations rolled in a week or two later. Sold into the dealer channel is different than sold through.

Uh, no. Reality check: JJP LE is ABOVE a Stern LE BoM-wise. It has more than a Stern LE. Always has. And, the JJP CE is in a class by itself, way above a Stern SLE.

Trying to compare a JJP LE to a Stern Premium isn't even close to apples to apples because you're missing invisiglass, 27" screen, shaker motor, headphone jack, full playfield RGB lighting, camera, hotrails. Add those missing Prem options up IF Stern even offers them - it's not even close.

Game is fun as hell. Period. Rules somewhat comprehensible too. Multipliers are brilliant.

So much blah blah typing. Just go play one when you can. “Try harder” just screwing around. 100+ second game. 1 billion totally possible with a controllable 10x multiplier and stacking.

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Ok Cya in a couple hours...

This was the last straw!!!WTF

It was generous of you to say multiple hours.

It’s called Alien.

Based on comparing and contrasting the games I have from JJP and Stern that’s def true.

Fun night last night with friends. Fish fry and beer. Somebody over served me!

All of what you describe above and then some, go into making a GREAT PINBALL EXPERIENCE.

GNR is a great example. There are plenty of games to focus on scoring and AIQ type rules.

I’m a HUO guy. Don’t care about tourneys or league. When GNR gets flipped on and that rock concert starts it’s wow fun factor!

These new games won’t hold the value, any of them, that’s ok. Not sure most people have grasped that concept yet in this pinball orgy of new games coming out!!!