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The best scenario at this point is for JJP to stop production, fix the issue (at least remove artwork around all posts), and then provide owners of affected games new updated unpopulated playfields (yeah, should be populated but they won't do that).
Quoted from NC_Pin:Same here....but surely they will have it fixed by then? I mean, they can't keep doing this and stay in business....right?
They were supposed to have this issue fixed with Wonka but that never happened. I have zero confidence right now in JJP playfields unless they come out, actually address the issue, and finally resolve it.
Quoted from seenev:Anyone else just feel like giving up on this hobby? How many issues have there been with games in the last few years? Insert ghosting, cabinet splitting, clear coat chipping, pooling, dimpling, etc etc etc. Getting a decent game is like winning the lottery.
I feel confident at this time buying a NIB Stern who resolved the chipping / pooling issue by removing artwork around all posts. They still have issues with ball guides occassionaly digging into playfields but it's nothing on the level of what JJP is experiencing.
Just got a NIB TMNT Premium last week and the playfield looks perfect. For now I've delayed my GNR LE order in hope the playfield issues get resolved. If they don't I'll just buy another Stern.
I want to buy a GNR LE, it's one hell of an awesome pin. However, I just feel uncomfortable buying at this time due to the amount of customers reporting issues. At these prices it's not acceptable and by buying a game from JJP right now I feel that I would only be supporting a bad business practice.
Quoted from High_End_Pins:Same process I just detailed on a direct off the shelf Mirco IJ. [quoted image][quoted image]
Tight. [quoted image]
Results. [quoted image][quoted image]
Good to know I am not wasting my time reclearing them.
Thanks for doing those tests and posting the pictures!
Those tests pretty much prove that this issue can be avoided by removing artwork around all posts. I wonder however what the results of the test would be if done over a clear coated artwork area and then left in place for a few weeks? Post areas over clear coated artwork seem to be the only areas where pooling / chipping is occurring.
Quoted from High_End_Pins:The same people that put a bunch of washers under plastics?
Even worse what happens when you install a bunch of plastic protectors.
I understand the dynamics of raising things like wireform ramps making the distance of the ball drop further but the minuscule amount these washers would raise anything would have zero effect on gameplay .
Whoever is coming up with these “fixes” are doing themselves and their customers more harm than good.
It’s like “Oh the ink is lifting around that 1/2 inch washer. I have the solution here’s a 3/4 incher on the house”
Two months later “We are sorry to hear that the ink has lifted around that 3/4 inch washer. Here is a 1 inch washer. “
Before you know it the entire playfield is going to be covered in wrinkles and big washers.
Great points! If the playfield issues are fixed then JJP shouldn't need to put washers under posts at all. Besides looking ugly all I can think of when I see JJP shipping games with washers is an admission to including playfields with a quality defect.
Quoted from High_End_Pins:All these band aids to overcome and mask a potentially bad product are stupid.
Make the playfields right!Someone clearly has the art ,ability and equipment .
Make it happen. Whoever’s job this is. Do it!
This is just a true summary of the many threads on the subject.
All the back and forth is worthless.
These are not normal outcomes or issues you would expect.
Wear from use?Yes I can expect that.
Dimples from use?Yes I can expect that.
Dulling overtime with use ?Yes I can expect that
Ink lifting and peeling off down to the bare wood around simply needed parts like post to build the game within months after said assembly let alone ever ?No this is not acceptable based on history alone.
I can teardown a woodrail from the 50’s that doesn’t have or show that.
It’s 70 years old!!
Stop it!!!
Fix it!!!
If this is your job please take it seriously and do it!Its clearly important,not normal and not optional. You will ultimately make your own life easier as well as others.
Playfield post of the year! Well said.
At this time I'm voting with my wallet. I've asked my distributor to delay my LE order, if this issue isn't fixed within a few months I'll just cancel my order and buy another Stern. Not dealing with this crap at these insane prices.
Quoted from pinballcorpse:Am I the only person on the sidelines reading these threads about
-ironing brand new playfields,
-disassembling the topside of a brand new playfield to add washers (and creating a sub-debate on the correct washers to add)
-adding clearcoat and glue *on a brand new game*
and wondering why in the world people keep subjecting themselves to this NIB purchasing madness?
I love pinball, but come on, this is ridiculous.
For existing owners I can understand wanting and needing to do those things to prevent further issues. As someone with an LE on order at the $9500 price point I don't want to deal with these issues at all, I'll cancel my order before doing the items above. Like you said it's ridiculous to have to do these items when spending this type of money on a pin. I don't care how much fun GNR is, there's no way in hell I'm spending nearly $10k on a pin that is having these types of quality issues. I was planning to sell an HUO Family Guy for GNR LE but if these issues continue screw that, I rather keep and play a nice game that won't fall apart.
On a related note I wouldn't worry about buying a NIB Stern at this time. Are their latest playfields the best ever made? No. Do they overall look nice and don't pool / chip at posts? Yes. That's the experience I had with a NIB TMNT Premium I just received. It was nice to simply open the game and play it without having to pull out irons, washers, etc. When opening a new pinball machine in 2021 the last thing customers should have to worry about are quality issues on one of the most foundational items in a pin.
If a pinball company cannot offer games with at least quality playfields then they shouldn't be making pinball machines at all in my opinion. The playfield and cabinet and two of the most foundational items in a pin and both should be a given to be made correctly. What's occurring with JJP would be the equivalent to an automaker making cars with faulty frames, and a company building homes with cracked foundations all while continuing business knowing the issues exist. It's bizarre, it's crazy, and it's been embarrassing for a long time now.
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