(Topic ID: 293976)

GNRCE Playfield issues!

By Skyemont

2 years ago


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  • 878 posts
  • 203 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by leonml
  • Topic is favorited by 36 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “GNRCE Playfield issues!”

    • No issues 34 votes
      30%
    • A few issues but I can deal with it 15 votes
      13%
    • I need a new playfield 63 votes
      56%

    (112 votes)

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    Topic index (key posts)

    6 key posts have been marked in this topic

    Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

    Post #5 HEP identifies the issue immediatly. Posted by High_End_Pins (2 years ago)

    Post #96 Myth about outlawed chemicals Posted by High_End_Pins (2 years ago)

    Post #173 Mirco clearcoat & post tests Posted by High_End_Pins (2 years ago)

    Post #726 HEP comment on the two easy to see direct issues. Posted by High_End_Pins (2 years ago)

    Post #807 Reminder of thread purpose. Posted by Skyemont (2 years ago)


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    #154 2 years ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    If you have to wait ten months or even ten weeks you are not using the right product for the application.
    For a playfield a product that is installable in 2 weeks is appropriate.
    If it is not then it’s the wrong product.
    Hardening takes place in a short window. Say 4-8 hours. Curing takes place in a longer period. It can be 2-4 months depending on many factors such as hardner,climate,application thickness and even humidity.
    Most manufacturers of these coating materials say wait six months before waxing to insure you don’t seal a surface before full cure but that is because they are factoring in worst case scenarios and potential unknowns to be in the safe side for warranty concerns.
    If a finish is no good that is instant. It might become evident in an hour,a week or six months.
    No amount of cure time past true hardening or waiting through that two week window will change that. If the finish is appropriate for its intended use it will perform properly as intended. If not it just won’t.
    I hate to keep going on and on here .I don’t really care about JJP playfields at all but I know about coatings and playfields in general and there is just so much misinformation when it comes to the subject when it comes to pinball that it can be tough to keep my knowledge on the subject to myself.

    I work in the commercial office furniture industry. UV-cured clear coats are a thing…cures instantly when exposed to UV light. I’ve seen the process done at the factory…it’s pretty amazing.

    #224 2 years ago
    Quoted from mbwalker:

    Interesting you bring up the UV inks, I just posted this in the JJP/Stern PF thread:
    This is interesting:
    Just for the heck of it, I looked up printers for large areas (i.e. a PF). Looks like 'UV ink' printers seem to be the trend to use nowadays. Apparently UV is used to instantly cure the ink, eliminating the solvent based ink problems of running/soaking in/etc., allowing for the vibrant, well defined colors. But UV ink is essentially an adhesive, unlike solvent based inks (that immediately caught my attention).
    So I googled a little more about UV ink adhesion problems. One web site even mentions putting down a clear undercoat to improve adhesion: https://www.rolanddga.com/blog/2016/06/06/19/18/improve-adhesion-with-a-clear-undercoat
    The UV lamp itself can be an issue, but I would think that could easily be resolved if that was the case. There's various UV inks too that can affect the outcome. Wood prep (i.e. flatness, contaminants) is an issue too.
    A quick blurb on UV printing: https://www.perfectcolours.com/blog/2015/08/03/what-is-uv-printing/
    I wonder if Mirco boxed themselves into a corner with a very expensive UV printer that can only handle proprietary UV inks, perhaps ones that aren't as well suited for wood? Just like your printer at home, probably none use a standardized print cartridge. And given the cost of a large UV printer - likely switching to an alternative ink other than the manufacture's products is a big 'no go'.
    Here's a quick SnipIt of a random large UV flatbed printer:
    [quoted image]

    Interesting stuff…I’ve only seen UV clear, I had no idea there were also UV inks.
    Makes me wonder, perhaps the issue starts with the provider of the printer? If the salesperson shows up at Mirco and says “this baby will print on ANYthing, with 100% adhesion, with zero problems!” and Mirco says “Oh wow, that sounds fantastic, we’ll take one!” the first domino topples right then and there.
    Salespeople will say anything to make a sale (I’m a salesperson).
    I’m not saying this is the root of the issues, but what if there is more than one head to the dragon? I also think it’s somewhat irrational to believe that Mirco has been resting on their laurels through all of this. My guess is there has been much testing, research and possibly adjustments made to the finishing process over the past couple of years in an effort to try to solve the problem. For people to say that Mirco is the villain and won’t do anything seems unreasonable to me. My guess is that a lot of people have been working on the problem, and just haven’t hit the right combination yet.
    Unfortunately a bad situation for all who are involved, with the end user bearing the brunt of the heartache.
    I truly hope that a solution comes to light soon!

    #243 2 years ago
    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    Dont you have any consumer laws in the us?
    Amazing.

    “Caveat Emptor”

    #248 2 years ago
    Quoted from NeilMcRae:

    I typically would agree with and I always try to see the positive as I think people do the right thing, but in this case someone is saying ignore this or do nothing and the BS from JJP about tightening posts on my issues and the lack of any real comment is just not acceptable.
    JJP said this issue was fixed
    Mirco said this issue was fixed.
    It's not even close.
    Neil.

    Lack of communication from JJP (via the dealer or directly) is bad form. It’s not like they’re dealing with F-150 levels of volume here. Put out a statement though your dealer network, even something as simple as “we are aware of a problem, we are working with all parties involved to correct the situation” and work with your dealer network to address each customers’ situation. Distribution is not the only reason to have a dealer network, it’s also to help manage and address customer concerns when an issue arises. Silence and information via podcasts is not the way to handle the issue at hand.

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