(Topic ID: 293976)

GNRCE Playfield issues!

By Skyemont

61 days ago


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  • Latest reply 45 days ago by Palmer
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    Topic poll

    “GNRCE Playfield issues!”

    • No issues 34 votes
      31%
    • A few issues but I can deal with it 14 votes
      13%
    • I need a new playfield 61 votes
      56%

    (109 votes)

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    32
    #251 60 days ago
    Quoted from seenev:

    George Gomez thinks raising anything on the playfield even the smallest bit is atrocious.
    May I humbly suggest sand blasting the art away from the posts?
    Atrocious.

    The same people that put a bunch of washers under plastics?
    Even worse what happens when you install a bunch of plastic protectors.
    I understand the dynamics of raising things like wireform ramps making the distance of the ball drop further but the minuscule amount these washers would raise anything would have zero effect on gameplay .
    Whoever is coming up with these “fixes” are doing themselves and their customers more harm than good.
    It’s like “Oh the ink is lifting around that 1/2 inch washer. I have the solution here’s a 3/4 incher on the house”
    Two months later “We are sorry to hear that the ink has lifted around that 3/4 inch washer. Here is a 1 inch washer. “
    Before you know it the entire playfield is going to be covered in wrinkles and big washers.

    27
    #252 60 days ago
    Quoted from Wheel_Jack:

    Thank you so much HEP. But if the playfield starts to chip in that small foot print won’t it just spread?
    Or should this small foot print stop it from chipping?

    It should stay within that footprint there’s no traffic there but I am just trying to help you guys mitigate the situation. It’s better to go smaller than bigger.
    The real issue is deeper than the footprint in my eyes and I am not here to solve others problems they have never done or offered anything to me and I don’t care about their success or failure but I do care about people that might leverage themselves financially to get something to bring them a bit of pleasure and are getting screwed.

    #253 60 days ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    What about these?[quoted image]
    This is effective. [quoted image]
    [quoted image]
    [quoted image]
    Once removed yes there are assembly marks it’s unavoidable on any playfield or finish for this style post but again. Smaller footprint.
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    I just wanted to say thanks for your expertise and testing.
    You learn every day if you want, let’s hope JJP and playfield manufacturers does.
    I know I do.

    Keep up the good work!

    #254 60 days ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    The same people that put a bunch of washers under plastics?
    Even worse what happens when you install a bunch of plastic protectors.
    I understand the dynamics of raising things like wireform ramps making the distance of the ball drop further but the minuscule amount these washers would raise anything would have zero effect on gameplay .
    Whoever is coming up with these “fixes” are doing themselves and their customers more harm than good.
    It’s like “Oh the ink is lifting around that 1/2 inch washer. I have the solution here’s a 3/4 incher on the house”
    Two months later “We are sorry to hear that the ink has lifted around that 3/4 inch washer. Here is a 1 inch washer. “
    Before you know it the entire playfield is going to be covered in wrinkles and big washers.

    Yeah. I was being sarcastic. I'm not a fan of the removed artwork around posts either. That feels like a compromise to me. It clearly wasn't the way the games were "designed" when you look at the first runs of games like JP, but they'll tell you a playfield protector goes against the way they designed the game.

    #255 60 days ago

    Thanks I am trying to figure out the best way to protect my game before I even unbox it. I have two option now smaller washers or those plastic washers under the posts. I will most likely go with your option.

    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    It should stay within that footprint there’s no traffic there but I am just trying to help you guys mitigate the situation. It’s better to go smaller than bigger.
    The real issue is deeper than the footprint in my eyes and I am not here to solve others problems they have never done or offered anything to me and I don’t care about their success or failure but I do care about people that might leverage themselves financially to get something to bring them a bit of pleasure and are getting screwed.

    #256 60 days ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    The same people that put a bunch of washers under plastics?
    Even worse what happens when you install a bunch of plastic protectors.
    I understand the dynamics of raising things like wireform ramps making the distance of the ball drop further but the minuscule amount these washers would raise anything would have zero effect on gameplay .
    Whoever is coming up with these “fixes” are doing themselves and their customers more harm than good.
    It’s like “Oh the ink is lifting around that 1/2 inch washer. I have the solution here’s a 3/4 incher on the house”
    Two months later “We are sorry to hear that the ink has lifted around that 3/4 inch washer. Here is a 1 inch washer. “
    Before you know it the entire playfield is going to be covered in wrinkles and big washers.

    Well said Chris. I totally agree. So glad you are sharing your knowledge in this thread.

    #257 60 days ago
    Quoted from seenev:

    but they'll tell you a playfield protector goes against the way they designed the game.

    Yesterday I called JJP about this and I specifically asked the guy in the tech repair department (didn’t get his name) about playfield protectors and he said they’d been putting them on games for the last few years and he saw no problem with them. I told what George Gomez said about them and he disagreed.

    #258 60 days ago

    I thought JJP made a big deal early on in GNR production that Mirco had fixed the playfield problems going forward and to prove the point, Mirco had installed a special "test point" to verify quality of individual playfields.

    I know the test point is there. Is it not being used?

    Was there any change to the Mirco process at all?

    The whole thing just sounds like it was BS - Mirco put in the test point to make everyone happy, but did f*ck all to fix the underlying problems.

    #259 60 days ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:The same people that put a bunch of washers under plastics?
    Even worse what happens when you install a bunch of plastic protectors.
    I understand the dynamics of raising things like wireform ramps making the distance of the ball drop further but the minuscule amount these washers would raise anything would have zero effect on gameplay .
    Whoever is coming up with these “fixes” are doing themselves and their customers more harm than good.
    It’s like “Oh the ink is lifting around that 1/2 inch washer. I have the solution here’s a 3/4 incher on the house”
    Two months later “We are sorry to hear that the ink has lifted around that 3/4 inch washer. Here is a 1 inch washer. “
    Before you know it the entire playfield is going to be covered in wrinkles and big washers.

    I don’t think you’re wrong and you know much more about this than I ever will but... i haven’t seen damage expand past larger washers whether they’ve been applied before or after damage. The only areas affected are those with no washers or smaller washers on them due to pooling and over torquing. I just think that if the smaller =better theory was correct we’d be seeing damage around larger washers rather than the opposite...

    #260 60 days ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    The same people that put a bunch of washers under plastics?
    Even worse what happens when you install a bunch of plastic protectors.
    I understand the dynamics of raising things like wireform ramps making the distance of the ball drop further but the minuscule amount these washers would raise anything would have zero effect on gameplay .
    Whoever is coming up with these “fixes” are doing themselves and their customers more harm than good.
    It’s like “Oh the ink is lifting around that 1/2 inch washer. I have the solution here’s a 3/4 incher on the house”
    Two months later “We are sorry to hear that the ink has lifted around that 3/4 inch washer. Here is a 1 inch washer. “
    Before you know it the entire playfield is going to be covered in wrinkles and big washers.

    Great points! If the playfield issues are fixed then JJP shouldn't need to put washers under posts at all. Besides looking ugly all I can think of when I see JJP shipping games with washers is an admission to including playfields with a quality defect.

    #261 60 days ago
    Quoted from nicoy3k:

    I don’t think you’re wrong and you know much more about this than I ever will but... i haven’t seen damage expand past larger washers whether they’ve been applied before or after damage. The only areas affected are those with no washers or smaller washers on them due to pooling and over torquing. I just think that if the smaller =better theory was correct we’d be seeing damage around larger washers rather than the opposite...

    You should do whatever you are comfortable with and follow your own instincts.
    I am not trying to talk you into it. I can assure you it is sound advice for a bad situation and that’s it.
    If you look at the first pictures posted by the original poster you will see wrinkling well outside a large washer.
    Had that same washer been used but with a smaller washer under that it would not have happened nor graduated beyond the sight of the larger one.
    If you keep putting bigger and bigger washers directly on the playfield it will most likely continue to make bigger and bigger damage.
    Get the pressure point as small as possible and cover it with something slightly larger to minimize the outcome.

    30
    #262 60 days ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    It’s like “Oh the ink is lifting around that 1/2 inch washer. I have the solution here’s a 3/4 incher on the house”
    Two months later “We are sorry to hear that the ink has lifted around that 3/4 inch washer. Here is a 1 inch washer. “
    Before you know it the entire playfield is going to be covered in wrinkles and big washers.

    HEP, I think you're onto something here. In about six months, JJP will recommend covering your 3+ inch damaged area with one of your old GNR CD's because you know, it matches the art.

    Before:
    damage.jpg

    After:
    GNRwasher.PNG

    #263 60 days ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    ....Whoever is coming up with these “fixes” are doing themselves and their customers more harm than good.
    It’s like “Oh the ink is lifting around that 1/2 inch washer. I have the solution here’s a 3/4 incher on the house”
    Two months later “We are sorry to hear that the ink has lifted around that 3/4 inch washer. Here is a 1 inch washer. “
    Before you know it the entire playfield is going to be covered in wrinkles and big washers.

    Summary:

    pasted_image (resized).png
    #264 60 days ago
    Quoted from AFM95:

    HEP, I think you're onto something here. In about six months, JJP will recommend covering your 3+ inch damaged area with one of your old GNR CD's because you know, it matches the art.
    Before:
    [quoted image]
    After:
    [quoted image]

    Appetite for destruction indeed!

    You thought you would be in the Paradise City and found out Anything Goes!

    #265 60 days ago

    If I move forward and buy this with the known issues, I’m pretty sure that makes me a Prostitute. And if JJP stays radio silent on this issue, they are basically saying I Don’t Care About You”

    #266 60 days ago

    I would like to hear HEPs thoughts on what spooky is doing right vs JJP.

    #267 60 days ago
    Quoted from gliebig:

    I would like to hear HEPs thoughts on what spooky is doing right vs JJP.

    (Not speaking for HEP) I'm pretty sure Charlie at Spooky was involved w/the printing industry. Whether that involves printing on wood or not, or UV inks - he probably has an inside track on experience and industry connections.

    Just wanted to toss that out in case you weren't aware...don't mean to step on HEP's comments.

    #268 60 days ago

    Yeah the Spooky playfields really have me scratching my head because, even though I remember a couple of hiccups during TNA (that’s what she said?), their playfields are sooo much better than every other I’ve had. My ACNC and R&M have like 4 dimples combined after hundreds of play each.

    #269 60 days ago
    Quoted from seenev:

    George Gomez thinks raising anything on the playfield even the smallest bit is atrocious.
    May I humbly suggest sand blasting the art away from the posts?
    Atrocious.

    There are milling bits that can go into a hole and do the upper side of the hole.

    #270 60 days ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    The same people that put a bunch of washers under plastics?
    Even worse what happens when you install a bunch of plastic protectors.
    I understand the dynamics of raising things like wireform ramps making the distance of the ball drop further but the minuscule amount these washers would raise anything would have zero effect on gameplay .
    Whoever is coming up with these “fixes” are doing themselves and their customers more harm than good.
    It’s like “Oh the ink is lifting around that 1/2 inch washer. I have the solution here’s a 3/4 incher on the house”
    Two months later “We are sorry to hear that the ink has lifted around that 3/4 inch washer. Here is a 1 inch washer. “
    Before you know it the entire playfield is going to be covered in wrinkles and big washers.

    excellent viewpoint maybe milldown the contact area and put a small nonpressure cover around the post.

    #271 60 days ago
    Quoted from Charlemagne1987:

    Yesterday I called JJP about this and I specifically asked the guy in the tech repair department (didn’t get his name) about playfield protectors and he said they’d been putting them on games for the last few years and he saw no problem with them. I told what George Gomez said about them and he disagreed.

    I´ve gone the way of the missanthrop over the last few years when dealing with any companies, constructors etc etc.
    That is, always get names and always record conversations.

    #272 60 days ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    I am definitely not here to save the playfield industry. Just a knowledgeable observer to issues that are popping up.
    My experience with all playfields from all manufacturers are that each one and I am referring to the actual playfield itself is individual and will have minor to major issues.
    Some can be corrected others will have flaws that can be improved but not fully overcome without going back to the drawing board.
    That stated. There are also manufacturers and certain eras that provide extra challenges or known inherent flaws.
    Take the Williams System 11 era for example.
    Clearcoating a non diamond plated version nine times out of ten is going to ruin the inserts.
    The reason is there is something in that era that has made the original bond of screen print to insert very fragile and the clearcoat application exposes that by pulling the clear from the insert and into itself as it cures acting almost like stripper instead of coating.
    My experience with Mirco playfields specifically is good enough that I will use them but I also shave them down and recoat them and put provisions in place as I build them.
    Neither of those things are ideal to me but they are things I can and easily do so it’s better than salvaging trashed playfields.
    Right now I am doing a BSD. I have shaved it down and recleared it. [quoted image]
    As I assemble it I do the opposite of what JJP is doing. I don’t dare make the parts footprints bigger I make them smaller.
    How?
    Smaller washers.
    We can use this area as an example. [quoted image]
    I will over torque both star post. One will have a small washer under it the other will not [quoted image]
    Tight. [quoted image]
    Results. [quoted image][quoted image]
    Big difference easy insurance. I will conduct the same experiment on a playfield direct from Mirco and see if it is any different to rule out my own coating.

    The problem is not where the wood is, try a section with art and watch it pool to shit

    #273 60 days ago
    Quoted from Ballypinball:

    The problem is not where the wood is, try a section with art and watch it pool to shit

    Stern seemed to figure this out. I don't know why Mirco and JJP have been so reluctant to simply follow Stern's lead and remove artwork from around all the post locations on their playfields. Stubbornness? I'd rather see wood and a black keyline around all the posts than washers of varying sizes and materials, and/or chipping and pooling around those posts and washers. Yeah, we know that the removal of art around posts and/or rails doesn't address the core problem of digitally printed playfield art not adhering well (or at all) to playfields, but it seems like Stern and JJP refuse to give up on digitally printed playfields, so it's probably the best band-aid solution we'll ever get.

    #274 60 days ago
    Quoted from Rum-Z:

    Stern seemed to figure this out. I don't know why Mirco and JJP have been so reluctant to simply follow Stern's lead and remove artwork from around all the post locations on their playfields. Stubbornness? I'd rather see wood and a black keyline around all the posts than washers of varying sizes and materials, and/or chipping and pooling around those posts and washers. Yeah, we know that the removal of art around posts and/or rails doesn't address the core problem of digitally printed playfield art not adhering well (or at all) to playfields, but it seems like Stern and JJP refuse to give up on digitally printed playfields, so it's probably the best band-aid solution we'll ever get.

    What process does American Pinball use. I have not seen any issues with their playfields. Do the exist? Any American Pinball owners have playfield issues?

    #275 60 days ago
    Quoted from Skyemont:

    What process does American Pinball use. I have not seen any issues with their playfields. Do the exist? Any American Pinball owners have playfield issues?

    Good question. Spooky's Bader made playfield in R&M is also excellent (I have one of those), and GCG seems to be doing something right in the pooling/chipping prevention department.

    #276 60 days ago

    Deleted lol

    #277 59 days ago
    Quoted from Charlemagne1987:

    Yesterday I called JJP about this and I specifically asked the guy in the tech repair department (didn’t get his name) about playfield protectors and he said they’d been putting them on games for the last few years and he saw no problem with them. I told what George Gomez said about them and he disagreed.

    PF protectors are different than what Gomez was talking about

    #278 59 days ago
    Quoted from Skyemont:

    What process does American Pinball use. I have not seen any issues with their playfields. Do the exist? Any American Pinball owners have playfield issues?

    I owned Houdini for a while, and the playfield was phenomenal.

    The only slight ‘issue’ I had was the entry to the subway (mode start for Jail and Magic Shop) which was basically a hole in the playfield. The inside ring of the hole was semi-cleared by residual spray, but because it wasn’t sanded or smooth, the clear flaked off in small chunks.

    I was concerned it would spread above the playfield, but nothing happened. From my brief experience, AP playfields were great.

    #279 59 days ago
    Quoted from Asael:

    That makes it all even worse. If there was testing, they should have found that there is a problem. There is chipping after just a few games on some machines. To ignore it and to lie about it is committing a knowledgeable fraud.

    Actually Mirco is pretty well known for doing exactly that when any of his playfields have problems. There is a thread dedicated to this on the forum.

    Quoted from Asael:

    That would be really interesting to see.
    Mirco demonstrated in the 2020 Expo stream how his playfields would hold up when you over-thighten a playfield post on his playfields. And after seeing this I was convinced that he has solved the problems, he said in this stream that every playfield that he delivered to pinball factories would hold up in this quality.

    Yes the GNR PF's are using this new Clearcoat but if the clear isn't really the problem then it doesn't matter how good it is.

    Quoted from cooked71:

    I thought JJP made a big deal early on in GNR production that Mirco had fixed the playfield problems going forward and to prove the point, Mirco had installed a special "test point" to verify quality of individual playfields.
    I know the test point is there. Is it not being used?
    Was there any change to the Mirco process at all?
    The whole thing just sounds like it was BS - Mirco put in the test point to make everyone happy, but did f*ck all to fix the underlying problems.

    Its being used but its on an area without art I believe. The effected areas all have printing underneath.

    Quoted from Chisox:

    Yeah the Spooky playfields really have me scratching my head because, even though I remember a couple of hiccups during TNA (that’s what she said?), their playfields are sooo much better than every other I’ve had. My ACNC and R&M have like 4 dimples combined after hundreds of play each.

    JJP used the same company to make the first run of WOZ playfields and they had major issues. Must have burned that bridge, which is too bad because they seem to have gotten it right now.

    #280 59 days ago
    Quoted from Skyemont:

    What process does American Pinball use. I have not seen any issues with their playfields. Do the exist? Any American Pinball owners have playfield issues?

    I bought an oktoberfest that was used for events and shows, checked yesterday and no issues. Dimples are there, but not close to what was on my starwars

    No pulling issues also on Monster Bash, more dimples them on Oktoberfest but frankenstein is a dimple maker so are the starwars targets by the ramps

    #281 59 days ago
    Quoted from Skyemont:

    What process does American Pinball use. I have not seen any issues with their playfields. Do the exist? Any American Pinball owners have playfield issues?

    I have a Houdini. I play it quite a bit and I've seen zero problems with the playfield (zero problems with the entire game). It's a well-built machine. Even more importantly, I feel that the folks at AP stand behind their games. Spooky does as well (I have an ACNC). I wouldn't hesitate to buy from either of these companies again. Maybe the problem for JJP is that they've gotten too big for their britches and they are ceasing to care about their customers. I can't speak to CGC because I don't have any of their games and I haven't bought a Stern game since the early 2000s.

    #282 59 days ago

    So does AP make their own playfields?

    #283 59 days ago

    Anyone else notice their side art is falling off?

    IMG_7914 (resized).jpeg
    #284 59 days ago
    Quoted from Charlemagne1987:

    Even more importantly, I feel that the folks at AP stand behind their games.

    Except the faulty power supplies that the customers had to pay to replace. Pinside has a short memory at times.

    #285 59 days ago

    I was told Spooky and American pinball use Bader playfields. No major playfield issues currently for either manufacturer.

    Quoted from Skyemont:

    What process does American Pinball use. I have not seen any issues with their playfields. Do the exist? Any American Pinball owners have playfield issues?

    #286 59 days ago

    Will the titan silicon washer help if they where installed before the first game is played? Does anyone know how much are needed (gnr) ?

    #287 59 days ago

    I had a houdini for a while. It got some dimpling over time but nothing serious. Overall much better quality pf than Stern or jjp.

    #288 59 days ago
    Quoted from Coz:

    I was told Spooky and American pinball use Bader playfields. No major playfield issues currently for either manufacturer.

    yes, and JJP treated Bader like garbage during WOZ, so that bridge is burned. Wonder if Bader would do Stern playfields or if they burned that bridge as well.

    #289 59 days ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    Appetite for destruction indeed!
    You thought you would be in the Paradise City and found out Anything Goes!

    I don’t think Anything Goes is in the game. Shame too as it’s an awesome jam.

    #290 59 days ago
    Quoted from sirlonzelot:

    Will the titan silicon washer help if they where installed before the first game is played? Does anyone know how much are needed (gnr) ?

    The washer protection JJP added to GNRs sling shot posts seems to be working great. My guess is they will add this protection to all posts on newer builds. Don’t quote me on that - it’s just me speculating. But slingshots are holding up, so why not?

    But they’re not just adding a washer. They are embedded to the playfield. If you just add a washer, it might help - who knows. I’m guessing you have to do the trick we’re doing in the Deadpool owners thread for the katana ramp and apply a small piece of Mylar and then the washer.

    #291 59 days ago

    We were lucky enough to secure a G&R CE with a serial number in the 90's range. We took delivery the last week of February and as of today have nearly 2,000 games played. It is one of our favorite games to play, and it probably helps that my wife and I are big G&R fans.

    I've followed this thread and the other G&R threads to learn about tweaks and issues. I removed my glass this morning and went over the playfield with a flash light. The ONLY blemish I could find regarding pooling, lifting or chipping was around this post to the left of the scoop. I already have the 3/4" clear washers mentioned above and I'm hoping that installing one will prevent further chipping as the arrows point out.

    I guess I should feel lucky that there is not more damage with so many hours on the game. Maybe it's possible that some of the pooling issues and worse seen by others won't creep up in my machine?

    My wife and I are fairly new to the hobby but we play every night and enjoy our games. Just like the hot rodded 48' Chevy in my profile pic that gets driven everywhere. We're both nearly 50 and while I love having nice shiny toys, I know that with use you will get some minor dings and bump ups here and there. I have friends with hot rods they never drive and guys who have guns which are "safe queens" and never get shot. These friends who never really utilize or enjoy their possessions puzzle me. That would be similar to me telling friends not to play my G&R because "I wanna keep total plays low for possible future re-sale value." For me unless I hate the game, if I buy a pin and love it I will probably keep it forever and put it in my will.

    So if there are documented issues with the manufacturing process as pointed out it seems the entire playfield could be compromised. However in MY case is it possible that what you see in the photo is normal wear and tear from 2,000 plays? Could it be similar to dings in your paint from driving your car normally?

    I'm hoping it's attributed to normal wear and tear because I would hate to think that over the next couple years every high impact post will start to look like this one. People have a right to be frustrated and upset for the amount of money we spend on these games. I totally get it. In my case though I will play the game until the legs fall off because the overall experience for me exceeds the worry of a couple clear disks on the playfield that you don't see with the light shows going full blast.

    I've been a lurker for months but just wanted to post my SN range and pics so the OP can cross reference his experiences with one more.

    Backstage post (resized).jpgGuns and Roses Audit (resized).jpg
    #292 59 days ago
    Quoted from ShrimpPimp:

    We were lucky enough to secure a G&R CE with a serial number in the 90's range. We took delivery the last week of February and as of today have nearly 2,000 games played. It is one of our favorite games to play, and it probably helps that my wife and I are big G&R fans.
    I've followed this thread and the other G&R threads to learn about tweaks and issues. I removed my glass this morning and went over the playfield with a flash light. The ONLY blemish I could find regarding pooling, lifting or chipping was around this post to the left of the scoop. I already have the 3/4" clear washers mentioned above and I'm hoping that installing one will prevent further chipping as the arrows point out.
    I guess I should feel lucky that there is not more damage with so many hours on the game. Maybe it's possible that some of the pooling issues and worse seen by others won't creep up in my machine?
    My wife and I are fairly new to the hobby but we play every night and enjoy our games. Just like the hot rodded 48' Chevy in my profile pic that gets driven everywhere. We're both nearly 50 and while I love having nice shiny toys, I know that with use you will get some minor dings and bump ups here and there. I have friends with hot rods they never drive and guys who have guns which are "safe queens" and never get shot. These friends who never really utilize or enjoy their possessions puzzle me. That would be similar to me telling friends not to play my G&R because "I wanna keep total plays low for possible future re-sale value." For me unless I hate the game, if I buy a pin and love it I will probably keep it forever and put it in my will.
    So if there are documented issues with the manufacturing process as pointed out it seems the entire playfield could be compromised. However in MY case is it possible that what you see in the photo is normal wear and tear from 2,000 plays? Could it be similar to dings in your paint from driving your car normally?
    I'm hoping it's attributed to normal wear and tear because I would hate to think that over the next couple years every high impact post will start to look like this one. People have a right to be frustrated and upset for the amount of money we spend on these games. I totally get it. In my case though I will play the game until the legs fall off because the overall experience for me exceeds the worry of a couple clear disks on the playfield that you don't see with the light shows going full blast.
    I've been a lurker for months but just wanted to post my SN range and pics so the OP can cross reference his experiences with one more.
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    I'm with you man, I think toys should be enjoyed! The pinball machine won't be pristine forever, but that is not normal wear and tear. That looks like a nice paint job on your hot rod. If it started flaking off after 10,000 miles would you consider that normal wear and tear? I think most of us have somewhat realistic expectations with our games, giant chunks of playfield chipping off is not one of them.

    #293 59 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    I'm with you man, I think toys should be enjoyed! The pinball machine won't be pristine forever, but that is not normal wear and tear. That looks like a nice paint job on your hot rod. If it started flaking off after 10,000 miles would you consider that normal wear and tear? I think most of us have somewhat realistic expectations with our games, giant chunks of playfield chipping off is not one of them.

    Oh for sure some of the photos I have seen are atrocious and are not acceptable on new production with low plays. When I was only able to find that one blemish on my playfield I was hoping mine was one of the ones done properly and maybe the single post on mine was over torqued or just took more of a beating. Maybe I'm expressing wishful thinking, but only time will tell.

    The paint job on my car wasn't cheap and I'd be crying if it started peeling. lol.

    #294 59 days ago

    that post near the pops causes damage because it becomes loose. There is no nut to secure it

    #295 59 days ago
    Quoted from romulusx:

    So does AP make their own playfields?

    Houdini was a mix of Mirco and Bader but I'm pretty sure both OKT and Hot Wheels are Bader only. FWIW, my Houdini is an early build with a Mirco that's had no issues at all thankfully.

    #296 59 days ago
    Quoted from nicoy3k:

    that post near the pops causes damage because it becomes loose. There is no nut to secure it

    Can you post another picture of that post from a different angle? Is that a huge chunk of paint missing just North of the post that you can't really see in the pic??

    #297 59 days ago
    Quoted from ShrimpPimp:

    We were lucky enough to secure a G&R CE with a serial number in the 90's range. We took delivery the last week of February and as of today have nearly 2,000 games played. It is one of our favorite games to play, and it probably helps that my wife and I are big G&R fans.
    I've followed this thread and the other G&R threads to learn about tweaks and issues. I removed my glass this morning and went over the playfield with a flash light. The ONLY blemish I could find regarding pooling, lifting or chipping was around this post to the left of the scoop. I already have the 3/4" clear washers mentioned above and I'm hoping that installing one will prevent further chipping as the arrows point out.
    I guess I should feel lucky that there is not more damage with so many hours on the game. Maybe it's possible that some of the pooling issues and worse seen by others won't creep up in my machine?
    My wife and I are fairly new to the hobby but we play every night and enjoy our games. Just like the hot rodded 48' Chevy in my profile pic that gets driven everywhere. We're both nearly 50 and while I love having nice shiny toys, I know that with use you will get some minor dings and bump ups here and there. I have friends with hot rods they never drive and guys who have guns which are "safe queens" and never get shot. These friends who never really utilize or enjoy their possessions puzzle me. That would be similar to me telling friends not to play my G&R because "I wanna keep total plays low for possible future re-sale value." For me unless I hate the game, if I buy a pin and love it I will probably keep it forever and put it in my will.
    So if there are documented issues with the manufacturing process as pointed out it seems the entire playfield could be compromised. However in MY case is it possible that what you see in the photo is normal wear and tear from 2,000 plays? Could it be similar to dings in your paint from driving your car normally?
    I'm hoping it's attributed to normal wear and tear because I would hate to think that over the next couple years every high impact post will start to look like this one. People have a right to be frustrated and upset for the amount of money we spend on these games. I totally get it. In my case though I will play the game until the legs fall off because the overall experience for me exceeds the worry of a couple clear disks on the playfield that you don't see with the light shows going full blast.
    I've been a lurker for months but just wanted to post my SN range and pics so the OP can cross reference his experiences with one more.
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    My advice is put away the flashlight and stop looking for trouble. Sounds like you did ok so no need to drive yourself nuts, enjoy the game that’s what the hobby is all about.

    If you keep conducting flashlight reviews eventually you’ll find SOMETHING so I’d count yourself lucky just have fun with it.

    15
    #298 59 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    My advice is put away the flashlight and stop looking for trouble. Sounds like you did ok so no need to drive yourself nuts, enjoy the game that’s what the hobby is all about.
    If you keep conducting flashlight reviews eventually you’ll find SOMETHING so I’d count yourself lucky just have fun with it.

    Stop trying to minimize a serious issue.

    -2
    #299 59 days ago
    Quoted from smalltownguy2:

    Stop trying to minimize a serious issue.

    He doesn’t seem to have a serious issue and he’s gonna drive himself crazy if he keeps trying to find one.

    Stop telling people what to do all the time it’s getting old.

    19
    #300 59 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    He doesn’t seem to have a serious issue and he’s gonna drive himself crazy if he keeps trying to find one.
    Stop telling people what to do all the time it’s getting old.

    You're not operating in a vacuum here. Telling him to "put away the flashlight" is an attempt to minimize more than just his concern, it's an attempt to tell everyone else who's reading this thread that they should do the same. It is ABSOLUTELY a serious issue and should be treated as such.

    There is not one reasonable person on this planet who would agree that it's acceptable that large chunks of their playfield art should be falling off their play fields in such a short time. It's a defect, and needs to be addressed.

    There are 865 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 18.

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