Nono... I mean what I posted above. Sorry, I edited my post above. Check it out. I basically have a shrine to my potc CE. Lol. Also, pinside truncated out my emoji adds.. so I'll just have to use the old BBS method. *Grin*

So, going forward if we buy a JJP, there is zero warranty on the playfield?

Open it up and it's a lemon, and it's a 'oh well, win some, lose some' scenario?

I don't care what titles come out in the future, I won't be buying with zero warranty.

That's the way their new warranty reads. It's basically like Stern's now. Nothing in writing, replacement of playfield and other "non-covered" defects by their grace alone.

The difference is, Stern generally takes care of their playfield pooling/warping/chipping issues and doesn't leave owners hanging.

It's a really radical, shocking juxtaposition of Stern and JJP in the quality/warranty departments. Hopefully JJP comes to their senses sooner rather than later.

^^^Yeah, this just isn’t cricket.
I’ve spent a boat load on mods already, Lior, Pinwoofer etc.... I guess these will be sat on a shelf.
I’m doing zero modifications to expose myself to invalidate any warranty claim with my distro. Not even a single aftermarket washer, why should I?
My warranty/ contract in UK is with distro/retailer NOT the manufacturer. Under consumer law UK and Sales of Goods act that’s where any claim could be raised should the worse happen.
Failing that Section 75 on credit card - two pronged approach.
JJP sadly are stiffing their business partners, not me. He’s a good guy, not his fault as he just sourced me the pin......but what else can one do with no other action, this unfortunately is what JJP are relying on.
They are insulating themselves best they can.

Agree, it appears that some playfields had better surface prep than others. There is no way the ink will adhere properly without the right surface. Also mentioned before over tourqe of posts will aggravate the problem.
@ HEP I love your work and amazing attention to detail. thank you for taking the time to provide your insight and experience with Mirco PF's.
If a JJP GnR owner approached you for your amazing playfield treatment, would it be effective for affected playfields ? As sanding top coat will never get to the wood surface under the art where the problem appears apparent ? Could your treatment hold it together ?

And you already said you will bend the knee to Jersey Jack even if they set your game on fire, sleep with your wife, and slap your children, so why continue trolling people in a play field issue thread?

Thread is about Playfield issues, which it appears you haven’t had, not about whether you like the game or not.

Whaaa??? I really enjoyed Stern’s little label that stated every pin is unique and hand built, blah blah blah. Folks having Stern pf issues got the same treatment. Stern Army EULA. Blech.

That’s all he’s done for awhile now. Kinda tweaked really.

Thanks for your story! Good do see a long timer post. "Yahoo boards" I assume was way of viewing the RGP newsgroup. Clay helped many get into this hobby, including myself. It's great to see many continue to help today just seems like those voices are drowned out lately.

You guys should think less about me and play your games more.

This, but they are now $20k toys

There appears to be some on here who couldn't think any less of you if they tried.

Jk. Couldn't resist.
I have appreciated your input/contributions fwiw
Team zaphx!

What about implied warranty? There are certain things a company cannot wiggle out of. Anyone lawyering up or contacting their state Consumer Affairs office?

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/05/the-word-on-warranty-protection/index.htm

That was pretty funny Left myself open to that one.

And you think the shit playfields weren't a large part of my deciding to sell? I might have given it more of a chance if it weren’t for the PFs falling apart.

I don't read through all the posts, so I need a little clarification here. Is or isn't JJP willing to buy your game back for what you paid for it? If so, what more can you ask from JJP? Why not take them up on that if you are no longer able to enjoy your game? Here is an ad for a machine in perfect condition... so far. Pending sale.

Screenshot_20210530-083357_Chrome (resized).jpg

The warranty does not cover the playfield already. So that is a moot point.

JJP needs to get HEP onboard as some sort of consultant and have him fly over to Micro and see if he can aid in the processes somehow. Seriously, HEP is the best in the business and clearly assessed what is happening from some photos...hire this man immediately JJP!!!

I enjoy you post immensely please keep them coming.

Well there will be no shortage of his posts I can guarantee.

I’m done defending JJP after this last round of fucked up playfields!
But seriously your collection looks like an arcade called Stern Pinball!

Never thought I’d see the day.

I believe in intellectual honesty.
When my side is wrong I will say so.
I do it with political issues and Pinside issues.I don’t see this coming from to many Stern fans!

I was seriously considering a Toy Story pin, but after the reoccurring playfield issues , I'm out!
Hopefully,this issue will be taken care of,and if it is,I'll look for a HUO Toy Story.

I remember watching a special on Tv many years ago about the dangers of escalators. If a child placed their foot too close to the side of the escalator,it would pull their foot into the mechanism, and destroy their foot.
Turns out it was cheaper to pay the lawsuits, than fix the problem!
So maybe it's cheaper to just fix the people who complain,and hope the rest just let it slide?

Just for the record,If you look at newer escalators, there's a brush where the tread and the side of the escalator meet, preventing a child's foot from being pulled into the machine.

This is where I'm at. I've never bought a JJP game yet because none of the themes have really interested me, but Toy Story was likely going to be a day one order for our family. Not now though. It's just way too big a risk.

I will never buy a NIB jersey jack again until they fix this issue. Really sad and embarrassed for JJP.

Again, Thank you so much for your valued feedback HEP.
Fair call.

I am still waiting for my JJP GnR and have been somewhat disillusioned by the almighty Mirco QC stamp ??
This was a goodwill token to say hey, this problem is resolved.

The reason I asked is we have a top gun playfield restorer here in Brisbane Australia and I don't want to waste his time polishing a turd, if you know what I mean.

So, I'm kinda confused and doing my best to be fair and reasonable.

Same scenario with the infamous Ford Pinto. It was cheaper for Ford to pay the lawsuits than to install bladders inside the gas tanks to keep them from bursting and catching fire on impact.

Not sure you realise this but you are coming across as JJP #1 crusader. If you want hired by Jack, submit your resume like everyone else, instead of fighting their corner every opportunity. It really is becoming painful to watch..... lol.

Cool this looks like a fix for the time being. Until JJP offers new playfields once they figure out what is causing these issues. Not holding my breath on that option tho but who knows maybe that is what they are planning.

Who is we? The Pin Derek Gang you assembled after you found your new persona. You must be an important person now. No wonder you are holding on so tight. Embarrassing beyond belief.

We is me and my wife. Asshole.

"Jersey Junk".... I agree with ZR1. This is unfortunately the best new name for this company.

Group hug anybody? I thought the focus here was about playfields.

I wish Jersey Jack Pinball would focus on playfields.

623D839E-033A-43B7-8B55-0085CFD6C12F.gif

The fact that you can identify these two issues from photos alone and JJP and Micro can’t see the issues at all while simultaneously claiming they are not defective and meet their standards is incredible. JJP and Micro both need to call you immediately...JJP and Micro either (a) clearly lack baseline competence, or (b) are liars attempting to defraud people. I’ll start a poll in another thread.

This is a shame, they need you and so do we.

When Zaphx unchained shows up, you know you've gone too far.

breaking_the_chains.gif

Meh. I think he's just a level-headed guy trying to share what's worked for him to get through this nonsense with JJP playfields while nothing is happening with actual remediation for the problem from JJP. Having been accused of the same in JJP and Stern threads myself on various issues, I get it. I don't believe he is condoning JJPs terrible warranty change or their denials that there is a widespread problem. It seems like he's just trying to help people get back to playing a great pin in a way that will inflict the least amount of additional damage while this gets worked out (and it WILL get worked out, IMO).

Agree on you choice of names here

About 500

It’s sucks but if you take a day to tackle it can be done fairly simply. It seems like you aren’t a fan of the petg washers but I put Mylar + petg on nearly every post in my game (also flattened any pooling with the iron method) and have seen zero new issues in 5 months and 600+ plays. In areas where the larger washer would not work I used a rubber washer under a metal washer of the same size.The petg washers put slighty more pressure in the center while still spreading the force over a larger area that I believe makes it nearly impossible to form new pooling. Your other option is to do what HEP suggested with the smaller washers, that’s a interesting and potentially more elegant solution but your sort of hoping that damage doesn’t extend past the post coverage. I believe the larger washer will do a better job of prevent any damage while the HEP method sort of encourages more contained damage. Either way you should use Mylar and carefully flatten pooling with the iron, Good luck

I think that the carbon fiber rings Cliffy sells to arrest damage, topped with the same washer as originally on the machine is best. Mylar rings topped with whatever washer was originally on would be second. IMO.

I think that HEP is right that putting a bigger washer on is asking for trouble and just moving the damage area outward for future headaches. He has a lot of experience in playfields and clearing them, so I trust what he says.

That’s probably true if you torque down a huge metal washer but the petg washers have just enough flex to put slightly more pressure toward the center while still protecting edges and dissipating the overall force. FYI the cliffy washers are great but I’ve had issues with them sliding around in areas near pops because their center hole is so large.

Cliff's carbon fiber rings were moving around? They have a pretty strong adhesive. Did you strip the wax off the playfield in the area first so they have a good surface to bond to?

Over a longer period of time, it will be clearer what works for the long term. For now all we have are theories and relatively short term observations. Hopefully this is the last release to have these widespread issues and JJP moves on to a new vendor solution...

Yes I placed them under the posts in the bumper area of Star Trek and they both shifted to one end of the post vs staying centered. The plastic posts are slightly larger than the washer hole so the vibration of the post shifted the washers. Area was cleaned thoroughly before I applied them. That said they work well around the metal posts in GnR to protect around the post since the diameter of the hole is the same as the metal posts.

Wow, that's crazy. Would have never guessed. I've never had them come off once stuck on the playfield. Granted, I haven't used a BUNCH, but still...

Shed a tear cause I’m fixing you
Still in a bit of denial
I log in and check this thread everyday now