(Topic ID: 287178)

GnR price increased by $1k?!?

By pinpin8990

3 years ago


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    10
    #111 3 years ago

    Not a cool move mid run and not one to agree with but it does make smart business sense and I see why they did it. This is a title they woefully miss read the market demand for and now face a Guess 7 month back log on. 7 months with only a shaky deposit on and likely a New game title sitting in que that will miss release targets. Can you think of a better way to virtually guarantee those preorder deposit orders? Those games are now worth a $1,000 more then they bought them for. No chance anyone will cancel now on a win in pinball. Assume this move slows that new order train down enough to get the next game on deck and make some back end money on the orders that will likely still flow just at a slower pace makes for smart business. Again, NOT agreeing with what they did just saying it makes sense.

    #224 3 years ago
    Quoted from delt31:

    After seeing this GnR price grab and their approach for newer games, POTC is staying. I don't think you'll see a game like that again unless they decide to issue a special run which that case will be a ton of money any way. Way too much of a headache to produce and for who? People in this hobby spend a ton of money of toppers and empty games. Why would they even bother?

    Ding, Ding, you hit a point. IF POTC hits the limited line this move also now sets the justification that it Will be 11500 for an LE. There is always a strategy.

    #415 3 years ago
    Quoted from EricHadley:

    Pretty soon prices will be so high they wont sell enough to cover the cost to design the game. There is a certain level of sales needed to recoup the development costs and it seems like with the already small number of sales per title that soon prices will drive so many way they just won’t sell enough to break even.

    Profit outweighs volume in product sales. They don't need to make 10,000 games to prove a point.

    #417 3 years ago
    Quoted from EricHadley:

    Thats doesnt make any sense at all.

    Last I checked employees and bills are paid with Revenue not unit counts.

    #542 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    I was kinda thinking the same joke!

    They've been doing media blasts pimping Eric and the game since release, and merchandise as well as giveaways.
    Now, crickets.
    To me, that says they want this to slip under the rug for non Pinside type customers, and well...that's some smelly bullshit, right there!!!

    Not sure I understand. How many marketing adds, commercials, etc for Any product have you seen advertise “Hey we just had a price increase!”? As it doesn’t effect any existing buyer why would they need to promote a price increase?

    #545 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    If they actually wanted sales

    As they have been working on day one sales for four months and have a pre-paid back log of 6 plus months I don’t Think “wanting sales is the issue. The train is going down the track Way faster then they expected and this increase will slow it down.

    #547 3 years ago

    Side note observation.... Hey Mr #Hogbog Eric, why does every awesome creation you make always come with a crazy market Chaos and hysteria attached! Lol

    #584 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    I appreciate yours as well.
    As a customer, understanding the motives of a massively infrastructured company is a nice option. Lends credibility to words.
    When Wonka was unveiled, I was there. Saw this young, well to do guy give an opening speech via his cell phone. Later I found out Daddy had gifted him Jack's company. Not exactly something I admire there. Jack made the company, obviously with help, then was saved by a bored billionaire. Then his son received it, akin to a broke ass teen getting a hand me down Chevy.
    Also, I doubt Brett Abess is sneaking onto Pinside to defend his decision or talk here out of intense interest in pinball or it's community.
    To the points of inflation that people are making, I know in the midst of this pandemic, and working around nearIy 100 cases in our facility this year, that MY wages did not increase 10%. No hazard pay here either.

    I did! I'm 44. I mentioned earlier how I'd need to play 12,000 games just to have this purchase make sense. Can't do that when I'm working OT to pay for these games.....so I won't!
    I have no friends that are that into pinball... sadly.
    [quoted image]

    Sorry I guess I’m not understanding your investigative poking of the Abess family as an investor? Bravo to them for making wise business and investment decisions. In America Anyone can do the same so while you can be envious why should we care how they spend their money? Technically they made a foolish business decision to save a hobby/company we all enjoy so I see that as a thanks. They (that invested family) don’t owe us anything just because they have money. Did they or JJP contact you to Share or refund the 60% profit margin your making on that JJPOTCLE you have sitting there? I totally understand your frustration especially compounded by (as you noted) an employee of USPS which must be a living hell as of late. The Company not the investor chose to make this change for an improved business plan and growth. Nobody will like it rich or otherwise but it’s what they needed to do.

    #678 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    I'd say it's a money grab if their bom had healthy margins prior to covid. Which...doesn't even make sense at this point, as they most likely pushed back launch for parts, and at that point price increases were already occurring.
    Just ruffles me a bit, that in a year where most people saw massive hardship, unemployment and certainly not raises, while others saw insane financial gains, that this price increase is thrust on the consumer, a consumer that hasn't had wage increases during this incident of inflation. When that balance only goes one direction....
    I already felt I was nuts at the $9500 level, and at $9500 even, I felt this offered me personally less than POTC. That's half the price of a car for me, easily. So I'm definitely priced out. Oh well.

    Why do you think this is so personal? They are a small company like many others. Yes I'm sure they had BOM pricing pre-Covid but that doesn't mean they pre-bought parts for 6000 games? They are a pinball Assembly company not a manufacturer. They are at the mercy of hundreds of part manufacturers around the world and the shipping rates that come with it. Your company USPS had a 10x positive influx in business but the rates still went up. I'm betting they are not sharing that added revenue with you via a raise?

    14
    #705 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    I'm not. Because I can live healthier and happier with $11500 or 12K in my pocket!
    But I can say it's personal in this manner. I gross 60K sans overtime. So take home pay excluding bills is what, $35-$37 cleared? I already can't reasonably buy one of these games every 1-2 years. A 10% increase doesn't help that one bit, especially when my wages haven't increased.
    Speaking of, if this was the "How the Post Office, my Management, and in some case my Union bones me" thread, I assuredly give them a good lashing! I'm fighting for more stringent covid prep in our facility, as we've had many cases over the year, 1 death, and 1 most likely death in a few days.
    Not sure why so many of you guys defend this very optional entertainment product that is produced by very, very wealthy people. Let's look at minimum wage compared to wealthy elites in the world.
    It was last raised to $7.25 in 2009...
    https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-us-minimum-wage-and-its-value-has-changed-over-time
    In 2009, the wealthiest person in the world was Bill Gates at 40 billion dollars.
    In 2021 it's Elon Musk as 188....billion dollars, with Bezos literally behind him at 184, and that's AFTER his wife received a third of his wealth.
    So yeah, WE are the fucked. I'm not worried about defending financial leaders and them surviving this crisis.
    Frankly, I'd be very curious what JJP pays line workers, and coders, etc.
    Also, seems the increase to $15 is unlikely currently.
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/02/06/joe-biden-minimum-wage-hike-unlikely-covid-19-relief-package/4419484001/

    Think you kind of proved my point with this story. I am sure we ALL wish we or our parents started a rocket company, operating system, book store, or made wise investments but we Didn't! We decide where we go and what we achieve and thats called America!! As hard as I work there are many Really awesome things I would like to have but they just don't fit our budget or means. Doesn't mean I hate Elon Musk for it nor am I expecting him to send me a free car just because I deserve it for working hard. Completely understood if you Hate this suggestion but consider taking that 10.5 pinball savings and take some night classes to pursue the carrier and pay scale you Want and Deserve! Pinball will be here for a Long time and after you earn your dream job you can buy them all and send us hand outs for all your success. Pinball is Not an investment, but YOU are. Invest in yourself and find Happiness.

    #725 3 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    I want to leave a legacy on Rec Games Pinball, and Pinside.

    You already are my friend. You already are.... And you ain't going Anywhere till the 50th anniversary and then the 70th!

    #750 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    Bitter in what way?
    A billionaire gifted his baby boy a toy company that another man built after decades of selling the things he adored. Jack earned his birth as a pin manufacturer. That feat amazes me. What amazes me less is it being unfortunate that a billionaire was necessary to save it.
    All of that is "fine". It's not fine, for me obviously as a customer and fan...whatever that means, when that salvaged company knowingly ups price after it's set, just months later, and does so with no prior notice, and does so without having the balls to even state it occurred or why via social media. That's purely hot garbage.
    Look man. Here's the way I see the world. There are those that have no power. Those that want power, and seek to be beholden and sycophants to those that hold it. And those that attain or acquire power, all the while they're fine that the majority of the populace suffer hardships of varying degrees daily.
    That's the way the world has, and will always work. The American Dream is designed to push people to strive, to be what they're not, to uplift past that, even though for every 1 Leonard, there are legitimately 100,000 that hope to be him, and never will. That's the American Dream, a delusion built to push us forward, give us hope where it often doesn't and won't exist. Thing is, I'm fine with that. I'm just not fine glorifying a wealthy banker as if he's a better or more worthwhile person than myself, or anyone on this board.

    Sorry not much to say as this seems like a different personal issue and topic. You say you tried a career path before and failed. Never give up. It is only delusional to assume you will fail without trying.

    #758 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    Maybe Butch is a person...I...like, even if from afar, and I don't appreciate how he was discarded like literal garbage. Butch was there before Leonard and Lawlor. If you're not aware of the in's and out's as to what happened and why, maybe you don't know the people you like all that well.
    Has Brett ever jetted over to SS from Miami?
    And that's fine Lloyd. I don't know you that well. I do know myself well, and I don't appreciate people that abuse power. Trust me, our new Postmaster is vile, and we have a no strike clause in our Union, from before I was born. He's definitely a vulgar puppet though, and has done nothing but hinder our production on a daily basis nationally, during a massive health crisis no less. I know DeJoy is a joyless scumbag. I'm okay saying that.
    Clearly the talent staff at JJP couldn't have striked when Butch was fired. I highly doubt there's a union there. Big business, in a general sense, doesn't want unions, never have, never will. Still, without taking stands for a brother or sister, we ALL get steamrolled. And we do so by people with massive power. Butch was a victim of people with power.
    Those people will not waste time talking with the little people, outside of a sales job/business arrangement. I assume I've had more private correspondence over the years with you than you and the Abess Family or me and them. There's reality. And then there's fantasy.
    If I'm gravely inaccurate, I'm glad! I'd prefer to be wrong here. But class and power systems do exist, and that's okay. Acting like they don't, is b.s.

    Sorry your stories get longer and more confusing with each post to be honest. As I understand and you posted, you Were buying a GnR happily until the price increase yet Now your story is all about why you would never buy from a company that (you assume) wrongfully fired Butch? Pick your march and stick with it. Just know your march about Butch is what You assume it to be. Nobody on this forum knows Why he was released and its Nobodies business other then his and theirs. Unless you know the Actual story you should consider a different crusade is my suggestion. Butch was an Amazing guy with incredible talent thats not in question. What is are the Actual facts for his dismissal which you/we do Not know nor should we Assume and guess. The investors nor Butch are holding you back, only You are.

    #760 3 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Wasn't interested in this title, but I feel like buying one now after reading all this stupid insane shit.

    Does seem like it tripped a few triggers thats for sure.

    #767 3 years ago
    Quoted from Onwallst:

    No operators are killing it. They do it because of passion. Everyone go play their favorite game!

    Say What??? All along I thought #LTG was Rich!! 50 years one quarter at a time and he's not a millionaire??? I was kissing his butt for nothing! lol LTG has the Biggest heart I have seen in 20 years of pinball so for that he IS the richest man there is.

    #773 3 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    That reminds me Dave. You need Chapstick.
    LTG : )

    Fine. But since your not rich, how much for your little dog!!! Prada would Love hanging out with our Piglet. She loves to lounge around and beg for scraps.

    IMG_6030 (resized).jpgIMG_6030 (resized).jpg
    #867 3 years ago
    Quoted from zaphX:

    I consider this disrespectful. The band gave up ALL assets to make this pin the best it could be, and Axl contributed too.

    Theres a reason forums don't have a camera feature. Everyone looks like a built rockstar commenter behind a keyboard. lol

    #874 3 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    LTG : )
    [quoted image]

    Lololol. You never looked like that even at 16!

    #973 3 years ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    Whoa. You paid day 1 and haven't seen your game? Looks like I'm going to be waiting until the end of summer. Crazy

    90% of orders were Day 1. In what order we will never know but Day 1 is just assumed for all outstanding orders for a good long time.

    #1063 3 years ago
    Quoted from Lamberger:

    He had 272 Canadian clients looking to buy at $9500. waiting till production caught up.

    Not sure I understand. They had 272 "Potential" clients Looking (window shopping) to buy. How did JJP eff them over? They didn't Loose any sales as they didn't have them sold?

    #1077 3 years ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    Batman and Robin (Adam West and Burt Ward) did. With one exception the other major actors were dead at the time which would have made custom call outs difficult. But Stern had the use of audio and video from every episode (with only a few scenes excepted).
    I understand what Slash did with GnR and it’s impressive. But BM66 still wins the “best use of licensed assets” for a pinball in the LCD era.

    Always loved that Adam West even did Custom customer call outs for the SLE BM games. Way to use all the assets. Sadly I think that game was his last contribution before passing. Love that game.

    #1088 3 years ago
    Quoted from BigT:

    IMO BM66, EHOH and GNR have show us what can happen when the license holder is all in and all assets are available.
    Edit: I forgot to in R&M...I haven’t had a chance to play it yet.

    Completely agree! Owning a license is important, negotiating all the assets makes it a winner.

    #1111 3 years ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    I do think that there is a threshold at which more and more people get priced out, or a point at which people decide the cost isn't worth it anymore. I don't know where that line is, but I do think there is a line.
    And I do believe there is a price-point where the really wealthy, cost-is-no-object, collectors won't be able to make up for the lost revenue from the more modestly budgeted / value-oriented collectors.

    Fully agree with this. Have many Non pinball friends and coworkers over and as usual they Always want one of everything they see Until I have to tell them the costs involved to get into this hobby. Thats when you see their head turn and start calculating just how much crazy money is parked in the game room lol.

    #1138 3 years ago
    Quoted from Lamberger:

    My distributor isn't happy so I'm standing behind him. He's swearing off JJP, looks like no future purchases from here on out.

    Sounds like His loss to be honest? More cost equals more commission for a distributor last I checked. Good on you to not buy something because someone else isn’t happy. Makes sense.

    #1151 3 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    If people won’t buy one on principle at 10,500, they ain’t gonna pay more for a used one.
    They just won’t buy one at all, ever.
    No big deal. Live moves on. You don’t NEED to have it.
    I worked out some time ago - no pinball machine/material possession is ever going to change my life for the better. It’s just “stuff”.
    So I have no FOMO for anything.
    And it’s awesome.
    When you figure out that marketers are constantly using FOMO as their main marketing tool these days, it’s very easy to step off the hype train.
    rd

    Off topic but Holly Wow man what a Huge and impressive collection. Wheres that "Bow" emoji. Can't help but think your electric meter must scream when you fire up that fun land. Impressive.

    #1167 3 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    Lol.
    Try rotordavenz.

    It’s not that bad ... when all 110 (ish) are running (that’s a few times a year) the power for the day is circa $80. That includes all the normal AC and HWC etc etc as well. Pinballs don’t draw that much when they’re running.
    Changing all the games to LEDs and also the whole house to LED lighting did make a big difference. Used to be over $100 a day. Plus the room is wayyy cooler. Makes a big difference.
    rd

    Appreciate the share. Along with the quality, content, and diversity it’s incredible to think how hard it was (and $$$) to amass such a collection. May be judging wrong but I have to imagine it’s 100 times harder to get titles in a country like NZ. In Chicago I can find most any title in days, by you it must be a constant hunt. Thanks again for sharing.

    #1172 3 years ago
    Quoted from Knxwledge:

    I didn't read much into this issue. That's totally cool then, I thought they were changing the price for the people who had preordered as well. The rest of my statement still stands.

    I think I would bet against your second statement also lol. Based on the annual "Stern raised the price 100$" I am pretty sure Any change to price at any time would have Many words of wisdom shared.

    Quoted from Knxwledge:

    If JJP had increased the price before pre-orders were open I bet nobody would say a word,

    #1235 3 years ago

    <blockquote cite="#6149939"
    JJP exists due to customer interest AND customer loyalty.

    And sometimes, a company just builds a Great game!

    #1238 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    Definitely not denying it has great merits..!
    Asset usage and availability is extraordinary. JP de Win did amazing as usual. Code seems vast, integrated with a great light show. Shots are...there. Toys and mechs largely absent.
    I'd place it above Hobbit for sure! At this point I still think I like their other games more. Definitely a step down from POTC. I'd handsdown buy an LE at....$7500-$8500!

    Wasn't arguing the merits of GnR. All have their own personal interest (its a hobby). Was just saying JJP is surviving on more then loyalty or interest in their company. If they (or anyone) build a great game I don't care if they don't want to be my BFF or share their feelings. I just want a good game.

    #1244 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    When I jumped back into this, I saw Jack/JJP as the every man's tale, an on his feet earner, that somehow was able to transform an industry. For me, that's the "idea" I bought into,

    Then Jack did his job. He's a Salesman and at the time Business owner. He sold you the confidence to Buy a game (or two) so he did a Great job. At the end of the day, Yes they are All really great people but they support a business. I am sure they would all like to be everyones best friend and share all that is going on and do all we wish but that would be a certain business death.... Without recapping history with stories of how we used to buy A title games for $1200 its just a reminder this is NOT a cheat hobby and in time may sadly become elusive to many. With that said, maybe thats a good thing in some ways. This all started with Many great route operators and as luck would have it some are still plugging along so maybe this is the door opening for many to go back and support those still pounding the streets with route games.

    -2
    #1287 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    That's awful. This is why unions need to exist.
    So much for that philanthropy idea some people have here.
    I was wondering what the pay rates were. Good find! And frankly, this is decently skilled labor.
    I don't expect every employee at Ferrari to be able to buy one, but man....these people surely have no chance to buy a game, if they so desired.

    So off on So many things with this post sorry. Yeah we need a union in there I want to pay 85,000 for a pinball machine! The application is for someone to put screws in holes rinse and repeat not Code or Design the machine. If your looking to work for a company with philanthropy Start your own company thats a mythical company.

    11
    #1361 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/25/business/costco-minimum-wage-workers/index.html
    "Costco's average wage for hourly employees is around $24 an hour. Costco employees have also received an extra $2 an hour in hazard pay during the pandemic since March. Jelinek said the company would end the hazard pay, but convert some of it to permanent pay raises for employees."
    Good on them! Always seemed like a decent place of employment, and most employees seem to have a good vibe also.

    Costco is a fortune 500 45 Billion dollar company, what the Hell does this have to do with a small 40 employee pinball toy company????? Seriously

    #1396 3 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    After a week of that work, you’d never want to see another pinball machine again.

    rd

    There’s the correct answer! Any job seems fun for a week. Would love to work at my favorite beef stand or pizza place but I know I would hate it in a few days. Putting 15 screws in a wood board and sliding it down is Not the same pleasure we assume as playing a game. On numerous visits to Stern I don’t recall seeing a Single line worker in the free game area. Bet it’s the Last place they want to hang out on break.

    #1404 3 years ago
    Quoted from thechakapakuni:

    I don’t know about that. There’s something relaxing about putting a pinball table together. Some people take joy & pride in their work no matter what it is.

    Completely agree. In fact I actually enjoy the service and restoration of a game more then playing at times. However, that is not the experience of a line worker. Install this wire loom like this, now do that again 2500 times for the next six months till we unveil the next game. Never mind, it will be the same process as long as you don't flip the board over. Not that much pinball pleasure...

    12
    #1410 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    Side note, whomever modded or got me moderated, please feel free to message me directly and let me know whatever issues you have with me. I prefer to hash things out and move forward.

    Wasn't me but could we move forward from this topic? please. I am proud to be an American, I work hard for what I have, and if I want more I will Earn it. Can we please be done and move onto pinball.

    #1456 3 years ago
    Quoted from Colehvac1:

    Thats what happened to me. Slow to repond, lots of emails sent back and forth, then they call and im like finally they are going to make it right, but no, i was told the Company no longer is sending out playfields for this issue. I had no problem paying for a JJP game, everyone tells me how great they are with customer service, but i think that was when jack was running things, i think things are different now, i think they should be honest about it and let the buyers know upfront. I would have made a different decision had i known.

    Are the issues you mention posted with pictures anywhere? I find all this unusual as I know of at least 6 early GnR owners that had issues and all were taken care of with minimal effort. Would be interesting to see what your issue submission looked like and who your distributor was.

    #1459 3 years ago
    Quoted from Colehvac1:

    So you know 6? What was their issues, and what was provided to them?

    Several early release games GnR many of which are all posted or documented on the GnR thread. All received playfields or equivalent solution. Only ask because while I am NOT saying you are not right it just contradicts the response and support I and others have seen on this game and have yet to see the company publish anything to the contrary.

    #1466 3 years ago
    Quoted from Colehvac1:

    I guess that was my mistake then, i should have been there posting my issues, instead im out doing in home repairs, supporting JJP products. So i fill out a game registration, fill out at online ticket, email pics as requested by barry engler, send in serial numbers from the back of the playfield, after i sent in pics. If it wasnt an issue from December when they got the first pictures why didnt they say Its not bad enough to warrant a warranty, why did they email me for additional pics and the stamped serial number from the back of the playfield, then barry engler tells me he has to have q meeting with upper management over my issue. Mod couple? Right? Do you do work for JJP? Im the customer, i paid for a game and the art and clear shouldnt flake within 100 plays. Here you go here is some pics, tell me this is acceptable?[quoted image][quoted image]

    To answer your question no, I do not work for JJP nor do I represent them in any way. Was simply trying to help. Who was your distributor as it does look like there are clear issues.

    #1475 3 years ago
    Quoted from Colehvac1:

    Im the original owner and registered the game, followed protocol, this should not happen at 100 plays, and now im at 200 and its gotten worse, although i think the washers will prevent it from getting worse, why was i offered washers in February but not in December, none of this makes any sense. Complete corporate bullshit now, customer is no longer a person to Jersey Jack Pinball now we are just another dollar.

    Not the solution you would want but it shows you sold your game already? Sorry you had a bad experience, really is a fun game granted that was likely dampened by your frustration.

    #1479 3 years ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    whose deleting the comments? JJP? Can they actually do that?

    On their private social media page. Yes.

    #1485 3 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    I'm sorry your game has those issues, at these insane prices there's no excuse for them. Your pictures show a clear defect with the playfield in multiple areas, that isn't normal.
    Some people have had success on here with a manufacture by creating a dedicated post on Pinside for their specific issue. If you go that route just be specific in regards to your issue, history of communication with JJP and distributor, and include pictures. Someone at JJP may take notice as they know hundreds of potential customers will see that post. Hope you get a new playfield soon!

    He sold the game.

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