(Topic ID: 287178)

GnR price increased by $1k?!?

By pinpin8990

3 years ago


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    #115 3 years ago

    If this is the new JJP LE pricing moving forward than expect a bump in their CE pricing as well.....there is almost zero chance I will ever buy another LE at $11K delivered....I'll be a HUO buyer in the future....this was all about profitability .... my guess is they'll honor past LE pricing, but future sales will drop off the cliff

    #218 3 years ago
    Quoted from delt31:

    This is the new jjp. I think you're thinking of the old Jersey Jack pinball out of NJ. That company I would expect toys and gadgets etc. This company has clearly changed their strategy. It started with Wonka, continued with GnR and I would be very surprised if it doesn't extend to TS.
    I still appreciate their games but loaded widebodies are dead

    Unfortunately your probably right.....the packed wide body game is really what differentiated JJP from the others...

    #220 3 years ago
    Quoted from westofrome:

    I think a lot of people anticipated that for Wonka, and in the end the toys/mechs are pretty underwhelming, although the game shoots well. I think post-Pirates, this might be the new normal for JJP.

    I love Wonka, but there really are no toys unless u want to count the Gobstopper ... Wonkavator is just a physical ball lock.....

    #249 3 years ago

    So basically the CE owners paid an extra $2K for rad cals, lock down bar emblem, skull shooter, powder coating, laser cut rails, coma lock, upgraded play field, and extra lighting....

    #266 3 years ago

    For me its hard to think what your game might sell for if it doesn't last in your collection. Historically most JJP pins drop in value (first year) after u open the box i.e. DI, Hobbit, Woz, Wonka. POTC was an anomaly (I owned two LE's that I bought used before the prices got stupid). I pulled the trigger on a GNR CE, but only after I convinced myself that it was unique enough that it had a chance to hold its value.

    #273 3 years ago
    Quoted from zaphX:

    4+ months into the run is early?

    Yep...

    #289 3 years ago
    Quoted from djsolzs:

    Has JJP made an official statement about this or anything that anyone has seen?

    JJP doesn't communicate with their customer base

    #338 3 years ago
    Quoted from player-one:

    This "legal' part isn't wholly accurate, but that is irrelevant to the point. JJP is not acting dishonorably to any degree. Unless something has changed, pending orders are being filled at the launch price and if you didn't order at the launch price, you have no right to expect to always be able to purchase the game at launch price. You can be angry about the price now being higher, but JJP is doing nothing wrong in raising the price. JJP is a business. And in this instance, they obviously feel it makes business sense to do it.

    I couldn't agree more...business is business....the new JJP is all about maximizing profits, which is totally fine in my book. What I'm really curious about is future pricing....If they raised the LE pricing to almost $11K delivered does this mean the CE's will be $15K delivered? At those prices I'll stop buying NIB and just be patient and find a nice HUO model locally. Historically almost all (except POTC) JJP games have dropped significantly in price as soon as u opened the box (WOZ, Hobbit, DI, Wonka).....GNR was a massive hit for JJP

    #375 3 years ago
    Quoted from delt31:

    but they're stuck with that purple inferior artwork ; )
    Speaking of CEs, if I was someone that wants one, the market is starting to flood with them as I expected (majority bought to flip). Just let these guys compete against themselves for a month or so and then step in.

    Its not even close to being inferior The CE package is in an entirely different league Not sure a few for sale on pinside defines "flooded"

    #460 3 years ago
    Quoted from woody76:

    Hobbit and WOZ have gone up in value? Unless you got them for a song used they have not gone up in value. Hobbits actually tanked in value.

    DI, Hobbit, WOZ, Wonka all dropped in value right after u opened the box....POTC was an anomaly .... zero chance I'll buy another NIB game from JJP at over $11K delivered for an LE

    #471 3 years ago
    Quoted from zaphX:

    So two ECLEs side by side, equivalent condition, one has 2.0 boards and one doesn't. Which is worth more?
    This isn't adding plastic mods, this is doing substantial labor and parts swap to make it better than it was new.

    As an owner of both WOZ RR and ECLE I would say the game with 2.0 boards is worth more....by maybe the cost of the upgrade....both my games had the 7.5 buffered boards and I never had an issue so didn't bother with the upgrade.

    #484 3 years ago
    Quoted from Biv:

    sooo, with this price increase....does this mean some GnR CE spots got freed up and I can grab one of em?

    CE's are 100% sold....they didnt increase pricing on the CE's although if they had a crystal ball I'm sure they would have !

    #491 3 years ago
    Quoted from LordHumungus:

    I didn't say they can't. I said it was horseshit. Kinda like how anyone could actually defend this move. Then can, but then being a dumbfuck comes to mind.

    How do you really feel about tit I'm all for smart business moves, but the timing of the increase was pretty odd. My guess is they are at full capacity for months, and really wanted to slow down new orders so they can plan for their next release. My guess is if they keep future LE's at $10.5 and increase CE's than JJP won't be around much longer. That market segment is pretty small.

    #495 3 years ago
    Quoted from LordHumungus:

    I love tit. Big, small and perky. All kinds and then some.

    Good to know....I'm in the same camp

    #500 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    So with all of the social media barrage JJP has done to promote this game, why no official social media messages regarding this price hike...?
    Do they just expect new customers, not in the know, to just be uninformed, and then....poof, profit?
    Seems a dodgy tactic to boost the marketing signal so intensely these past 5 months, then cut it entirely when it's completely necessary.

    Why would they start now

    #515 3 years ago
    Quoted from delt31:

    just the beginning. People need to hold off and let the market saturate. So many flippers just dying to list theirs

    My guess is demand for CE's will always be there...LE's will drop like most JJP games

    #680 3 years ago

    I stand by my original Gordon Gekko comment that for JJP "Greed is good" (although that could also mean gross profit) .... I am sure management wants to prove that they can turn a profit and get on a path of continued growth. In my mind if people pony up the $10.5K for the LE than thats just more profit where JJP can potentially produce future games. It sucks for people who were on the fence, but the good news is the market will be flooded with LE's so theres always a good chance to pick up a nice HUO game. What I'm really curious about is if this new pricing is indicative of future pricing? I've owned every JJP LE game in the past, but if this is their new MSRP on future games than I've hit the "this isn't worth it" point. For a bit I felt like a sucker for forking out almost $13K for a CE; however now it looks like a decent buy where if I don't love the game I can probably sell and not lose any money.....

    #685 3 years ago

    He was pretty clear.....

    #687 3 years ago
    Quoted from Mike_J:

    Jack and Co. and Gary and Co. want to regularly eat filet mignon and drive an S Class Mercedes. They’re not big on Steak-Umms and Toyota Corollas.

    Whats wrong with that?

    #689 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinstyle:

    I think when people say they are “priced out” it runs a little deeper than just NIB. Every time that number goes up it drags everything along with it. That rising number in some ways justifies the rising cost of the used market. So when people say “I can’t understand why people need to have a NIB to enjoy pinball”, you need to understand that those rising NIB prices are making it more difficult for some to afford even a used machine.

    On top of what u just said buying NIB is entirely over rated....I've bought dozens and after about 10 minutes the excitement has worn off. I could easily argue its better to buy a nice HUO game thats already been dialed in and u know everything works before buying.

    #692 3 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    You must've bought a GnR.
    But seriously...I disagree. Lately, I've gone exclusively NIB because I've seen everything there is to see so far (although they are fun!), and every time you get a new game delivery, it's like Christmas morning.

    I have a GNR CE being delivered Wed this week. To be clear I didn't say it wasn't nice, but that doesn't mean u get a better game....having a new game in your home whether its new or a nice used one is the same excitement for me.....

    #794 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinmister:

    What is everyone's true opinion on true valuation of GNR and others?
    For me GNR SE is a $5500 machine
    the CE is a $8400 machine
    The Big Lebowski is a $9000 machine
    Rick and Morty is a $6000 machine
    Rick and Morty BS is a $6800 machine
    MMR Royal is a $9000 machine
    Supreme turd is worth $3000
    The list goes on....
    I tend to set my own price points for games. Sometimes they align with reality and sometimes they do not. Are some of these games worth nearly what people are asking nowadays-hell no.

    Well the good news is you'll save yourself some money, because odds are you'll never own any of those games

    #864 3 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    It's not disrespectful. My wife says, "Heres your breakfast, ya fat fuck" to me all the time. And she's right. If I didn't want man boobs and look like I'm 5 months pregnant, perhaps I should cut back on the Oreos. If it's not a glandular problem, it's fair game.

    No, but its a stupid comment.....like yourself he's probably still bitter he blew his wad on an LZ LE

    #890 3 years ago
    Quoted from Chuckwebster:i passed on GNR and got LZLE. after hearing all the haters bash the game I was worried that i made a bad decision. I'm so glad i went with my gut. LZLE is gorgeous and is a blast. The fact i saved almost 20% over a GNR LE and get to play it now versus an unknown wait time is a huge bonus. I still may add a GNR down the road but for now i'm glad i went the other way.

    Really ? I thought LZLE's were over $9K.... at the time u ordered your LZ GNRLE's were $9500....not sure how u saved 20%

    #902 3 years ago
    Quoted from Chuckwebster:

    I based the number on what it costs today. I paid 9k (technically a little less) for LZLE including shipping. If i were to order a GNR it would be 10.5k plus $300 shipping. total difference in price is $1800 which is 20% of 9k

    yea well they were basically the same price if u ordered at the same time....I get LZ is a little cheaper....it shows for what u get although I like their music

    #925 3 years ago
    Quoted from Crumbalimb:

    I would love to see how the sale numbers are affected by the price increase. I would expect them to drop to nothing for a month or so, but will they keep selling at 10,500.00 two months from now. I feel like im being squeesed buy a cash grab or someone who is flipping a game to make a fast buck. The bottom line Is i will feel ripped off by JJP if I were to buy one now for 10500. It real sucks that I couldent buy one now even though the game is awesome due to the way it just rubs me wrong. If I buy one from a flipper I know its just someone takeing a chance to make a easy buck, but to feel that the manafacture is sticking it to me just makes me not want to buy anything from them :{

    My guess is they came to a grinding halt, and if the next title is priced at the same rate the sales won't be nearly as high as GNR.

    #943 3 years ago
    Quoted from Hayfarmer:

    Easy pass. Better stuff available

    Not sure theres better stuff out there, but maybe more value for your buck on the used market? That being said Australian pin prices are crazy. Its a wonder they sell any pins

    #978 3 years ago
    Quoted from zaphX:

    People really need to let this go. If it was going to happen, it would have.

    Dreams are free !

    #1023 3 years ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    Let me ask an obvious question. Sorry if it's been covered already.
    If I purchase a GNRLE directly from JJP @ 10.5k today, wouldn't they be motivated to fulfill my order before all the orders that are queued up with distributors? I have no clue what JJP margins are, but 1k is likely a very healthy boost to their existing margins.
    I also think it's unfortunate that the 1k deposit is non-refundable. From my perspective, it needs to have a time out. If I don't receive a game in 90 days, I am entitled to get my deposit back.

    My guess is they would never admit it, but theres a chance they would fulfill quicker I totally agree that deposits should be refundable if they don't deliver in a reasonable timeframe...I still think its BS that JJP refuses to provide estimated delivery dates.

    #1032 3 years ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    As much as I'd like a GNRLE, I just don't feel like "bending over" yet again. The business model sucks. Non-refundable deposits make 0 sense given their modest build capabilities. GNR is hot for the foreseeable future and it makes no sense if someone is "done" waiting, why they can't get their money back. With games changing hands between collectors, the chance of getting a game before yours is built likely.

    It took me 4 months to get my CE....was it worth the wait....well its a pretty incredible package so yea I guess it was. There is almost ZERO chance I would purchase and LE now not knowing when they "might" deliver....JJP is a manufacturing company so they should have a good idea when games should be delivered. Keeping customers in the dark makes no sense to me

    #1046 3 years ago
    Quoted from Dkjimbo:

    Then grow! Expand the production lines! They need to decide what they want to be and where they want to go. They have a MASSIVE hit right now that has expanded their business to new levels previously unseen. No business would look to stop and stifle this momentum and pivot away from it. They raised their own bar with GNR and huge congrats to that team for the successes.....now keep it up! And grow! Imagine their next slam dunk hit but in a world with double the production speed/capacity. even more revenue, more profit, more growth. The question is can they keep up this momentum? I got murdered for my “toy story is a bad license” thread and I still believe every word of what I said there. I am worried. I don’t think people really want a toy story pin. What sells? Rock bands and 80s nostalgia and comic books. JJP better have some strong licensing lined up. Stern knows this and continues to own the lions share. Their licensing and production speed keep them at the top. Untouchable really. JJP with increased production capacity and a solid run of licensing hits could give stern a run for their money....even at the high prices.

    They won't sell many if $10.5K is their new price point for LE's....GNR was a very unique product since they had all the assets, which is unheard of. My guess is we may never see another pin like it.

    #1050 3 years ago
    Quoted from Utesichiban:

    JJP and Stern are testing how high they can go. If people keep buying, you can take it to the bank this will be their new pricing structure going forward.
    The best thing that could happen is people stop buying and demand plummets. I think that may happen over time but probably not until Covid is waning and people are frequenting sporting events, movies, and traveling again.

    I tend to agree. Many of us haven't had the opportunity to spend $ on other things so home entertainment has sky rocketed over the last year. Once that subsides the pinball market will level out or drop. I've owned all the JJP LE or CE games, and there is ZERO chance I'll spend $11K on an LE. I bought the GNR CE because its such a unique product..

    #1062 3 years ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    You mean like Batman 66?

    Did all the real actors in Batman do custom call outs for the game?

    #1066 3 years ago
    Quoted from Lamberger:

    Spoke to my distributor and they are so pissed at JJP. Apparently Jack has no control now. They effed them over twice with the CE and now the LE. He had 272 Canadian clients looking to buy at $9500. waiting till production caught up. That's a staggering loss for a Distributor, they are seriously thinking about dropping JJP all together. Good news for Stern. This is wild!

    Why would he be pissed? If those were games he already had on order than JJP is honoring the original price. Sounds like he's making shit up

    #1071 3 years ago
    Quoted from Lamberger:

    I don't think so, he's not that kind of guy. No matter how you look at it, at $16,000 Cad now from the price increase... The distributors are gonna lose sales when they need them the most.

    sounds like he had a list of interested parties....very different than having actual sales....

    #1081 3 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    I disagree - I think the writing and performance of R&M takes the cake.
    BM66 has a great vibe because of the show and it retains that feel - but it's not necessarily great Pinball+Batman. It's just great Batman.
    GNR has great concert assets and of course the music - but the callouts and voice work is not mind blowing.. IMO

    I think the call outs are awesome....

    #1191 3 years ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    You can discuss whatever you want. That's part of the hobby and something that keeps things interesting. But this notion that JJP has somehow wronged anyone is ridiculous. They haven't hurt anyone one.
    As for this "average buyer," who exactly is that? Do you have hard and fast data on what best describes a buyer that's will to spend $7K... $8k... $10K... on a pinball machine? I don't.
    Prices are jacked up EVERYWHERE. Look at the used market. Pricing has radically changed just in the last 10 months. Maybe JJP figured out their market pricing structure then, and is changing to meet the market now!
    As far as I can tell, a company like Stern will announce a $1K topper. I laugh and think "Who would pay that???"... next thing you know, it's sold out.
    I get the fact that you are out on buying a $10K game. I actually applaud you for drawing the line. It's a responsible thing to do. But that doesn't mean JJP needs to adjust its pricing. You have not seen the last of "higher than you ever thought possible" prices. And, hopefully, someday prices may fall some to open the door to more buyers. Who knows?

    JJP hasn't wronged anyone. My guess is they simply raised the price to slow down future orders sense their production capacity is so low. At 50 games per week they are probably booked out 6 months, and my guess is they want to release their next title. My question is future title pricing.

    #1194 3 years ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    We'll have to wait and see. But if the past tells us anything: if we see a number that's crazy, there's a good chance that plenty of buyers will fall in line.
    I thought we'd hit a breaking point when Stern Pro's hit $5K and quality of parts and materials appeared to take a considerable hit. I've been wrong every step of the way. And now, the level of demand is through the roof. Some people think that COVID demand is driving the bus. And that might be a big part of it. But, also, there are a lot of GenX-ers that have cash and want to put a game or two in their basement. Those folks probably aren't hanging out on Pinside... in fact, I'd bet that a fraction of the pinball buyers in the world post actively on this site.

    I hope they do so I can purchase on the second hand market. My guess is family entertainment will drop off the cliff when this Covid mess is over. I think many will allocate funds to other items, trips, etc....time will tell

    #1199 3 years ago
    Quoted from Utesichiban:

    Agreed. I just think the market is going to level off and some of the inventories of these pins will increase as we emerge Covid. Admittedly, I may be wrong.

    My guess is your not wrong....when I see a semi restored FT selling for close to $8K+ its a sign to get out of the hobby

    #1282 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    That's awful. This is why unions need to exist.
    So much for that philanthropy idea some people have here.
    I was wondering what the pay rates were. Good find! And frankly, this is decently skilled labor.
    I don't expect every employee at Ferrari to be able to buy one, but man....these people surely have no chance to buy a game, if they so desired.

    Good lord....the last thing we need is more unions

    #1295 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    Don't you dare break the narrative that wealthy people making a smidge less shouldn't be shouldered by consumers as well as underpaid workers.
    Which by the way, minimum wage in NJ is $10 and change, in Illinois it's $8. I'm guessing line workers were paid a couple bucks more before the move.
    But.....savings, for the consumers, riiiiiiight???

    why do u say their underpaid? My guess is their paying market rate

    #1301 3 years ago

    sounds like JJP is paying market rate like everyone else

    #1314 3 years ago
    Quoted from Tranquilize:

    Agreed, let's get kids back in the workplace and pay women half. The good old days couldn't come back quicker!

    WTF are you talking about?

    #1315 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    What's your experience/feelings with unions?

    Extensive, and I will say that some trades make perfect sense (roads, infrastructure, etc)....and many others are over priced for what u get (building trades)....As an example u can build a home with market rate skilled labor and it costs you $100/ sq ft or u can hire a union shop and build the same house for $150 sq ft..... I know who I'd hire

    #1362 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/25/business/costco-minimum-wage-workers/index.html
    "Costco's average wage for hourly employees is around $24 an hour. Costco employees have also received an extra $2 an hour in hazard pay during the pandemic since March. Jelinek said the company would end the hazard pay, but convert some of it to permanent pay raises for employees."
    Good on them! Always seemed like a decent place of employment, and most employees seem to have a good vibe also.

    I don't understand your crusade....what does this have to do with a small pinball manufacturer?

    #1365 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    I read it today, and felt it was relevant to a discussion on a price increase. Not a crusade at all.
    Why does the idea of unskilled workers getting paid living wages threaten or offend so many on here?
    JJP increases a game's price over 10%, and it's doubtful their bottom line is taking a loss, while employees are seemingly not benefiting either.
    It doesn't have to be this way, but more on this board approve than disapprove. I'm guessing that's a matter regarding personal income, and those that are offended maybe make less than those that aren't.
    I think I've stated once or twice in a thread that my base salary is $60K. Not bad at all. Not amazing. I'd be curious where people lie in this discussion. God forbid such a topic be discussed.

    You don't want to accept the fact that laborers are paid market rate. If they were not than they probably wouldn't accept the job. Nobody is forcing these employees to work. The other concept you fail to realize is company owners take 100% of the risk. If they lose money laborers still get paid. If they make a profit than the laborers most likely continue to have a job.

    #1366 3 years ago
    Quoted from mr9865:

    I make 43k It took me from 2009-2017 to find a job that paid anything above $10 a hour, not for a lack of trying. Lots of not selected emails. So I can empathize with the fight for 15 group. Trust me, the people in the low paying jobs work hard too.

    Nobody is disputing that people who work for minimum wage are not hard workers.

    #1376 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    Aaaaaand they also make the bulk of the profit as well.

    As they should....so if they lose money should they ask the laborers to work for free? You can't have it both ways

    #1386 3 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    You're referring to contract work though. Most in the base labor force are permanent, low paid employees, sans premium benefits or wages, and are non union.

    Theres a reason they use non-union labor....they are way too expensive and they add ZERO value. Its one thing if you can pull from a trained work force (in theory union shops) and therefore pay a premium for the temp labor, lower overhead, and in theory increased efficiencies. In JJP's case these are not trained employees and using a union work force is a complete waste of $. My guess is if these employees are full-time they do offer them benefits.

    #1439 3 years ago
    Quoted from Colehvac1:

    i would love to meet him in person, i would like to thank him for selling me a game with playfield issues, and then making the decision that the company wont be sending out playfields any longer to replace a playfield with chipping missing artwork. I look forward to the day.

    If this is really true JJP won't be around very much longer

    #1444 3 years ago
    Quoted from Colehvac1:

    8 hours, and no one from JJP is calling me a liar.

    Its a little surprising they would take that stance since they probably get the supplier (Mirco) to eat most of the cost. Have you had issues with your GNR LE?

    #1447 3 years ago
    Quoted from Colehvac1:

    My playfield had cracking and its missing art on left and right slings posts, they sent me black washers to cover it, but it past the washers, i notified them in early December, i have a phone conversation with barry engler told me the company will no longer send playfields for this issue but they would send washers. I already used the washers, this issue started after 100 plays, im at 200 now. My response was, jjp should let buyers know that if they have chipping cracking missing art playfields they JJP is no longer sending replacement playfields. Im sure the buyers would like to know this before they drop 10k + on a game.

    Wow .... total BS on JJP's part .... so essentially their saying theres ZERO warranty on the play fields? Is this in writing somewhere?

    #1455 3 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    I was reminded recently from a JJP distributor that there is no warranty at all to anyone but the original purchaser. So if you buy a GNR from anyone other than a JJP distributor, you have no warranty.

    I'm aware of that policy; however this policy of not replacing play fields under any circumstance is a new one....

    #1465 3 years ago
    Quoted from Colehvac1:

    That’s right! It bothers me, i dont think its fair, why do i have to accept it.

    I wouldn't if I was you....

    #1473 3 years ago
    Quoted from Colehvac1:

    Im the original owner and registered the game, followed protocol, this should not happen at 100 plays, and now im at 200 and its gotten worse, although i think the washers will prevent it from getting worse, why was i offered washers in February but not in December, none of this makes any sense. Complete corporate bullshit now, customer is no longer a person to Jersey Jack Pinball now we are just another dollar.

    I'm surprised your distributor hasn't done anything...isnt this why they get paid?

    #1477 3 years ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    That won’t help him if his posts are deleted before anyone can see them.

    whose deleting the comments? JJP? Can they actually do that?

    #1480 3 years ago
    Quoted from Yelobird:

    On their private social media page. Yes.

    I didnt know that....hmmmm

    #1481 3 years ago

    Does anyone have a copy of JJP's warranty? I didn't receive one with my game

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