(Topic ID: 287178)

GnR price increased by $1k?!?

By pinpin8990

3 years ago


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    #56 3 years ago

    Does anyone know if this actually applies to games with deposits on them? If it does that’s not a smart move and surely will piss off your customers; I’d be surprised if jjp did that. If it’s for new sales going forward, that’s seems like a reasonable business decision if they feel demand is strong and they can’t make them fast enough.

    In the Elvira thread, some people were saying Stern was raising the price on the next run of Elvira games by $500, including for people who put down deposits.

    Edit: just saw posts that it’s only for new orders. I don’t blame jjp, they need to make money to fund future growth and make great games. Supply and demand.

    17
    #145 3 years ago

    I don’t see why there should be uproar about the price increase.

    Doesn’t affect existing deposits
    Supply and demand dictates price
    Their costs may have increased and they need to maintain a certain margin.
    They can’t build fast enough and need to slow to prevent a backlog too far in the future so they can move to the next game.
    Market is very strong - Accessories at inflated prices are selling out
    Jjp is a business
    It sucks for new entrants, but if you can afford 9500 for a game, can you really argue you can’t afford 10500. The SE is priced like a stern premium, but offers a lot more.
    If you don’t like the price, don’t buy it. If enough people do that, price will fall. Or, find one on the secondary market, but even these are going above retail so how can anyone blame jjp.

    We don’t have all the facts. Jjp knows more about their business and the market than we do.

    #149 3 years ago
    Quoted from Huggers:

    If you can afford 10500 can you really argue you can't afford 11500? How about 12500? Where does it end?
    The last Stern Premium I played had a dinosaur on it that ate the ball and threw it about the place. The one before that had a projector built into it. The standard here has a pair of drumsticks on it. I was pretty stretched financially to afford an (unlimited run) Standard. Now they're unavailable and a grand more expensive even of I could get one. Kinda shitty

    Read my post: “If you don’t like the price, don’t buy it. If enough people do that, price will fall.” Where does it end? Ask delt31, he claims he has two buyers for his potc close to $20k.

    #167 3 years ago
    Quoted from Huggers:

    I read it dude. Just a slightly poor take on what is likely some level of price gouging. It's all good, plenty of pins out there at a price I feel more comfortable with.

    Balancing supply and demand is not price gouging. Price gouging is when demand sharply exceeds supply, particularly on essential items in an emergency situation, yet you keep raising prices to take advantage. Think of paper products and cleaning supplies last spring. Like you said, there are plenty of other pins out there at a price your are good with. If enough people feel that way, the price won’t hold.

    #754 3 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    All the supply and demand posts...
    This is not an elastic price market. We don’t see these manufactured pin hard goods prices flexing week to week or month to month.
    When was the last time you saw a pin manufacturer lowering msrp mid run? There is discounting in the channel... but not msrp changes.
    And your really think gnr prices will come down once demand subsides? We all know it won’t... so please stop it with these simplistic s&d arguments like none of us have ever heard of it before.
    It it was just huge demand, most companies take that opportunity to convert that demand into sales by increasing production... or providing substitutes. Simply flexing the price is a known detriment to hurting that demand. Obviously companies don’t want to kill demand, but convert it to sales.
    This isn’t a fixed number of units where simple demand drives competition for each buy. Demand is high due to the product... not necessarily due to being under priced. Missing your estimates on market size doesn’t necessarily mean you were under priced.
    Using prices to neuter demand does just that... hinder demand (and your sales). Sure you get some extra margin, but volume is the blood flow of a MaNUfACTURER- not margin. Volume drives revenue... volume drives economies of scale... volume brings cash flow and sustainability.
    JJP can’t be looking to do anything that would stand to hurt their consistent production output. Trying to “limit demand” is just foolish.
    If it truly is a “rising cost” issue... that blows because it means its never coming back.
    If it is opportunistic to capitalize on the hot product - i think it really is short sighted.

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    All the supply and demand posts...
    This is not an elastic price market. We don’t see these manufactured pin hard goods prices flexing week to week or month to month.
    When was the last time you saw a pin manufacturer lowering msrp mid run? There is discounting in the channel... but not msrp changes.
    And your really think gnr prices will come down once demand subsides? We all know it won’t... so please stop it with these simplistic s&d arguments like none of us have ever heard of it before.
    It it was just huge demand, most companies take that opportunity to convert that demand into sales by increasing production... or providing substitutes. Simply flexing the price is a known detriment to hurting that demand. Obviously companies don’t want to kill demand, but convert it to sales.
    This isn’t a fixed number of units where simple demand drives competition for each buy. Demand is high due to the product... not necessarily due to being under priced. Missing your estimates on market size doesn’t necessarily mean you were under priced.
    Using prices to neuter demand does just that... hinder demand (and your sales). Sure you get some extra margin, but volume is the blood flow of a MaNUfACTURER- not margin. Volume drives revenue... volume drives economies of scale... volume brings cash flow and sustainability.
    JJP can’t be looking to do anything that would stand to hurt their consistent production output. Trying to “limit demand” is just foolish.
    If it truly is a “rising cost” issue... that blows because it means its never coming back.
    If it is opportunistic to capitalize on the hot product - i think it really is short sighted.

    What if jjp can’t increase production because they can’t get certain parts or COVID is hindering labor and the ability to ramp up, or something else we don’t know about. They can’t keep taking orders knowing they might not be able to meet demand so they raise prices to slow it. Seems to have been effective judging by some of the responses in this thread.

    I disagree that volume drives revenue. Quality drives revenue. Look at Ferrari or McLaren, they don’t need volume to be successful companies. Jjp is never going to produce like stern, and they probably shouldn’t.

    #778 3 years ago
    Quoted from Tranquilize:

    Sad part in the steep increase in pricing is that a lot of middle class people that would normally get into this hobby won't be able to. I know it's always been a semi-rich guy's hobby, but even used prices are getting crazy. It's truly becoming a hobby for the wealthy and the grandfathered, like real estate in dense cities like New York.
    I make good money, but I wouldn't have joined the party at these prices. Pinball is fun, but it's not THAT fun.

    It’s certainly harder to get into dmd era games compared to a few years ago, but stern pros are still around the same price they were several years ago, at least in the secondary market. Star Trek, acdc, Munsters, Metallica, Deadpool, Spider-Man, avengers, xmen, etc can all be had for around 4500-$5k. That’s not much increase in many years. Other games like wpt, rbion, sopranos, nascar can easily be had for under $4k. There are also other great 90s games under $4k, some under $3k, like road show, fish tales, jm, shadow, bsd, etc. granted some of these games have doubled in recent years, but you dont need to spend $10k to enter the hobby. Clearly it’s become much more expensive to build up a collection, but you can easily have 2-3 nice games for around $10k if you try. Pinball never has been an inexpensive hobby.

    The high end games are where the price increases are happening the most and that mainly seems because of lack of supply and people thinking they can buy these games and flip them. I’m stunned at how many potc games are coming on the market at $17-20+k, crazy to me, and I dont understand the motivation a buyer has at those prices. Some people buy the CE from jjp with the sole intention to flip it and so far that strategy has worked well. But for the buyers paying what I think are ridiculous prices, I don’t entirely get it. Do they think prices will go even higher...greater fool theory? Or do they truly think a game like potc is so good, they will pay any price?

    #787 3 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    The company that has struggled to maintain enough sales demand to keep their production line running full strength finally has that demand... and you think they should nerf it?
    After they just relocated to improve production?

    Quality can drive demand... but revenue comes from sales not interest. And this is a manufacturing business... not a craftsman custom shop. Ferrari can’t survive at their volume if they only charged 50% over the actual mass produced cars.
    Manufacturing is all about volume. Volume opens every door.

    Nerf it? No. Rationalize it, yes. We don't know what is causing production isssues but clearly they cant seem to run more than one line at a time, having to stop the LE run to make CEs. I don't believe any other game is on the line, but don't really know.

    The move of the factory was intended to create synergies, and I'm assuming expand production, but covid hit and its effects are likely hindering them.

    You raise price because you have strong demand and/or you have supply issues. I am just speculating, but I suspect they have both.

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