Ill sell you mine when I beat it!

but they're stuck with that purple inferior artwork ; )

Speaking of CEs, if I was someone that wants one, the market is starting to flood with them as I expected (majority bought to flip). Just let these guys compete against themselves for a month or so and then step in.

You should see it in person though!

Anyone think that pre orders with deposits are shaky and this will ensure those will not cancel? I get it’s ‘no refund’ maybe? but wondering

Diamond hands baby!

This is a good perspective and your posts in the thread have been great, but the conceit of comparing historic prices with current prices for collectibles is slightly disingenuous. The price (and value) of consumer products changes, especially for items in limited supply and out of production.

For anyone who has ever bought or sold classic cars, we all have a story about something we let go for a ridiculously low price ten years ago that could put our kids through college today. "That [YEAR/MAKE/MODEL] sold for WHAT?!?!? I bought my MINT [YEAR/MAKE/MODEL] for $$$<<<" is a pretty common refrain in that hobby.

Plus, even for something bought-and-paid for like a pinball machine, there's a carrying cost. For you and me here in SoCal, the main carrying cost might be space. I know I can't keep all the great vehicles I've ever owned, nor can I do this with pinball machines - if I want something new, I need to make space. With every transaction, my cost-basis resets. Hopefully, I cash out with a profit and reinvest that money into something else at a higher price...that (God willing) also appreciates.

I think the more intellectually-honest comparison is to look at the top-tier "classic" game prices today vs. NIB prices today. As long as Stern LEs and JJP LEs are in spitting distance of nice Medieval Madness, Monster Bash, etc. I think you can justify the costs. $10,500 for Guns N' Roses (LE), though...??? That does feel like a bit much. For me.

EDIT: Looks like you have 23 games in your collection. Disregard my last point, and...mazel tof to you, my friend!

So now pinball collectors/hobbyists not only need to worry about FOMO (fear of missing out) there will also be the possibility of the dreaded FOSPI (fear of substantial price increase).

At least JJP didn’t cancel all orders and raise prices like Stern did. Bastards!

"Buy TODAY to lock in our special, introductory rate! Only available for a limited time!"

Oh, believe me - I don’t expect modern goods/collectibles to be priced at what I paid. I’m just saying I can only base my perception of prices based on my experience....and I think a lot of us “old timers” come at it from that perspective, even though it’s not entirely relevant to what new companies have to charge for their product.

they obviously have been reading about the anticipation here from pinside forum and said dig deeper.thats how they keep the man down.haha

Now would be a good time to cash out on that great Whitewater investment and sell to someone local!

Eyebrow.gif

When did Stern do that?? Asking genuinely...

Stocks went up and down during a global pandemic, pinball prices only went up. I kept waiting to see a Whitewater dip below $4K in working order. So guess it safe to say unless a nuke drops, buy now and enjoy the last days of pins being below $10k. 5 years from now “remember when pins used to be below $10k”

With Elvira

Elvira and BM66

I was actually looking at ramp sets the other day...thinking of doing a little restoration & throwing a little more money into it.

Doubling down on pinball FOMO marketing. You'd better buy without seeing or playing it, otherwise you'll miss out on the best version of the game! And if you miss out on that, you'd better not wait to buy another version or you'll end up paying $1k more a few months later!

This hobby is full of clowns.

Man this is the only pin I have purchased that has appreciated before I even had in my hands......If I didn't have one ordered I would be annoyed with JJP raising the price in the middle of production .

This might be my last nib, Tough selling the wife on a 11k pin shipped.

Who knows, you might get lucky and they'll raise the price again before yours ships!

absolutely love my pirates and paid up for it. I figured I'd be a buyer of Guns N Roses next. I'll be taking a pass, Alien is looking like the better buy now.

JJ Pinball took out a PPP loan in the amount of $768,500. This was for 2.5 times of monthly payroll, which would put monthly payroll at $307,400 (keep in mind this could have covered benefits also but lets assume it doesn't). That will put annual payroll expenses at $3,688,800 (307,400 X 12). Assuming that most manufactures have about 35% in payroll expenses, relative to of their top line revenue. I don't assume JJP is very automated so lets go with that number. This puts top line revenue in. or around 10,000,000 (3.68mm / 35%). Let's assume average cost on their games would be $6,500. If you divide $6,500 by $10,000,000 you'll see that they probably make around 1600 machines a year. This should be in the ball park.

At this rate it’ll be safe to just say, “Remember pins?”

Its not even close to being inferior The CE package is in an entirely different league Not sure a few for sale on pinside defines "flooded"

Until we start saying no to these ridiculous pinball prices by all companies, they are going to continue to rise. $1,000.00 is a huge rise or gouge. FOMO is causing pinball companies to think they have us where they want us. As a consumer we pay for all their reckless and irresponsible corporate spending habits.

I do hope some day in the future, JJP will challenge Stern, but that seems nearly impossible at their continued rising very high retail price points. Even though they do put a little more into their machines. But they certainly don’t put $3,000 to $5,000.00 more over what Stern charges into their BOM, not even remotely close. And now add to those $3k to $5k prices an additional $1,000.00! It will only end when we say we’ve had enough and won’t pay the higher prices. Until then, the skies the limit for all pinball prices to rise.

Sterns absolutely ridiculously high priced TMNT and Elvira toppers at $1k each for $50 worth of plastic is over the top (no pun intended , lol).

When the extravagant buyers get resale losses for over the top purchases and it actually sinks in is when this ‘sports card’ hobby will hit reality. Until then I’ll enjoy watching my B/W pins rise in value.

Definitely not Jack saying this. Abess Family is in charge of this ship now. Jack is a partial owner and Founder.

hey, i resemble that comment.

My distributor confirmed today he's honoring the original quoted price of $10.8K for GNR LE delivered to my door. This hobby is getting damn expensive, I remember buying my first game Addams Family for $2200 back in 2007. This will be my last new pin and will only buy HUO used games from now on. POTC LE was a lucky NIB purchase, everything else just drops thousands in value.

It does?

Stern NIB games seem to drop $500-1000 MAX over the last few years.

Same thing with JJP games. Am I missing something?

If NIB games really were dropping "thousands" in value, I'd be buying them. And I don't see shit as far as that kind of available inventory!

Ask everyone who bought the Munsters LE and sold for a loss. You get a bad title it will drop like a rock. Hobbit? Dropped like a rock.

Well, not all of them, but some I would definitely take a bath on if I sold them. The sales tax + shipping on new pins is obviously sunk money. Long term, it all seems to balance out...I've made money on some and lost on others. No way I'm paying more than $12.5K for a new pin that sits and collects dust 99% of the time. Crazy how the price of pins skyrocketed during the middle of a global pandemic, but that's good old supply and demand, I suppose.

DI dropped a couple K on average I believe...SE at least.

Where are the cheap munsters? Or Hobbits? Don't see 'em.

You guys just make this shit up.

You are cherry picking a couple titles, but for the vast majority of games, depreciation is low low low. Which is one of the reasons people keep buying them.

15 years ago you lost 25 percent value when you opened the box, on ANY title. Totally different world than now.

oh Levi..... Munsters and Stranger Thing prices are in the toilet. I know you love stern but cmon now son.

7200 for a LE is great right?

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/100587

Check the marketplace.

Cheap Hobbits are everywhere. That game SUCKS. Nothing fun to shoot. I've seen them sit at $7k with no buyers.

And $2200 then would be around $2800 now.. and we all know that AF is pulling more than twice that. Its really quite simple.. we as the hobbyists and consumers are setting the prices. Look at yourself in the mirror.. if you are in the hobby and complain about prices but keep handing over thousands of dollars even as the prices go up, then deal with it. Hurricane $3500? What? Whitewater over $6k. $4-5k for an older Bally? Its freaking insane. Somehow 500 people justified $12500+ for GnR, then others complained about not getting theirs. The price goes up $1k and NOW we start to complain about pinball prices? That ship sailed years ago...

This has nothing to do with your obsession for Stern, wasn't even thinking about fanboyisms. You just can't help yourself can you!

I'll grant you I'm not hip to the LE market, so instead of doing the Pinside thing where I just argue pointlessly for 5 posts I'll say you are right.

I'm thinking Pros. Show me a Stern pro from the last 10 years that isn't WWE for under $4000 and I'll buy it. The guy made a point that "you lose thousands on NIB games!!!!" If he's only talking about LEs who gives a shit? Those are few and far between and it's a TINY segment of the market. If you buy an LE expect to lose money.

Honestly at this point I don't even know what I'm arguing about. I'm sure It'll come to me!

I guess my Dealer was correct, i had my grubby hands on a GNR and played it, it was stunning to behold, but didn’t pull me in and make me laugh like my boy DEADPOOL!!! Just ordered a Premium to go with my Pro thats how much DEADPOOL Rules!!!! I need killer everything in a pin!!!! Mary Shelley Frankenstein/Deadpool/and if someone would sell me a Ghostbusters Premium!!!??? I will be happier!!! I like a pin that makes me laugh/get pissed off/and dance!!!! Nothing funny about GNR/Played slow and soft. Balls should have been flying everywhere!!! They weren’t. But if GNR gets your blood moving? Then what’s another $1,000 ? We may be a few years away from needing an insurance policy on pinball machines the way prices keep climbing and moving companies keep dropping them!! RIP Funhouse, my heart goes out to that family that lost Rudy the other day!! My sincere condolences!!

Why are posters bringing up Jacks name like this was his decision? Last I heard Jack essentially was bought out by the Billionaire Dad and Son team who now run the show. Abbots I believe? Which brings up something. Does Jersey Jack really need to make money? This is a stupid question and I expect to get shit on but seriously when I looked up these guys they weren't just like 1 Billion. It was several. Stupid money. So here is the real question. If you were a mega billionaire, and you loved pinball (which supposedly these two do) would it really matter to you to make a profit on a hobby business? Yes I understand that Billionaires don't become that rich by running companies in the red but would it not be fun to be the Son who essentially never has to work a second in his life to just say "you know what Dad. Why don't we just take this 100 million in this account we have that was just going to sit here for generations and just say F it. Lets make the best pinball that has ever been made and go down in history as such. YOLO". Hell they could probably pour more in there. Who knows how much they have already invested. But its fun to think about. If I was that rich and had play money like that I wouldn't worry about the BOM. But who knows. I don't want to act like I know their finances or personal lives cause I have no clue. Only things I have heard and read. Just a fun interesting thing to ponder on. Carry on now.

You think billionaire businessmen/women got their billions by running a business at a loss?

I hear you. Try $14500 here.

OK - that makes sense. I agree with you - pro is always the best price point and will be pretty rock solid price wise.

Think about it this way .IMO Pinball is very small to the vast market of goods bought/sold in the world but to those few entrenched it is a legit market that flows completly with the buyers of NIB pins .The higher prices soar on NIB the more all pins of all eras become .just look at those prices you posted compared to what a well kept pin would sell for today .Bottom line take care of your investments and they’ll take care of you .If your someone that buys NIB n gets bored n sells within a few years your going to lose $ most the time .Keep that same machine for 10 years n maintain it now you’ve at least had fun w a pin for a decade n got your money back .Hard to do unless you can vastly collect but that’s what pincades are for

No. In my initial comment, I answered my own question and said that they wouldn't be running in the red. I was just trying to clear the air. Ask a fun question.

JJP has a history of rewarding early adopters. WOZEC was 6500, the Hobbit Smaug edition was only offered to the pre orders, POTC. Even if POTC get re-ran it will be at an increase. If I had to guess, they have sold over half of the LE’s and are going to capitalize on the remaining units. I am also speculating that they want to move onto their next pin and smaller runs of GNR is more expensive. Just a guess on my part but I see this happen in manufacturing in my industry.

Unfortunately countries outside the USA have to pay overseas freight (obviously), plus import tax (10%+), poor exchange rates (USD 75c = AUD $1), plus domestic freight. For those who beat the price rise we are paying $15.5k (plus domestic freight), and for new orders $16.9k (plus domestic freight). Definitely a considerable investment. I'm sure half of us could pay out our mortgages if we liquidated our collections lol

that's $15.5k AUD/$16.9k AUD.