Quoted from Yesh23:No way they’re close to a 15mm company.
A 15 millimeter company???
26E7E2BC-3366-40C8-A7F7-93EA946B5293.gif(Topic ID: 287178)
Pretty much that solves it for me ever buying a NIB pin. I'll just buy older pins. I just picked up my 1st one a few weeks back for $1300.
$10,500/$1500 = 7 more pinballs for me. Keep the NIB pins I'll take the older ones no problem. My old pins will likely only go up in value and the NIB ones will depreciate as soon as they are bought. Just like an old Winchester they only get better with time.
Roscoe, IL
Quoted from JustinJohnson:Pretty much that solves it for me ever buying a NIB pin. I'll just buy older pins. I just picked up my 1st one a few weeks back for $1300.
$10,500/$1500 = 7 more pinballs for me. Keep the NIB pins I'll take the older ones no problem. My old pins will likely only go up in value and the NIB ones will depreciate as soon as they are bought. Just like an old Winchester they only get better with time.
New here, son? The new ones' value keep going up in many cases, too.
Quoted from mrm_4:A 15 millimeter company???
6DEE9956-AEC5-42D0-8A44-AD3A50C05F2D (resized).jpegQuoted from JustinJohnson:Pretty much that solves it for me ever buying a NIB pin. I'll just buy older pins. I just picked up my 1st one a few weeks back for $1300.
$10,500/$1500 = 7 more pinballs for me. Keep the NIB pins I'll take the older ones no problem. My old pins will likely only go up in value and the NIB ones will depreciate as soon as they are bought. Just like an old Winchester they only get better with time.
Well, they will never be a pre 63 Winchester. I have my dad's 300 h&h and have been offered crazy prices
Bridport
Quoted from Lermods:Read my post: “If you don’t like the price, don’t buy it. If enough people do that, price will fall.” Where does it end? Ask delt31, he claims he has two buyers for his potc close to $20k.
I read it dude. Just a slightly poor take on what is likely some level of price gouging. It's all good, plenty of pins out there at a price I feel more comfortable with.
Worse for Canadians, really a price increase of $1,130 for those that live in Ontario (13% tax added on).
PinballSTAR Customers :
Anyone with a deposit in with PinballSTAR will be paying the same price their order was placed at. JJP is NOT raising pricing to distributors or to customers on existing orders. No need for anyone with an existing order with us to have any concern.
Joe / PinballSTAR Amusements
[email protected]
Quoted from Lermods:I don’t see why there should be uproar about the price increase.
If you don’t like the price, don’t buy it. If enough people do that, price will fall. Or, find one on the secondary market, but even these are going above retail so how can anyone blame jjp.We don’t have all the facts. Jjp knows more about their business and the market than we do.
The first statement is the fact. JJP sees the market and decides to raise the price because they're going for BIG bucks aftermarket.
Do we think suddenly the manufacturing costs were raised for EVERYTHING a cool $1,000 on the nose? Nah.
It's simple: Demand exceeds supply. Let's get another $1,000, because we can.
Here's my question. Are they ARTIFICIALLY controlling the market by holding back manufacturing? You place an order and you have no idea when you'll receive your machine. There's no communication. No expected date. Who's to say they're NOT and this price gouge isn't just "part of the plan"?
I'm disappointed they didn't warn people first. I imagine they would have seen a spike in more orders.
I'm personally happy I didn't find the game/theme appealing to me or I would already have ordered. I guess a fat lesbian Axl is what kept me from buying. Dammit. My concern is I am a huge fan of Toy Story, and I can only imagine that means they're going to be 10.5 now, too.
Quoted from Doctor6:I'm disappointed they didn't warn people first. I imagine they would have seen a spike in more orders.
I'm personally happy I didn't find the game/theme appealing to me or I would already have ordered. I guess a fat lesbian Axl is what kept me from buying. Dammit. My concern is I am a huge fan of Toy Story, and I can only imagine that means they're going to be 10.5 now, too.
.
Quoted from Doctor6:I'm disappointed they didn't warn people first. I imagine they would have seen a spike in more orders.
I think part of the reason for the increase was to slow the orders down. Regardless, prices are getting insane for sure.
Check out German prices.
$15000 for LZ LE.
$15000 for GnR LE ( add another $1000 today ).
They really can't be selling many, can they?
Not sure how I feel about this increase. Maybe these new prices are what they should have been in the beginning. Start high and come down later.....don't go the other way....
Quoted from chuckwurt:[quoted image]
yeah I know, it was a joke. Never mind you dont get it....
Quoted from Huggers:I read it dude. Just a slightly poor take on what is likely some level of price gouging. It's all good, plenty of pins out there at a price I feel more comfortable with.
Balancing supply and demand is not price gouging. Price gouging is when demand sharply exceeds supply, particularly on essential items in an emergency situation, yet you keep raising prices to take advantage. Think of paper products and cleaning supplies last spring. Like you said, there are plenty of other pins out there at a price your are good with. If enough people feel that way, the price won’t hold.
I'll stop spamming this thread and say one last thing. Trends like this are sorta making me want to "nope" myself out of the hobby. I mean, I love pinball, but jesus christ, these prices. I have more fun with my 3000 dollar computer than my 30,000 dollars worth of pinball machines.
Quoted from Lermods:Balancing supply and demand is not price gouging. Price gouging is when demand sharply exceeds supply, particularly on essential items in an emergency situation, yet you keep raising prices to take advantage. Think of paper products and cleaning supplies last spring. Like you said, there are plenty of other pins out there at a price your are good with. If enough people feel that way, the price won’t hold.
Lmao You definitely just googled the definition . I'd say it's a fine line whether this constitutes gouging or not. I think if it was a few hundred quid I'd have been a bit more generous in my assessment but a grand. Jack and chums are having a laugh.
Quoted from Lermods:Balancing supply and demand is not price gouging. Price gouging is when demand sharply exceeds supply, particularly on essential items in an emergency situation, yet you keep raising prices to take advantage. Think of paper products and cleaning supplies last spring. Like you said, there are plenty of other pins out there at a price your are good with. If enough people feel that way, the price won’t hold.
What JJP is doing comes across as price gouging but even if doesn't exactly match the definition what they are doing isn't cool. Nvidia and AMD cannot keep their new GPU's and CPU's in stock, they sell out in seconds when they are available. Has either company raised the price because demand is high? No. Does Apple raise the price of phones that are on backorder? No.
This move by JJP also comes across as price gouging as Wonka LE is still priced at $9500 on their site. JJP didn't raise prices across all of their games but just on the one that is selling the best? Hmmm.
Maybe all those threads thrashing the LZ for being a rip-off did too good of a job? Some JJP execs must have read those threads and agreed, we are selling too cheap. Maybe the GnRLEs selling on pinside NIB for over $9500 also didn’t help?
Just saw on Reddit, they are going for GnR pinball! Holding until SEs are $50k!!
If they do release a topper for the SE and LE, may be a good idea to get in on that early before they decide to jack up the price 
Quoted from mrm_4:yeah I know, it was a joke. Never mind you dont get it....
Not many accounting and finance people in these parts. I mainly posted it for others. I’m sure you didn’t think it was millimeters. Haha
Quoted from PanzerFreak:What JJP is doing comes across as price gouging but even if doesn't exactly match the definition what they are doing isn't cool. Nvidia and AMD cannot keep their new GPU's and CPU's in stock, they sell out in seconds when they are available. Has either company raised the price because demand is high? No. Does Apple raise the price of phones that are on backorder? No.
Except.... yes. At least nvidia products are.
Oops, my bad. It's because of those fucking tarrifs.
Quoted from Lermods:Read my post: “If you don’t like the price, don’t buy it. If enough people do that, price will fall.” Where does it end? Ask delt31, he claims he has two buyers for his potc close to $20k.
POTC is a unique situation since it truly is somewhat limited availability, if there was 5000 of them it wouldn’t be 20k second hand.
Secondly, the only reason GNR is selling above MSRP is due to JJP’s inability to build these and get them out in a reasonable amount of time.
The thing I don’t get about the price hike is the are making 5000 LE’s and Everyone was bragging how they sold like 3-4000 units already. If this is the case and they are honoring all the existing orders, there really aren’t a ton getting the up charge.
Or did they not really sell 3000 or even worse are they not going to honor existing orders at previous price?
This is the first game that had large sales numbers from JJP direct, how about those customers? Honoring price?
It’s a dirt bag move.
Another shake my head moment reading this news. How many times can Jack bastardize his own brand. This is as bad as introducing Ruby Red's while people are still waiting for their Emerald's. Bad business in my opinion. What I really cannot comprehend is the guys willing to buy one for $20,000 and the guys willing to sell theirs for $20,000? It literally blows my mind how someone would want to spend that much on a box of lights.
One good thing is it does suck out a lot of monies from hobbyist and hopefully makes older titles more available and more affordable. Please continue to spend $20,000 on a box of lights-lol Now sell me one of your classics!
Quoted from Hayfarmer:Well, they will never be a pre 63 Winchester. I have my dad's 300 h&h and have been offered crazy prices
It’s “pre 64” Winchesters, but yeah.
After that Winchester cheaped out a bit on parts and model 70s built before that era are highly collectible. They are some of the most collectible and best functioning hunting rifles ever made.
Quoted from PinballSTAR:PinballSTAR Customers :
Anyone with a deposit in with PinballSTAR will be paying the same price their order was placed at. JJP is NOT raising pricing to distributors or to customers on existing orders. No need for anyone with an existing order with us to have any concern.
Joe / PinballSTAR Amusements
[email protected]
This is the post I wanted to see.
Thanks Joe.
Blacktown
I love a good price increase as much as the next guy but after having a think about this one and what’s happening in my work environment alone I’ve come to the conclusion that yes this is probably a valid price increase. I’ve got 2 examples. Electrics cable has gone up 5% on 3 seperate times the past 3 months alone! That’d be increases involved with plastics under short supply and copper price going up. We’ve also had conduit (pastic) gone up 8% and 7% over the past 3 months!! The conduit supplier wouldn’t even hold prices for orders in the system before the new month price rise!
So yes I HATE a price rise but I understand it’s sure as poop not price gouging
Newmarket, ON
Quoted from pinballjah:Worse for Canadians, really a price increase of $1,130 for those that live in Ontario (13% tax added on).
then add exchange 30 % almost 1500 canadian
Quoted from thechakapakuni:Wow so SEs are probably done until LEs are back on the line and they get through the bulk of those. SE see you in 2022
My distributor told me they were doing what’s on the line for SEs and they are discontinuing them
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/
So, rate is roughly 1.4% at the moment.
Compare that to 10.5% on GnR LE 
Quoted from DK:My distributor told me they were doing what’s on the line for SEs and they are discontinuing them
This wouldn’t surprise me one bit. They weren’t selling well at $6750 and they aren’t going to sell at $7750.
Quoted from Audioenslaved:I love a good price increase as much as the next guy but after having a think about this one and what’s happening in my work environment alone I’ve come to the conclusion that yes this is probably a valid price increase. I’ve got 2 examples. Electrics cable has gone up 5% on 3 seperate times the past 3 months alone! That’d be increases involved with plastics under short supply and copper price going up. We’ve also had conduit (pastic) gone up 8% and 7% over the past 3 months!! The conduit supplier wouldn’t even hold prices for orders in the system before the new month price rise!
So yes I HATE a price rise but I understand it’s sure as poop not price gouging
Lot's of things are like that. Lumbar is another. This is a 10% price increase. Sucks but it's not like the price doubled. Funny how everyone seems to think $9500 is perfectly fine but $10500 is just obscene. Tomorrow, $10500 will be ok but $11500 gtfo.
Quoted from Psw757:This wouldn’t surprise me one bit. They weren’t selling well at $6750 and they aren’t going to sell at $7750.
It really is a shill, people have been flipping SE for over $7000 because of supply and demand. Same thing with CE. If JJP could actually produce games in a timely fashion you would not see the desperate pinsiders willing to throw thousands of dollars on top of msrp to have it now and be one of the first. If they shit them out like Stern does, this flipper situation would be different. Why would it be different? Because the market would be flooded and most people would quickly realize that it is not their cup of tea and start dumping them. It is all about supply and demand
Quoted from pinmister:Another shake my head moment reading this news. How many times can Jack bastardize his own brand. This is as bad as introducing Ruby Red's while people are still waiting for their Emerald's. Bad business in my opinion. What I really cannot comprehend is the guys willing to buy one for $20,000 and the guys willing to sell theirs for $20,000? It literally blows my mind how someone would want to spend that much on a box of lights.
One good thing is it does suck out a lot of monies from hobbyist and hopefully makes older titles more available and more affordable. Please continue to spend $20,000 on a box of lights-lol Now sell me one of your classics!
Quoted from Coindork:It’s “pre 64” Winchesters, but yeah.
After that Winchester cheaped out a bit on parts and model 70s built before that era are highly collectible. They are some of the most collectible and best functioning hunting rifles ever made.
Oops fat finger typing
Quoted from DK:My distributor told me they were doing what’s on the line for SEs and they are discontinuing them
Maybe the SEs will be more limited than the CEs?
Quoted from Huggers:Lmao You definitely just googled the definition . I'd say it's a fine line whether this constitutes gouging or not. I think if it was a few hundred quid I'd have been a bit more generous in my assessment but a grand. Jack and chums are having a laugh.
You cant price gouge on a Non-essential product. At the end of the day its a Pinball machine. Nothing more than an amusement device.
Quoted from pinballjah:Maybe the SEs will be more limited than the CEs?
This happened wit POTC.
Quoted from pinballjah:Maybe the SEs will be more limited than the CEs?
The real reason is the SE plays better than the CE 
Quoted from pinmister:The real reason is the SE plays better then the CE
I'm open to a straight trade, any day
Quoted from pinmister:The real reason is the SE plays better then the CE
The SE does shoot well, more my style.
I really don’t understand why they can’t give it a simple upgrade to the full color hot rails. It would sell at $7750 then as it’s one of the main reasons people are jumping up to the LE.
Quoted from pinballjah:I'm open to a straight trade, any day
I’ve considered trading my POTC for a GNR SE and another game.
Quoted from Bud:Man, this hobby is getting out of hand. I make good money and can’t afford these toys at these prices. I’m glad Nintendo switch has tons of games for cheap compared to pinball. I guess I’ll go back to dreaming and seeking used pins again. This is nuts.
yea, it is getting beyond stupid. I thought it was nuts 3 years ago, but this crap is insanely stupid.
Now I’m really curious to see Toy Story and how that unfolds with price structure for that one. So much anticipated toy mechs/features then we may have ever seen in pinball. Wishful thinking of course. Clearly this hike is setting up for new release and will just get worse.
Quoted from woody76:yea, it is getting beyond stupid. I thought it was nuts 3 years ago, but this crap is insanely stupid.
Fucki*% plastic toppers selling for $2500-$3000? WTF
You could buy a decent game for the amount of money people are spending just on flipping toppers!
People want pinball to blow up and be popular-be careful what you wish for I guess?
Quoted from FalconDriver:Now I’m really curious to see Toy Story and how that unfolds with price structure for that one. So much anticipated toy mechs/features then we may have ever seen in pinball. Wishful thinking of course. Clearly this hike is setting up for new release and will just get worse.
If it rises to the level of toys and mechs that POTC has and they actually get some assets to use then I think it will be more than 10500.
Quoted from Psw757:If it rises to the level of toys and mechs that POTC has and they actually get some assets to use then I think it will be more than 10500.
No doubt about it.
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