sounds like JJP is paying market rate like everyone else
(Topic ID: 287178)
Quoted from PtownPin:Good lord....the last thing we need is more unions
Agreed, let's get kids back in the workplace and pay women half. The good old days couldn't come back quicker!
Pittsburgh, PA
Quoted from PtownPin:Good lord....the last thing we need is more unions
What's your experience/feelings with unions?
I've been a member for 17 years. Lots of slugs get paid and fought for the same as I do, but many more good workers are able to survive, and buy pinball games because of our union pay and benefits.
Quoted from Yelobird:So off on So many things with this post sorry. Yeah we need a union in there I want to pay 85,000 for a pinball machine! The application is for someone to put screws in holes rinse and repeat not Code or Design the machine. If your looking to work for a company with philanthropy Start your own company thats a mythical company.
I wonder what coders ARE paid. Under $100K?
Just because you view this as an unskilled position, (a far more skilled line of work than my own at half the rate!) doesn't mean these people shouldn't make actual living wages, which would be north towards $20/hr.
Quoted from Yelobird:If your looking to work for a company with philanthropy Start your own company thats a mythical company.
That's one thing Brett Abess and I actually DO have in common! Neither of us founded a mythical company paying decent wages! Though one of us has the ability very easily to pay higher base wages, one doesn't.
Quoted from flynnibus:my god.. what did you all think line workers make?
It's a 'take them off the street' job for the most part. Even positions in assembly that require training like soldering workers, etc only make very low hourly wages.
"factory worker" has been synonymous with low skill, low hourly wages for a reason.
I thought they made jack shit, and this....confirms it!!!! 
Quoted from PtownPin:why do u say their underpaid? My guess is their paying market rate
Underpaid as in market rate is trash.
Same as it always has been, same as it always will be. Rather than reward immigrants and unskilled labor, "we" profit from them rather tha dare help elevate them.
Brings to mind those bizarre tour videos JJP created last summer, with that young kid that toured with his family, and met Pat Lawlor.
A weird juxtaposition of this being a fantasy world where kids with "ambition" are encouraged, meanwhile the people actually constructing the games can't raise a family on the wage they pay. The America Dream/Illusion baby...!!
Quoted from wesman:Don't you dare break the narrative that wealthy people making a smidge less shouldn't be shouldered by consumers as well as underpaid workers.
Which by the way, minimum wage in NJ is $10 and change, in Illinois it's $8. I'm guessing line workers were paid a couple bucks more before the move.
But.....savings, for the consumers, riiiiiiight???
Come on, man. I could probably pick apart just about every product you buy, pointing out how the person that assembled it is getting paid poorly. What kind of smart phone do you use? We could start there and dig into the living/working conditions of the factory it came from in China.
How about your favorite pair of jeans? The t-shirts you wear on the weekends?
It's a lengthy list.
This whole "bash JJP" or "bash Stern" business practices is a useless exercise. And if you're really concerned about it, posting about it here is a complete waste of time.
Yes, a wealthy guy has control of JJP. Yes, JJP has a factory where workers start at a minimum wage (or slightly more). I'm sure a lot of those employees are thankful to have jobs. And if they don't like it, they are free to leave and find employment elsewhere.
The whole root of this anger is crazy... a non-essential $9.5K toy went up in price to $10.5K. Think about those two facts for a moment. This is totally meaningless in the scheme of life. It's just a pinball machine.
It is a little funny that Pinside is all upset about a price increase, and at the same time complaining that the workers are not paid enough. If the workers got paid more, we'd just get more price increases.
It's the same with people who complain that McDonald's workers don't get paid "a living wage", and then complain about the high price of a Big Mac.
Quoted from 27dnast:Come on, man. I could probably pick apart just about every product you buy, pointing out how the person that assembled it is getting paid poorly. What kind of smart phone do you use? We could start there and dig into the living/working condition of the factory it came from in China.
How about your favorite pair of jeans? The t-shirts you wear on the weekends?
It's a lengthy list.
This whole "bash JJP" or "bash Stern" business practices is a useless exercise. And if you're really concerned about it, posting about it here is a complete waste of time.
Yes, a wealthy guy has control of JJP. Yes, JJP has a factory where workers start at a minimum wage (or slightly more). I'm sure a lot of those employees are thankful to have jobs. And if they don't like it, they are free to leave and find employment elsewhere.
The whole root of this anger is crazy... a non-essential $9.5K toy went up in price to $10.5K. Think about those two facts for a moment. This is totally meaningless in the scheme of life. It's just a pinball machine.
Correct! My clothing is made by slave labor in other countries.
I'll never debate that the entire system isn't fucked, and that we ourselves don't benefit from it!
The key difference as I stated earlier in this thread, is that while I may earn a pay rate of 100 or 1000 times the lowest globally paid workers, my wealth does not exceed the levels of the wealthiest, that have 100,000 times or more my earnings.
Levels the top of the food chain, and maybe the underlying mass percentage of the populace ALL benefits.
Quoted from wesman:The key difference as I stated earlier in this thread, is that while I may earn a pay rate of 100 or 1000 times the lowest globally paid workers, my wealth does not exceed the levels of the wealthiest, that have 100,000 times or more my earnings.
And what does this have to do with a pinball manufacturer?
When the robots take over, all the low paid folks will be clamoring for these not-so-great-paying jobs. Not saying it's "right", but it's inevitable. Self driving cars/trucks will hurt good paying trucker gigs.
Apple could EASILY build iPhones largely with robots. Instead, they decided to do it with hoards of Chinese workers (who could then aspire to purchase their products).
Quoted from wesman:Just because you view this as an unskilled position, (a far more skilled line of work than my own at half the rate!) doesn't mean these people shouldn't make actual living wages, which would be north towards $20/hr.
ok, so if you want to have a living wage argument... can you take it somewhere else? This isn't a JJP topic when they are pretty much in line with the industry.
Quoted from 27dnast:And what does this have to do with a pinball manufacturer?
Quoted from flynnibus:ok, so if you want to have a living wage argument... can you take it somewhere else? This isn't a JJP topic when they are pretty much in line with the industry.
The entire subject is regarding a price increase.
The post earlier today clearly shows that while a price increase has occurred, wages are still at the same shitty level. Entirely relevant.
Sorry Flynn, that my large swathes of text are taking away from your own large swathes of text. 
Quoted from jawjaw:If your standard for a decent wage is whether you can afford a $10000 toy I think your standards are off.
Not accurate.
If JJP has a similar 30% employee discount that Stern has, the formerly priced $6750 GnR SE could come in at around $4500-$4600. That's entirely a possible purchase for an employee if they made $20/hr or so within 2 years. Would be nice to have incentives also as an employee, to get you closer to a purchase, if so inclined.
Crazy ideas here, I know. Especially given that most in this thread seem to feel profit should be distributed solely amongst higher up's versus the company as a whole or allowing value to pass towards the *gasp* customer.
Quoted from Tranquilize:Agreed, let's get kids back in the workplace and pay women half. The good old days couldn't come back quicker!
WTF are you talking about?
Quoted from wesman:What's your experience/feelings with unions?
Extensive, and I will say that some trades make perfect sense (roads, infrastructure, etc)....and many others are over priced for what u get (building trades)....As an example u can build a home with market rate skilled labor and it costs you $100/ sq ft or u can hire a union shop and build the same house for $150 sq ft..... I know who I'd hire
Quoted from TheLaw:This is dipping into Cornelius style madness
My man Wesman has an ax to grind. And he's grinding it, believe you me!!!!
Quoted from TheLaw:This is dipping into Cornelius style madness
Let’s not lose our heads here.
Quoted from Dkjimbo:With the insanity of the market, the real money at stern and JJP is for employees to buy games at their steep discounts and quietly sell them at market prices.
DO they get big discounts? One of the jokes we used to make in my factory days was that we were building things we couldn't afford to buy.
Chilliwack, BC
Quoted from Zablon:DO they get big discounts? One of the jokes we used to make in my factory days was that we were building things we couldn't afford to buy.
I never understood this logic, what does working in a factory have to do with being able to buy the product. Is everyone that works at Boeing supposed to be able to buy their own jet? Also is everyone working in a sweat shop supposed to be happy because they can afford a T-shirt?
Quoted from Darscot:I never understood this logic, what does working in a factory have to do with being able to buy the product. Is everyone that works at Boeing supposed to be able to buy their own jet? Also is everyone working in a sweat shop supposed to be happy because they can afford a T-shirt?
Making household products is not the same as making a airliner. Also, those people probably make more money. I don't assume people who build tanker ships plan to buy them.
Quoted from Darscot:I never understood this logic, what does working in a factory have to do with being able to buy the product. Is everyone that works at Boeing supposed to be able to buy their own jet? Also is everyone working in a sweat shop supposed to be happy because they can afford a T-shirt?
Not a crazy idea/incentive for an employee to think they can afford that which they make, and ideally take pride in making. Product accessibility also has to help employees feel valued.
The auto industry clearly utilizes this for more sales and brand loyalty. I'd have to imagine 40 years or so ago, that the discount was even more substantial.
Quoted from wesman:Not a crazy idea/incentive for an employee to think they can afford that which they make, and ideally take pride in making. Product accessibility also has to help employees feel valued.
The auto industry clearly utilizes this for more sales and brand loyalty. I'd have to imagine 40 years or so ago, that the discount was even more substantial.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna8473401
I don't even need to click that link to know it would go to the pure marketing of employee pricing for domestic automobiles. You too can buy a Ford for the same price as an employee, that's because the employee discount is just BS they used to fool the unions into thinking they are getting something.
$14per hour is barely a 30k salary which is under $2000 per month after taxes. A 30% discount on a stern premium would get it to a $2340 discount off MSRP. sell it for 400-500 under MSRP (and just undercut a dealer at that price) and you effectively double your monthly income....
Quoted from Darscot:I don't even need to click that link to know it would go to the pure marketing of employee pricing for domestic automobiles. You too can buy a Ford for the same price as an employee, that's because the employee discount is just BS they used to fool the unions into thinking they are getting something.
Yeah, the article is shit. I wish I could find details for what non marketing discounts are like, or what discounts might have been when the American Auto industry was strong and vibrant.
Well....I hate to admit but I caved and ordered a game at the new price. I see no titles that appeal to me coming out in the future and I have a hole in my lineup. I have been assured that the price increase was due to the increased prices JJP was getting from suppliers who blame it all on covid. But anyhow I got over my butthurt after about 24 hours.
I still say Stern will raise their prices to match and refuse to buy a new Stern game anyway over their constant quality and coding issues on new games. So I might as well buy G&R since I have played it and like it very much. So I cannot bitch about JJP anymore but will reserve my right to complain about Stern whenever the proper time arises lol.
Quoted from playernumber4:Well....I hate to admit but I caved and ordered a game at the new price. I see no titles that appeal to me coming out in the future and I have a hole in my lineup. I have been assured that the price increase was due to the increased prices JJP was getting from suppliers who blame it all on covid. But anyhow I got over my butthurt after about 24 hours.
I still say Stern will raise their prices to match and refuse to buy a new Stern game anyway over their constant quality and coding issues on new games. So I might as well buy G&R since I have played it and like it very much. So I cannot bitch about JJP anymore but will reserve my right to complain about Stern whenever the proper time arises lol.
4ze435.jpgQuoted from snaroff:I guess any warm body gets $13.50 and someone with prior pinball building experience gets $14.00?
what happens to those who are overqualified?
Quoted from Jaybird815:Minimum wage in Cook County is $12/hr, where they are located
Lol , when I read that , this is the first thing I thought of . I would love to get over to Chicago and play the dick head tourist and get my photo taken in front of all the BB landmarks .
IMG_20210225_213015 (resized).jpgQuoted from Thunderbird:Hobbits have definitely gone for much lower than 30% here. Even Pinball sales was closing them out at much lower prices.
Quoted from Thunderbird:Hope for you that prices are up when you get ready to sell.
I sold my Hobbit today . I've had it for over 3 years and got 1k more than what I paid for it .
I'm really sad to see it go but it's only way I could get GNR .
I didn't even advertise it , I just mentioned to a couple people I was thinking about selling it , before you know it , I had a couple offers .
Used game prices are going mental here , like everywhere else . 39k for POTC ce , 24k for Tron le , 21k for Metallica le , 16k for scared stiff , to name a few .
Even with the price rise at $16,850 , GNR nib , seems like good value to me , compared to what is on offer out there .
Quoted from playernumber4:Well....I hate to admit but I caved and ordered a game at the new price. I see no titles that appeal to me coming out in the future and I have a hole in my lineup. I have been assured that the price increase was due to the increased prices JJP was getting from suppliers who blame it all on covid. But anyhow I got over my butthurt after about 24 hours.
I still say Stern will raise their prices to match and refuse to buy a new Stern game anyway over their constant quality and coding issues on new games. So I might as well buy G&R since I have played it and like it very much. So I cannot bitch about JJP anymore but will reserve my right to complain about Stern whenever the proper time arises lol.
Here, here! I just ordered one also at the price increase and it made me sad only for a short time. That's two more GnRs coming to Michigan!
Quoted from screaminr:Lol , when I read that , this is the first thing I thought of . I would love to get over to Chicago and play the dick head tourist and get my photo taken in front of all the BB landmarks .
[quoted image]
The town I live in borders both Joliet and Elwood,IL. I drive past this gas station almost everyday. It’s about 40ft in the air.
ECCE76E4-2F0F-4C65-B1ED-18FF25085ED3 (resized).pngQuoted from screaminr:Used game prices are going mental here , like everywhere else . 39k for POTC ce , 24k for Tron le , 21k for Metallica le , 16k for scared stiff , to name a few .
Even with the price rise at $16,850 , GNR nib , seems like good value to me , compared to what is on offer out there .
Where are you getting those prices? I have not seen anything like that. You can do the math any which way but $16850 is way too much for any pin imo. I think a lot of people are going to get burned in the future thinking that just because all these other pins go for a lot then any new pin will go for a lot, too.
Quoted from jawjaw:Where are you getting those prices? I have not seen anything like that. You can do the math any which way but $16850 is way too much for any pin imo. I think a lot of people are going to get burned in the future thinking that just because all these other pins go for a lot then any new pin will go for a lot, too.
Those prices are in Australian dollars
been moderated.. Looks like pinside is leaning towards Facebook and twitter... free speech is dead, at no time did I mention politics or religion. Cancel culture full effect..Good luck America! PM me if you want to see the post, cheers to the good people standing up to this B.S!
Quoted from Lamberger:been moderated.. Looks like pinside is leaning towards Facebook and twitter... free speech is dead, at no time did I mention politics or religion. Cancel culture full effect..Good luck America! PM me if you want to see the post, cheers to the good people!
Can you please moderate this embarrassment of a post. If it was meant to be sarcastic and funny it failed. Dude you went full Karen, pathetic.
Quoted from Lamberger:been moderated.. Looks like pinside is leaning towards Facebook and twitter... free speech is dead, at no time did I mention politics or religion. Cancel culture full effect..Good luck America! PM me if you want to see the post, cheers to the good people standing up to this B.S!
This seems like an appropriate time for this evergreen XKCD comic...
Source: https://xkcd.com/1357/
free_speech_2x.pngQuoted from Darscot:Can you please moderate this embarrassment of a post. If it was meant to be sarcastic and funny it failed. Dude you went full Karen, pathetic.
I must be white, right! wrong!! Wow, the main street media really got a hold of you guys... keep believing.
Quoted from Lamberger:I must be white, right! wrong!!
What are you on about. First if your Canadian you should know we don’t even have Freedom of Speech. We have freedom of expression and it sure as fuck does not apply to talking shit online. Ranting ignorance and nonsense is not helping.
Quoted from Darscot:What are you on about. First if your Canadian you should know we don’t even have Freedom of Speech. We have freedom of expression and it sure as fuck does not apply to talking shit online. Ranting ignorance and nonsense is not helping.
Ok, your the embarrassment... Don't you have some sort of ... Never mind, stay in your basement, Mommy will get you GnR next Christmas.
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