(Topic ID: 287178)

GnR price increased by $1k?!?


By pinpin8990

27 days ago



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    There are 1492 posts in this topic. You are on page 26 of 30.
    #1251 8 days ago

    I agree with the sentiments shared that no one was hurt here. That's good. If JJP jacked pricing on existing orders...that would be bad business.

    JJP is making a business decision to create profit and increase shareholder value. Whether that's by making an extra $1k per machine on new orders, or to lock in existing buyers because of perceived positive equity...who knows the real business case logic....

    ...But either way...generating returns is their job....to serve their investors with an ROI. Investors don't pump money into hobbies or passion projects unless they're doing philanthropy work. Right or wrong....just a fact.

    It's our job as consumers to vote with our wallets. I did. I bought a game at the original pricing. At the time I placed the order, I perceived the value to be fair. Would I buy at the new price? Not sure...maybe. If the housing and stock markets weren't near all time highs...would my perception of value be different? Maybe.

    In a rising market in a free market economy... where demand outpaces supply... prices will rise. As has been stated repeatedly.

    New home builders do it all the time. And it can go both ways. Up or down...if the demand drops and supply rises....manufacturers can and will drop price and those who bought at the top will now compete on price with the builder/manufacturer when it's time to sell.

    Good times....

    #1252 8 days ago
    Quoted from usandthem:

    Edit: Posted in the wrong thread like a dumbass.

    Whatever. I thought it was a good post!

    #1253 8 days ago
    Quoted from Dkjimbo:

    I hate to say it but I fear for what happens for JJP with this one. Toy story is a really bad pinball theme. There won’t be anywhere near the demand like they have now with GNR and part of the GNR hype train was the light show innovations which won’t feel as new or WOW factor on any subsequent releases.

    If you're right, then JJP keeps cranking out more GNRs. Not much harm in following a hot seller with a riskier theme.

    #1254 7 days ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    I'm not saying that everyone is going to see a price increase as a positive. Heck, I bet exactly 0% of customers see it as a positive.

    Better make that at least 1% .
    I'm stoked my game has gone up by $1360 .
    Now my wife thinks I know what I'm doing

    #1255 7 days ago
    Quoted from screaminr:

    Better make that at least 1% .
    I'm stoked my game has gone up by $1360 .
    Now my wife thinks I know what I'm doing

    LOL. I probably worded that wrong, but you make a good point

    #1256 7 days ago
    Quoted from PinHigh1:

    I agree with the sentiments shared that no one was hurt here.

    I guess that really depends on what your definition of "hurt" is. There's plenty of people (myself included) who may not necessarily have had a down-payment placed on a game, but were potentially saving money to buy a game in the near future. Imagine their reaction when they are now presented with the fact that they'll have to pony up another $1000. It stings. And it's annoying.

    Some folks will be priced right out of the market and choose not to buy games now due to the new price model. If JJP is trying to maximize sales, that's going to hurt.

    But if they're trying either maximize profit or winnow sales due to supply chain and production limitations, well, they've achieved their objective. But I'm not sure the long-term effects are worth the short-term gains.

    Time will tell whether or not the market will bear these changes or not.

    #1257 7 days ago
    Quoted from PinHigh1:

    ...But either way...generating returns is their job....to serve their investors with an ROI. Investors don't pump money into hobbies or passion projects unless they're doing philanthropy work. Right or wrong....just a fact.

    I think you need to do a bit more reading on the formation and backing of JJP.

    #1258 7 days ago
    Quoted from smalltownguy2:

    I guess that really depends on what your definition of "hurt" is. There's plenty of people (myself included) who may not necessarily have had a down-payment placed on a game, but were potentially saving money to buy a game in the near future. Imagine their reaction when they are now presented with the fact that they'll have to pony up another $1000. It stings. And it's annoying.
    Some folks will be priced right out of the market and choose not to buy games now due to the new price model. If JJP is trying to maximize sales, that's going to hurt.
    But if they're trying either maximize profit or winnow sales due to supply chain and production limitations, well, they've achieved their objective. But I'm not sure the long-term effects are worth the short-term gains.
    Time will tell whether or not the market will bear these changes or not.

    Fair point...price increases do suck from a consumer perspective. So HUO vs NIB might be the better consumer decision if NIB is too high to justify.

    #1259 7 days ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    I think you need to do a bit more reading on the formation and backing of JJP.

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    I think you need to do a bit more reading on the formation and backing of JJP.

    Im always open to being wrong and remaining teachable.

    I read this...is there more backstory to the backers that I'm missing? I understand these investors are familiar with pinball...but it's always smart to invest in things you understand. And like. Its still investing with purpose of ROI. Maybe I'm missing something...investing is investing.

    https://www.jerseyjackpinball.com/thinklab-ventures-leads-new-investment-in-jersey-jack-pinball/

    #1260 7 days ago
    Quoted from PinHigh1:

    Im always open to being wrong and remaining teachable.
    I read this...is there more backstory to the backers that I'm missing? I understand these investors are familiar with pinball...but it's always smart to invest in things you understand. And like. Its still investing with purpose of ROI. Maybe I'm missing something...investing is investing.
    https://www.jerseyjackpinball.com/thinklab-ventures-leads-new-investment-in-jersey-jack-pinball/

    “ Abess gained national notoriety in 2008 when he sold his company, City National Bank of Florida, for $945 million and gave his staff a bonus of $60 million to share among themselves. As a result, he is a Time 100 honoree and Reader’s Digest’s America’s Best Boss. He is also a fervent pinball machine enthusiast.“

    #1261 7 days ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    “ Abess gained national notoriety in 2008 when he sold his company, City National Bank of Florida, for $945 million and gave his staff a bonus of $60 million to share among themselves. As a result, he is a Time 100 honoree and Reader’s Digest’s America’s Best Boss. He is also a fervent pinball machine enthusiast.“

    I did read that. Sounds like a high integrity leader and businessman that likes pinball and takes care of his people. I like this guy!

    Presumably he still expects a return on his investment in JJP? Maybe not...details of the investment/transaction were not disclosed so no one will really know. But good on him nonetheless. I wish JJP much success - competition is good for the consumer.

    #1262 7 days ago
    Quoted from PinHigh1:

    Sounds like a high integrity leader and businessman that likes pinball and takes care of his people. I like this guy!

    When shows start up again. If you see him at a show. Take the time to meet him. Well worth a visit with him.

    LTG : )

    #1263 7 days ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    When shows start up again. If you see him at a show. Take the time to meet him. Well worth a visit with him.
    LTG : )

    I sure will...I enjoy meeting down to earth and approachable business people....and that they also like pinball is a real bonusX!

    #1264 7 days ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    When shows start up again. If you see him at a show. Take the time to meet him. Well worth a visit with him.
    LTG : )

    Pretty sure he won't be there due the 2nd job he had to get. So many cancelled orders these days!!!

    #1265 7 days ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    I think you need to do a bit more reading on the formation and backing of JJP.

    Sure, but this is clearly a business investment. If it were philanthropy based....a price reduction might occur.

    Two other men were a part of that buy in as well, Scott Flanders and Andrew Paul. Both of those guys seem to have vast business experience and have been able to make brands/investments flourish.

    #1266 7 days ago
    Quoted from PinHigh1:

    Im always open to being wrong and remaining teachable.
    I read this...is there more backstory to the backers that I'm missing? I understand these investors are familiar with pinball...but it's always smart to invest in things you understand. And like. Its still investing with purpose of ROI. Maybe I'm missing something...investing is investing.
    https://www.jerseyjackpinball.com/thinklab-ventures-leads-new-investment-in-jersey-jack-pinball/

    Jersey Jack was started as a passion project - the idea that they could build a business by building what was seen as an underserved market. A business started with a passion and goals to be 'the best' - not with ideals of ROI as the priority or that this was the best way to make money. It wasn't a 'ROI first' mindset that created the company, nor that steered it.

    There is a reason the joke stands... how to become a millionaire making pinball... start by being a billionaire.

    When Jack took on new investors, again these people were motivated by their passion for the product - not strictly by business first or ROI. They were long time customers who took the opportunity to save JJP and morph it into what they think it should be. It's been six years and they've just done another huge capital investment in the business. This isn't ROI first thinking. These are passion lead projects people are trying to make into working businesses.

    You can't just run around with 'businesses exist only to make money' mantra... or 'they aren't a charity' arguments. When you use extremes that are not representative of the reality that there is ground --besides-- those polar extremes... the argument is bound to fail.

    #1267 7 days ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Jersey Jack was started as a passion project - the idea that they could build a business by building what was seen as an underserved market. A business started with a passion and goals to be 'the best' - not with ideals of ROI as the priority or that this was the best way to make money. It wasn't a 'ROI first' mindset that created the company, nor that steered it.
    There is a reason the joke stands... Oh how to become a millionaire making pinball... start by being a billionaire.
    When Jack took on new investors, again these people were motivated by their passion for the product - not strictly by business first or ROI. They were long time customers who took the opportunity to save JJP and morph it into what they think it should be. It's been six years and they've just done another huge capital investment in the business. This isn't ROI first thinking. These are passion lead projects people are trying to make into working businesses.
    You can't just run around with 'businesses exist only to make money' mantra... or 'they aren't a charity' arguments. All arguments fail when you use extremes that are not representative of the reality that there is ground besides those polar extremes.

    There is certainly middle ground....

    My comment was to speculate (and agree with others) on why the $1k price increase. Profits is my opinion and I don't hate them for it either, but you're saying it's because they love pinball?? Or a little of both?

    It appears you may know Jack and these other investors personally and have inside knowledge of their motivations here. I will admit, I do not know these people.

    So why did they increase the price by $1k?

    #1268 7 days ago
    Quoted from PinHigh1:

    So why did they increase the price by $1k?

    Because they have a hot product in a market with lots of disposable income. Even with the increase, I'm sure their margins aren't that impressive.

    #1269 7 days ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    Because they have a hot product in a market with lots of disposable income. Even with the increase, I'm sure their margins aren't that impressive.

    Exactly my opinion...for more profits. And I surely don't blame them for it...or hold it against them. I can only control my actions...as a consumer...to buy it or not.

    #1270 7 days ago

    “Accept certain inalienable truths
    Prices will rise, politicians will philander, you too, will get old
    And when you do, you'll fantasize that when you were young
    Prices were reasonable, politicians were noble
    And children respected their elders“

    -Baz Luhrmann

    #1271 7 days ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    I still wouldn't pay $1400 for JD.

    i paid 7k Aud for a home use only in the last 12 mths ,,,, ill go sit in the corner

    #1272 6 days ago

    I hope the line workers receive some of the $1000 increase. They are getting crumbs.

    JJP (resized).JPG
    #1273 6 days ago

    Has there been any discussion of the price increase possibly being because the playfield manufacturer told JJP if you want non chipping playfields they need more money for higher quality chemicals and more money for the extra labor thats involved with the extra steps to create better playfields?

    10
    #1274 6 days ago
    Quoted from mr9865:

    I hope the line workers receive some of the $1000 increase. They are getting crumbs.[quoted image]

    They run 20 hour shifts?!? Haha.

    #1275 6 days ago

    $13.50-$14.00 per hour...wtf? $0.50 spread? I guess any warm body gets $13.50 and someone with prior pinball building experience gets $14.00?

    How idiotic can companies possibly be?

    #1276 6 days ago
    Quoted from mr9865:

    I hope the line workers receive some of the $1000 increase. They are getting crumbs.[quoted image]

    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    They run 20 hour shifts?!? Haha.

    Damn. Going for the two day work week approach.

    #1277 6 days ago

    They say it's bad to buy a car built on a Friday...

    You have to hope that you don't get a machine built during hour 19 of their 20 hour shift.

    #1278 6 days ago
    Quoted from mbeardsley:

    They say it's bad to buy a car built on a Friday...
    You have to hope that you don't get a machine built during hour 19 of their 20 hour shift.

    No worries...

    giphy.gif
    #1279 6 days ago
    Quoted from mr9865:

    I hope the line workers receive some of the $1000 increase. They are getting crumbs.[quoted image]

    That's awful. This is why unions need to exist.

    So much for that philanthropy idea some people have here.

    I was wondering what the pay rates were. Good find! And frankly, this is decently skilled labor.

    I don't expect every employee at Ferrari to be able to buy one, but man....these people surely have no chance to buy a game, if they so desired.

    #1280 6 days ago

    That has to be wrong. Are you legally able to work a 20 hour shift?

    There is no way.

    #1281 6 days ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    I don't expect every employee at Ferrari to be able to buy one, but man....these people surely have no chance to buy a game...

    Luckily they will be able to play the machines on location at some point.

    #1282 6 days ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    That's awful. This is why unions need to exist.
    So much for that philanthropy idea some people have here.
    I was wondering what the pay rates were. Good find! And frankly, this is decently skilled labor.
    I don't expect every employee at Ferrari to be able to buy one, but man....these people surely have no chance to buy a game, if they so desired.

    Good lord....the last thing we need is more unions

    #1283 6 days ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    That's awful. This is why unions need to exist.
    So much for that philanthropy idea some people have here.
    I was wondering what the pay rates were. Good find! And frankly, this is decently skilled labor.
    I don't expect every employee at Ferrari to be able to buy one, but man....these people surely have no chance to buy a game, if they so desired.

    Awful? It's far more than minimum wage. How much should they get paid then? It sounds like basic work where just about anyone can do it with minimum training. It's not like you need a college degree or years of experience. If your standard for a decent wage is whether you can afford a $10000 toy I think your standards are off.

    #1284 6 days ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    Awful? It's far more than minimum wage. How much should they get paid then?

    Looked like righteous bucks to me

    -1
    #1285 6 days ago

    Looks like 20 hour work days are legal if properly paid (overtime/double time) and the proper breaks are given. So maybe it is true. Not sure I’d want that, but maybe working 3-4 of these a week can work for some.

    11
    #1286 6 days ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Looks like 20 hour work days are legal if properly paid (overtime/double time) and the proper breaks are given. So maybe it is true. Not sure I’d want that, but maybe working 3-4 of these a week can work for some.

    7am to 3pm is a 8 hour day. I'm sure 3am is a typo.

    -1
    #1287 6 days ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    That's awful. This is why unions need to exist.
    So much for that philanthropy idea some people have here.
    I was wondering what the pay rates were. Good find! And frankly, this is decently skilled labor.
    I don't expect every employee at Ferrari to be able to buy one, but man....these people surely have no chance to buy a game, if they so desired.

    So off on So many things with this post sorry. Yeah we need a union in there I want to pay 85,000 for a pinball machine! The application is for someone to put screws in holes rinse and repeat not Code or Design the machine. If your looking to work for a company with philanthropy Start your own company thats a mythical company.

    -1
    #1288 6 days ago
    Quoted from mr9865:

    7am to 3pm is a 8 hour day. I'm sure 3am is a typo.

    I agree. Just shocked that a 20 hour work day is actually legal, assuming Google is correct.

    #1289 6 days ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    I agree. Just shocked that a 20 hour work day is actually legal, assuming Google is correct.

    Fire/police/medical and all important jobs to society, like pinball assembly, often work 20+ hour shifts

    #1290 6 days ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Fire/police/medical and all important jobs to society, like pinball assembly, often work 20+ hour shifts

    Yeah good point, but they are asleep for some of that too.

    #1291 6 days ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    ...but they are asleep for some of that too.

    *insert PF quality jokes here*

    -1
    #1292 6 days ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    I agree. Just shocked that a 20 hour work day is actually legal, assuming Google is correct.

    Common sense would imply there are two shifts and one can choose the schedule that works for them.

    #1293 6 days ago

    Food for thought: if they paid the line workers 3 dollars more per hour (so 16.5-17) the price per game would cost 95.58 more to assemble. Per Google "At both Jersey Jack and its competitor, Stern, workers take up to 30 hours to assemble a single machine." 30*3 =90 + 6.2% social security tax 5.58 = 95.58. I know simple math but just an example. So no, it would not increase the price of the game to $85,000.

    Quoted from Yelobird:

    Yeah we need a union in there I want to pay 85,000 for a pinball machine!

    -3
    #1294 6 days ago
    Quoted from mr9865:

    Food for thought: if they paid the line workers 3 dollars more per hour (so 16.5-17) the price per game would cost 95.58 more to assemble. Per Google "At both Jersey Jack and its competitor, Stern, workers take up to 30 hours to assemble a single machine." 30*3 =90 + 6.2% social security tax 5.58 = 95.58. I know simple math but just an example. So no, it would not increase the price of the game to $85,000.

    Don't you dare break the narrative that wealthy people making a smidge less shouldn't be shouldered by consumers as well as underpaid workers.

    Which by the way, minimum wage in NJ is $10 and change, in Illinois it's $8. I'm guessing line workers were paid a couple bucks more before the move.

    But.....savings, for the consumers, riiiiiiight???

    #1295 6 days ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    Don't you dare break the narrative that wealthy people making a smidge less shouldn't be shouldered by consumers as well as underpaid workers.
    Which by the way, minimum wage in NJ is $10 and change, in Illinois it's $8. I'm guessing line workers were paid a couple bucks more before the move.
    But.....savings, for the consumers, riiiiiiight???

    why do u say their underpaid? My guess is their paying market rate

    #1296 6 days ago
    Quoted from mr9865:

    7am to 3pm is a 8 hour day. I'm sure 3am is a typo.

    Now you haters put down the pitchforks and torches!

    #1297 6 days ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    Don't you dare break the narrative that wealthy people making a smidge less shouldn't be shouldered by consumers as well as underpaid workers.
    Which by the way, minimum wage in NJ is $10 and change, in Illinois it's $8. I'm guessing line workers were paid a couple bucks more before the move.
    But.....savings, for the consumers, riiiiiiight???

    Minimum wage in Cook County is $12/hr, where they are located

    #1298 6 days ago
    Quoted from Jaybird815:

    Minimum wage in Cook County is $12/hr, where they are located

    Sounds like they're getting minimum wage then.

    https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/new-minimum-wage-rates-continue-to-take-effect-beginning-in-2021/2396562/

    "Before the increases over past year, the state's minimum wage rate was $8.25 and $13 in Cook County, containing Chicago. Currently, Chicago's minimum wage is $13.50 per hour for "small employers" and $14 for "large employers."

    #1299 6 days ago

    my god.. what did you all think line workers make?

    It's a 'take them off the street' job for the most part. Even positions in assembly that require training like soldering workers, etc only make very low hourly wages.

    "factory worker" has been synonymous with low skill, low hourly wages for a reason.

    #1300 6 days ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    Sounds like they're getting minimum wage then.
    https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/new-minimum-wage-rates-continue-to-take-effect-beginning-in-2021/2396562/
    "Before the increases over past year, the state's minimum wage rate was $8.25 and $13 in Cook County, containing Chicago. Currently, Chicago's minimum wage is $13.50 per hour for "small employers" and $14 for "large employers."

    The city of Chicago is going to $15/hr this year I believe, JJP is just outside city limits.

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