(Topic ID: 287178)

GnR price increased by $1k?!?

By pinpin8990

3 years ago


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    There are 1,507 posts in this topic. You are on page 22 of 31.
    #1051 3 years ago

    You guys over there are paying $10500 for the LE. On the current exchange rates that equates to $13530 Aussie smackers. I ask my self then why are we being charged $16580 for the same privilege.....hmmm...gouge much.
    Hark, is that prince I can hear singing “cream”

    11
    #1052 3 years ago

    Can kids afford to buy Toy Story ....... lol
    I echo above, zero interest level.

    #1053 3 years ago
    Quoted from Freddykaboodle:

    You guys over there are paying $10500 for the LE. On the current exchange rates that equates to $13530 Aussie smackers. I ask my self then why are we being charged $16580 for the same privilege.....hmmm...gouge much.
    Hark, is that prince I can hear singing “cream”

    What about GST and shipping?

    #1054 3 years ago
    Quoted from Freddykaboodle:

    You guys over there are paying $10500 for the LE. On the current exchange rates that equates to $13530 Aussie smackers. I ask my self then why are we being charged $16580 for the same privilege.....hmmm...gouge much.
    Hark, is that prince I can hear singing “cream”

    The $10500 USA price doesn’t include sales tax or shipping.

    Not justifying the Aussie price - but you forgot about International freight, customs charges, ag charges, road freight, and GST. They don’t just magically appear in Melbourne.

    rd

    #1055 3 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    The $10500 USA price doesn’t include sales tax or shipping.
    Your quoted $13530 (USD) Aussie price includes shipping to Aussie from the states and GST. GST alone (10%?) equates to 1200-1300 bucks.
    Not justifying the price - but you forgot about that stuff. They don’t just magically appear in Melbourne.
    rd

    And then there’s overhead and volume to consider. If a distributor outside of the States has to cover all their expenses from a smaller client base, prices have to be increased.

    #1056 3 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    The $10500 USA price doesn’t include sales tax or shipping.
    Not justifying the Aussie price - but you forgot about International freight, customs charges, ag charges, road freight, and GST. They don’t just magically appear in Melbourne.
    rd

    And we thought us Canadians had it bad.. I have to pay our American friends to drive it over the boarder and deliver it Tax free... Only down side is the Dollar, thankfully I bought a ton at par last time Barry was in charge, looking forward to buying a ton more with old Joe at the helm.

    #1057 3 years ago
    Quoted from Sako-TRG:

    Can kids afford to buy Toy Story ....... lol
    I echo above, zero interest level.

    This kid can, grail theme

    #1058 3 years ago
    Quoted from Chambahz:

    In my situation, Bosch wasn't able to provide the units to the distributor in time. There were unexpected delays due to massive unanticipated demand. Big factories can't always adjust to produce unanticipated demand

    So this doesn't negate your ability to forecast - it extends delivery targets. The argument being discussed was the idea that they can't forecast. Forecast is their production output and schedule. Demand would change deliveries, but wouldn't intrinsically screw their forecast. Their production schedule is bound by their manufacturing ability and their supply chain.

    Quoted from Chambahz:

    JJP can't just hire twice as many people and have access to twice as much operating space simply because they have twice as many orders to fulfill

    That's why plants like these rely on contractor labor companies - so yes.. they can literally dial up the knob and say "we need 20 more workers starting next week for the next 10 weeks". It obviously takes time to train people, and not aspects scale the same, there is inertia in all this, but again... you're confusing the idea of 'delivery targets' with what was being discussed - forecasting production. When you have such sustained demand that your forecast looks like it will be insufficient, you look to decide if increasing production is the right choice for you. When you face supply chain uncertainty - you work to mitigate those risks. You don't just throw up your hands and say "no one knows... check back in 6 months".

    Let's not forget... GNR was released FOUR MONTHS ago. If someone hasn't started adapting or planning how to address this 'unprecedented demand' -- something is F'd.

    JJP knows internally what their production schedule looks like and they know their risk elements. Unreliable performance is a given in this environment, but that's why people make changes to how they function to try to lessen the probability or scale of that impact. Again, this isn't June 2020 anymore.. you have to adapt, not just 'blame covid'. Mitigations include things like increasing buffers in inventory to minimize risk of starvation, alternate sources, changing order lead times, switching shipping methods, stockpiling, sequencing... Just saying... This is what the professionals are paid to do. This kind of stuff happens all the time in non-covid world too. This is why these people have jobs

    #1059 3 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    So this doesn't negate your ability to forecast - it extends delivery targets. The argument being discussed was the idea that they can't forecast. Forecast is their production output and schedule. Demand would change deliveries, but wouldn't intrinsically screw their forecast. Their production schedule is bound by their manufacturing ability and their supply chain.

    That's why plants like these rely on contractor labor companies - so yes.. they can literally dial up the knob and say "we need 20 more workers starting next week for the next 10 weeks". It obviously takes time to train people, and not aspects scale the same, there is inertia in all this, but again... you're confusing the idea of 'delivery targets' with what was being discussed - forecasting production. When you have such sustained demand that your forecast looks like it will be insufficient, you look to decide if increasing production is the right choice for you. When you face supply chain uncertainty - you work to mitigate those risks. You don't just throw up your hands and say "no one knows... check back in 6 months".
    Let's not forget... GNR was released FOUR MONTHS ago. If someone hasn't started adapting or planning how to address this 'unprecedented demand' -- something is F'd.
    JJP knows internally what their production schedule looks like and they know their risk elements. Unreliable performance is a given in this environment, but that's why people make changes to how they function to try to lessen the probability or scale of that impact. Again, this isn't June 2020 anymore.. you have to adapt, not just 'blame covid'. Mitigations include things like increasing buffers in inventory to minimize risk of starvation, alternate sources, changing order lead times, switching shipping methods, stockpiling, sequencing... Just saying... This is what the professionals are paid to do. This kind of stuff happens all the time in non-covid world too. This is why these people have jobs

    Very informative, thanks for sharing!
    So I guess they ARE just being dicks. : )
    Either that or companies this size don’t have paid staff members with the experience required to forecast like you have exampled. Let’s not forget the size and management limitations of Stern and JJP. If they had staff members with training able to predict the effects of Covid, and were able to evolve quickly, they’d probably have to charge even more for games.
    These are (in my opinion) small manufacturing companies that we’re dealing with. Companies that continue to struggle with simple recurring play field issues that shouldn’t still be problems. (Hopefully resolved, but only recently)

    Still, the whole concept or adapting, as you have explained, is pretty interesting.
    I truly wonder how capable Stern and JJP are when it comes to stuff like this. Even Stern right now has back orders so it would appear that JJP is not alone in this regard.

    #1060 3 years ago

    Spoke to my distributor and they are so pissed at JJP. Apparently Jack has no control now. They effed them over twice with the CE and now the LE. He had 272 Canadian clients looking to buy at $9500. waiting till production caught up. That's a staggering loss for a Distributor, they are seriously thinking about dropping JJP all together. Good news for Stern I guess. This is wild!

    #1061 3 years ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    GNR was a very unique product since they had all the assets, which is unheard of.

    You mean like Batman 66?

    #1062 3 years ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    You mean like Batman 66?

    Did all the real actors in Batman do custom call outs for the game?

    #1063 3 years ago
    Quoted from Lamberger:

    He had 272 Canadian clients looking to buy at $9500. waiting till production caught up.

    Not sure I understand. They had 272 "Potential" clients Looking (window shopping) to buy. How did JJP eff them over? They didn't Loose any sales as they didn't have them sold?

    #1064 3 years ago
    Quoted from Yelobird:

    Not sure I understand. They had 272 "Potential" clients Looking (window shopping) to buy. How did JJP eff them over? They didn't Loose any sales as they didn't have them sold?

    I'll ask him next time I see him but that was all he said... I was in and out for parts.

    #1065 3 years ago
    Quoted from Yelobird:

    Not sure I understand. They had 272 "Potential" clients Looking (window shopping) to buy. How did JJP eff them over? They didn't Loose any sales as they didn't have them sold?

    Asking the real questions, here.

    Were ALL those 272 not on the preorder list already at the original price?
    Are ALL those 272 people out over $1000?

    #1066 3 years ago
    Quoted from Lamberger:

    Spoke to my distributor and they are so pissed at JJP. Apparently Jack has no control now. They effed them over twice with the CE and now the LE. He had 272 Canadian clients looking to buy at $9500. waiting till production caught up. That's a staggering loss for a Distributor, they are seriously thinking about dropping JJP all together. Good news for Stern. This is wild!

    Why would he be pissed? If those were games he already had on order than JJP is honoring the original price. Sounds like he's making shit up

    #1067 3 years ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    Why would he be pissed? If those were games he already had on order than JJP is honoring the original price. Sounds like he's making shit up

    All hearsay.

    Sounds like an interested list? And with no deposit those definitely wouldn't sell at $9500.

    #1068 3 years ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    Why would he be pissed? If those were games he already had on order than JJP is honoring the original price. Sounds like he's making shit up

    I don't think so, he's not that kind of guy. No matter how you look at it, at $16,000 Cad now from the price increase... The distributors are gonna lose sales when they need them the most.

    #1069 3 years ago

    Lamburger would be right except *I* know of another Canadian distributor who has sold 256 preorder spots for GNR with the new pricing structure.

    No matter how you look at it, that more than makes up for the "Lamburger Loss" in this market. JJP prevails!

    #1070 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Lamburger would be right except *I* know of another Canadian distributor who has sold 256 preorder spots for GNR with the new pricing structure.
    No matter how you look at it, that more than makes up for the "Lamburger Loss" in this market. JJP prevails!

    How can I be right when I'm just repeating. Lol. No skin in the game here. Was never in nor out, just fascinated.. watching from a distance. I guess JJP didn't piss any distributor's or buyers off with CE or LE... I probably miss understood him with the mask n all. Haha!

    #1071 3 years ago
    Quoted from Lamberger:

    I don't think so, he's not that kind of guy. No matter how you look at it, at $16,000 Cad now from the price increase... The distributors are gonna lose sales when they need them the most.

    sounds like he had a list of interested parties....very different than having actual sales....

    #1072 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Lamburger would be right except *I* know of another Canadian distributor who has sold 256 preorder spots for GNR with the new pricing structure.
    No matter how you look at it, that more than makes up for the "Lamburger Loss" in this market. JJP prevails!

    If this is true, I will truly never get my game.

    #1073 3 years ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    sounds like he had a list of interested parties....very different than having actual sales....

    Your probably right, I have a bunch buddy's that wanted one but didn't want it coming during covid and winter, waiting for spring/summer to order.

    Quoted from RobT:

    If this is true, I will truly never get my game.

    No doubt, if there are a lot of new buyers.. Good luck getting a game anytime soon, they'll probably give your K back if you complain.

    #1074 3 years ago
    Quoted from Chambahz:

    Very informative, thanks for sharing!
    So I guess they ARE just being dicks. : )
    Either that or companies this size don’t have paid staff members with the experience required to forecast like you have exampled. Let’s not forget the size and management limitations of Stern and JJP. If they had staff members with training able to predict the effects of Covid, and were able to evolve quickly, they’d probably have to charge even more for games.

    Nah - it's just not the part of the company we as hobbyist think about. The face of the company is the 'stars'... Gomez, designers, etc. We think about how many games they will design... because we think from the perspective of the consumer.. what will they have that I will want to buy.. will I buy more, etc.

    But in their building they are a factory. Shipping a product is how they make money - not designing a product. Invoicing is the only thing that generates money. So when they think about how much money they will be making... the accountant doesn't say "well how many new games will you design?", he knows how many units can you ship is what constrains you. You can oversell all day long, but you can't recognize the money until you invoice. You can't invoice till you ship. You need development to generate demand... but it's shipping product that actually brings money in the door. Manufacturing can't generate demand on its own, but it can very much limit you.. and the numbers guys know that.

    That's why in the old days the line was king.. games bent to it's demands. Everything is about keeping the manufacturing lines churning - because not only is it this big expensive overhead.. it's actually what generates revenue. It's why Gary Stern has said 'we are a manufacturing company that also designs pinballs' (paraphrasing.. I don't have the exact quote handy).

    It's the difference between a design studio and a manufacturer. Our community just doesn't have that perspective... because it's not what we as consumers think as.. we think in terms of what we consume. We don't care if Stern ships 100 pieces a day or 50.. as long as when we buy one, we get it. The business leaders that run the business tho... they very much have that different perspective.

    Companies like Stern have real buyers, production managers, supply chain managers, etc. These are very much regular roles in established operations of these scales. It's just the side of the business hobbyists don't think about.

    Now obviously when it comes to 'how they react' to these situations - it very much is dependent on what the business is willing to do and prioritize. Are they willing to invest in more inventory? Are they willing to front more orders? Are they willing to change how they ship? Will they pay different rates to bring on another supplier, will they increase their labor spend, etc etc etc.

    It's just as likely situations where they 'there are ways, but we can't afford to do that...' or are not willing to do so.. as there are scenarios where there are single chokepoints they can't get resolved without long term investment... so they continue to live with that hanging over them. But all throughout that, they are still working their models to ensure they have the stock on hand when its needed, the labor and facilities, and their expected productivity to try to ensure they are hitting a target.

    JJP isn't flying blind - we can't say we know what their priorities are and what they are willing to invest in - but it's not because there is nothing that can be done. It's about what they chose to do. And right now, they either just are not, or don't feel confident enough in their ability to share delivery estimates. And that is not a good thing.

    10
    #1075 3 years ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    Did all the real actors in Batman do custom call outs for the game?

    Batman and Robin (Adam West and Burt Ward) did. With one exception the other major actors were dead at the time which would have made custom call outs difficult. But Stern had the use of audio and video from every episode (with only a few scenes excepted).

    I understand what Slash did with GnR and it’s impressive. But BM66 still wins the “best use of licensed assets” for a pinball in the LCD era.

    #1076 3 years ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    Batman and Robin (Adam West and Burt Ward) did. With one exception the other major actors were dead at the time which would have made custom call outs difficult. But Stern had the use of audio and video from every episode (with only a few scenes excepted).
    I understand what Slash did with GnR and it’s impressive. But BM66 still wins the “best use of licensed assets” for a pinball in the LCD era.

    R&M gotta be in the frame as well.

    #1077 3 years ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    Batman and Robin (Adam West and Burt Ward) did. With one exception the other major actors were dead at the time which would have made custom call outs difficult. But Stern had the use of audio and video from every episode (with only a few scenes excepted).
    I understand what Slash did with GnR and it’s impressive. But BM66 still wins the “best use of licensed assets” for a pinball in the LCD era.

    Always loved that Adam West even did Custom customer call outs for the SLE BM games. Way to use all the assets. Sadly I think that game was his last contribution before passing. Love that game.

    #1078 3 years ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    Batman and Robin (Adam West and Burt Ward) did. With one exception the other major actors were dead at the time which would have made custom call outs difficult. But Stern had the use of audio and video from every episode (with only a few scenes excepted).
    I understand what Slash did with GnR and it’s impressive. But BM66 still wins the “best use of licensed assets” for a pinball in the LCD era.

    I disagree - I think the writing and performance of R&M takes the cake.

    BM66 has a great vibe because of the show and it retains that feel - but it's not necessarily great Pinball+Batman. It's just great Batman.
    GNR has great concert assets and of course the music - but the callouts and voice work is not mind blowing.. IMO

    #1079 3 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    I disagree - I think the writing and performance of R&M takes the cake.
    BM66 has a great vibe because of the show and it retains that feel - but it's not necessarily great Pinball+Batman. It's just great Batman.
    GNR has great concert assets and of course the music - but the callouts and voice work is not mind blowing.. IMO

    There are so many clips/footage from Batman and GnR compared to R&M though, and only having Justin Roiland, as much as he DID do, and missing 3/5's of the family still lessons variety in voicework as well as mode play.

    #1080 3 years ago

    People that are into R&M love R&M. I’ve never seen a single episode. I played that pin several times and not a fan (probably cuz I didn’t get it not seeing the show) I can see why people would like it tho. I wasn’t fully into another Comic pin coming out but AIQ was very impressive. I also wasn’t excited about another GNR coming out this late in their career, but this one set the bar. So much it will be my first NIB

    #1081 3 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    I disagree - I think the writing and performance of R&M takes the cake.
    BM66 has a great vibe because of the show and it retains that feel - but it's not necessarily great Pinball+Batman. It's just great Batman.
    GNR has great concert assets and of course the music - but the callouts and voice work is not mind blowing.. IMO

    I think the call outs are awesome....

    #1082 3 years ago
    Quoted from Chambahz:

    I expect that they're not giving guaranteed delivery dates simply because they know they can't.

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    And right now, they either just are not, or don't feel confident enough in their ability to share delivery estimates.

    Well I'm glad I was finally able to convince you to see the light!
    : )

    #1083 3 years ago
    Quoted from Sako-TRG:

    Can kids afford to buy Toy Story ....... lol
    I echo above, zero interest level.

    Well I'm only guessing, but you might not be the right age for it. I'm in my 30's and can vividly remember being a 9-year-old when the first Toy Story came out. Was blown away by the CGI and by how fully-realized the world of the movie was. Plus, toys! And I've enjoyed the sequels that have come since to various degrees. Toy Story is definitely not a for-kids-only property, like say TeleTubbies.

    So yeah, I'm interested because I do enjoy the theme for many reasons, I bet JJP could put a lot of toys and mechs into it that would tie into the IP, and also because Toy Story would be a theme that would hit better with my 8yo daughter than any of my recent pin purchases.

    So last time I checked I'm not a kid, and I can afford to buy a JJP if I want to.

    #1084 3 years ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    So last time I checked I'm not a kid, and I can afford to buy a JJP if I want to.

    Don’t worry, if you play pinball like the rest of us, you’re still a kid just with double digit years of experience

    #1085 3 years ago

    If they nail all the licensed assets of Toy Story, it will be really hard to resist. It could be so so good.

    23
    #1086 3 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    If they nail all the licensed assets of Toy Story, it will be really hard to resist.

    At $10,500 USD, I have no problems resisting buying any pinball machine.

    I’ll leave them all for you guys. Enjoy!

    rd

    #1087 3 years ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    You mean like Batman 66?

    IMO BM66, EHOH and GNR have show us what can happen when the license holder is all in and all assets are available.

    Edit: I forgot to in R&M...I haven’t had a chance to play it yet.

    #1088 3 years ago
    Quoted from BigT:

    IMO BM66, EHOH and GNR have show us what can happen when the license holder is all in and all assets are available.
    Edit: I forgot to in R&M...I haven’t had a chance to play it yet.

    Completely agree! Owning a license is important, negotiating all the assets makes it a winner.

    #1089 3 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    At $10,500 USD, I have no problems resisting buying any pinball machine.
    I’ll leave them all for you guys. Enjoy!
    rd

    With the equity you have built up, you’d never have to pay a dime for a new game ever again.

    -7
    #1090 3 years ago
    Quoted from BigT:

    IMO BM66, EHOH and GNR have show us what can happen when the license holder is all in and all assets are available.
    Edit: I forgot to in R&M...I haven’t had a chance to play it yet.

    Alien as well... Can't wait to get that beast. Biggest bang for buck right now.

    15
    #1091 3 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    With the equity you have built up, you’d never have to pay a dime for a new game ever again.

    That would presume I want to sell some of my existing games to get new ones.

    I don’t, really. We play all the old ones all the time. Plus we use them for big tournaments.

    I’ve bought NIB games since 2010, the novelty wears off. Trust me.

    With GNRLE being at least $18,000 NZD here, I would have to sell say my minty restored WCS, CFTBL and say DR WHO to pay for it.

    Call me stupid ... but I would rather have my minty WCS, CFTBL and Dr Who than 1x GnR.

    rd

    #1092 3 years ago

    I wouldn't say stupid at all.

    #1093 3 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    That would presume I want to sell some of my existing games to get new ones.
    I don’t, really. We play all the old ones all the time. Plus we use them for big tournaments.
    I’ve bought NIB games since 2010, the novelty wears off. Trust me.
    With GNRLE being at least $18,000 NZD here, I would have to sell say my minty restored WCS, CFTBL and say DR WHO to pay for it.
    Call me stupid ... but I would rather have my minty WCS, CFTBL and Dr Who than 1x GnR.
    rd

    All fair points. I’m a big tournament guy too, but I’m not running 400-500 person tournaments so I would have about 10-15 spots at least that would be rotators to allow for the latest and greatest to come and go to keep things fresh.

    #1094 3 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    All fair points. I’m a big tournament guy too, but I’m not running 400-500 person tournaments so I would have about 10-15 spots at least that would be rotators to allow for the latest and greatest to come and go to keep things fresh.

    We can’t muster 500 people here lol

    But we do get 70-100 people for my tournaments. Most ever was 104. Remembering that NZs population size is similar to the state of Kentuckys.

    Most pinball people visit my place a few times a year, there’s always 100+ pins to play, so there’s always “something fresh” that they haven’t played before.

    rd

    #1095 3 years ago

    First - if anyone thinks that a $1000 price increase is to just cover costs you are in the twilight zone. This is a well executed (and I dare say planned from the start price hike, car manufacturers with hot models have done the same). Get more orders than you can cope with, say you are doing your best, generate demand for the old price and keeping people on board by creating a new price the has no demand therefore locking in existing buyers and increasing satisfaction by saying you are doing them a favour! The guy who runs the company now is no idiot!

    Quoted from Lamberger:

    How can I be right when I'm just repeating. Lol. No skin in the game here. Was never in nor out, just fascinated.. watching from a distance. I guess JJP didn't piss any distributor's or buyers off with CE or LE... I probably miss understood him with the mask n all. Haha!

    If you aren't in you are out dood.

    Quoted from Lamberger:

    Alien as well... Can't wait to get that beast. Biggest bang for buck right now.

    No not really, its got some assets, the ones from the "trailer" but its worse than Ghostbusters for repetitiveness and its made with stolen money and IP. The game itself has super uninspiring shots. We have had an original in our club for past couple of years it's not a hugely played game, it was to start with but not any more.

    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    All fair points. I’m a big tournament guy too, but I’m not running 400-500 person tournaments so I would have about 10-15 spots at least that would be rotators to allow for the latest and greatest to come and go to keep things fresh.

    We have a similar situation in the UK which is a small market;

    I ordered a GNR LE at the old price, at the new price I'm out, not because I can't afford it but purely because I just do not see the value in a pinball machine thats more than 10K, same as I don't see value in a mobile phone more than 1K or a car more than 100K (although the latter never use to be the case ). In Europe the feedback I'm getting is that NIB sales have slowed significantly driven by the EU tariff and I would expect JJP to have lost orders as in the EU you can't have non-refundable deposits.

    Neil.

    -1
    #1096 3 years ago

    -

    #1097 3 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    Remembering that NZs population size is similar to the state of Kentuckys.

    Ah, New Zealand, the Kentucky of the Southern Hemisphere!

    #1098 3 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Ah, New Zealand, the Kentucky of the Southern Hemisphere!

    We probably drink half the bourbon they make ...

    rd

    18
    #1099 3 years ago

    I am really pissed. I have been too busy with life and making some cash to afford the new GR. Hence I have not been on the forum for a couple weeks. So I just sold $3000 worth of Glocks today for the final money I needed to buy my game. I came to the site tonight to see what distributor to go with and I am rewarded with the news of the price increase.
    I was one of the early adopters who gave JJP the money for WOZ so that he could start his company. We waited 2 1/2 years for our games. And he thanked us with a promise for discount on future games. Well...that never happened. I have always been one of his biggest supporters and all I get for it is an enlarged asshole with new hemorrhoids.
    Thanks for nothing Jack. I'm done with you.

    #1100 3 years ago

    ask him for your discount now ? lets see if Jack steps up ! I'm sure there are JJP people monitoring this site and thread

    There are 1,507 posts in this topic. You are on page 22 of 31.

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