I love my Stern LEs. Fun beasts that they are.
AlienLE is the only pin that comes close
And it’s a distant second place
Stern sells “fun”. Gary said it. Because they won’t/can’t compete on the JJP experience level
Anyone that bought this game at whatever price will be happy!
Quoted from Chuckwebster:I based the number on what it costs today. I paid 9k (technically a little less) for LZLE including shipping. If i were to order a GNR it would be 10.5k plus $300 shipping. total difference in price is $1800 which is 20% of 9k
yea well they were basically the same price if u ordered at the same time....I get LZ is a little cheaper....it shows for what u get although I like their music
Quoted from zaphX:Are you on Scorbit, Iceman?
What’s that?
Quoted from Pinball69:What’s 1k to you big ballas? Stop complaining and buy it.
I’m a big balla.
But only in my trousers.
rd
Quoted from beelzeboob:Not one of them has left mine...
Well I’m happy for you!
Quoted from 27dnast:Joe Balser is a thief? That’s news to me, do tell
come on... don't be obtuse.
You know that Houdini was original a game used by JPOP to rip off your fellow pinheads.
I really don't care if Joe came in and fixed the game to make it ready for production.
It's a bad-blood game designed by a Thief.
Splitting hairs doesn't change the fact that American Pinball started off by throwing their lot in with that Thief. They'll never be "Right with me" because of it.
I wanted to like Hot Wheels or Octoberfest; but again... I haven't trusted American Pinball with my money because of their first game. One day; maybe they'll do a title I have to have at a reasonable price; then maybe I'll get over the first game. So far; they haven't.
Quoted from romulusx:Will I’m happy for you!
I don't think his name is Will.
Quoted from Zitt:come on... don't be obtuse.
You know that Houdini was original a game used by JPOP to rip off your fellow pinheads.
I really don't care if Joe came in and fixed the game to make it ready for production.
It's a bad-blood game designed by a Thief.
Splitting hairs doesn't change the fact that American Pinball started off by throwing their lot in with that Thief. They'll never be "Right with me" because of it.
I wanted to like Hot Wheels or Octoberfest; but again... I haven't trusted American Pinball with my money because of their first game. One day; maybe they'll do a title I have to have at a reasonable price; then maybe I'll get over the first game. So far; they haven't.
They didn’t use JPOPs design. As far as I can tell, Houdini is open IP... anyone can use it. It’s not like they paid JPOP for Houdini. They didn’t use JPOP’s art, either. It was their game from the ground up and they sold it at a fair price without requiring preorders.
Not being obtuse. It’s just the facts.
API is a solid company that provides great customer service, excellent build, and they actually deliver games. If you’re missing out on that, your loss.
Yeah Zitt, I usually can see where you’re coming from but that’s a weird take.
If anything AP tried to fix the Magic Girl situation before ultimately realizing it was too deep a hole and escaping alive to salvage what they could... I mean maybe you know something I don’t but I think AP and Balcer is clean here.
Next thing we know JJP is offering a $15k signature edition with a piece of a couch Slash sat on at JJP during his visit
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Next thing we know JJP is offering a $15k signature edition with a piece of a couch Slash sat on at JJP during his visit
...and screaming yellow legs and side rails?? 
Quoted from Straight_Flush:I was saving for a SE, finally Jack made a pin that I felt was affordable. Then he goes and raises his price 1k? Keep your pin jack. Hot wheels is a bargain @ 6300 free topper,side blades,shaker motor.
Exactly
Quoted from Mrawesome44:I can give you a couple good reasons people may not have gone in at first.
1.Playfield issues.
2.The huge backlog
3.No timeline for when people will receive games
JJP seem to love shooting themselves in the foot. This is just another situation where the backlash could have been avoided.
And this too !
Quoted from NoQuarters:And this too !
People might also be balancing the money they DO have, versus going into or deeper into debt. For me, I felt this game was an option, LE wise, but maybe a year or so down the road.
I assumed it was a big success, and would be made for at least a year or more. I did not assume this, 4 months post reveal.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:New official sales pitch
"Do you want a GNR LE for $9,500? Not in this lifetime".
I also kinda thought about this last night...
For new orders at $1K higher, couldn't they at least toss in a couple of exclusive molded new toys? Maybe cost them an extra $100, and the increase could be rationalized by some.
I mean, at least try.....
I would love to see how the sale numbers are affected by the price increase. I would expect them to drop to nothing for a month or so, but will they keep selling at 10,500.00 two months from now. I feel like im being squeesed buy a cash grab or someone who is flipping a game to make a fast buck. The bottom line Is i will feel ripped off by JJP if I were to buy one now for 10500. It real sucks that I couldent buy one now even though the game is awesome due to the way it just rubs me wrong. If I buy one from a flipper I know its just someone takeing a chance to make a easy buck, but to feel that the manafacture is sticking it to me just makes me not want to buy anything from them :{
Quoted from wesman:That's the thing, isn't it? It's a combination of both as I see it. We can be accountable, accept our faults in decision making, correct them, move forward with knowledge and make more empowered decisions, no matter what the stage.
But there are also inevitable factors, forces beyond our control, that impact and influence our lives in ways that we are so utterly powerless to alter.
One change I will definitely make, is crossing JJP off my list for NIB purchases. As an owner of two of their 6 games, that kinda sucks, but financial comfort + defining my own principles in this matter, makes a more contented me.
Well said Sir.
Quoted from Crumbalimb:I would love to see how the sale numbers are affected by the price increase. I would expect them to drop to nothing for a month or so, but will they keep selling at 10,500.00 two months from now. I feel like im being squeesed buy a cash grab or someone who is flipping a game to make a fast buck. The bottom line Is i will feel ripped off by JJP if I were to buy one now for 10500. It real sucks that I couldent buy one now even though the game is awesome due to the way it just rubs me wrong. If I buy one from a flipper I know its just someone takeing a chance to make a easy buck, but to feel that the manafacture is sticking it to me just makes me not want to buy anything from them :{
My guess is they came to a grinding halt, and if the next title is priced at the same rate the sales won't be nearly as high as GNR.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Next thing we know JJP is offering a $15k signature edition with a piece of a couch Slash sat on at JJP during his visit
Again I gotta ask: Where is our PanzerFreak and what have you done with him????
Quoted from underlord:Well said Sir.
Thank you!
I just don't feel any human can overcome adversity to any degree. There are always walls, clicks, things that hold us in place. We can try, and try, and try, but sometimes we only have so much power.
Control is something we rarely ever have in life. It's okay to admit that.
Quoted from 27dnast:They didn’t use JPOPs design. As far as I can tell, Houdini is open IP... anyone can use it. It’s not like they paid JPOP for Houdini. They didn’t use JPOP’s art, either. It was their game from the ground up and they sold it at a fair price without requiring preorders.
Sorry; I disagree. Look at the layout of the "demo" playfield... and the production machine.
The layout is too similar - maybe some minor adjustments to address bad geometry.
JPOP did get a salary for a while under AP... until they figured out he was a hack.
Look; I get it... you wanna like your games. It's your right to stick your head in the sand or choose to ignore it.
It's also my right to voice my concerns about them taking a bad-blood game and make it a reality.
Very similar to Pinball Brothers trying Alien. DeepRott doing Zombie game from ?JPOP?. Now all someone needs to do is Predator.
Simply put; I have zero faith in companies copying an infamous game to try and profit. Leave a bad taste in my mouth. You don't have to agree; but it is a concern for some of us.
Quoted from Zitt:Sorry; I disagree. Look at the layout of the "demo" playfield... and the production machine.
The layout is too similar - maybe some minor adjustments to address bad geometry.
JPOP did get a salary for a while under AP... until they figured out he was a hack.
Look; I get it... you wanna like your games. It's your right to stick your head in the sand or choose to ignore it.
It's also my right to voice my concerns about them taking a bad-blood game and make it a reality.
Very similar to Pinball Brothers trying Alien. DeepRott doing Zombie game from ?JPOP?. Now all someone needs to do is Predator.
Simply put; I have zero faith in companies copying an infamous game to try and profit. Leave a bad taste in my mouth. You don't have to agree; but it is a concern for some of us.
Different cabinet design, different playfield design, different board system, different lighting system, different art, all-original code, all-original sound. Sold without pre-order money and distributors were instructed not to take deposits. It was manufactured. It actually works... and it continues to receive solid support to this very day.
It's a completely different game.
As Ben Heck, who knows more about the backstory of this than you or I, said: "John's Houdini wasn't a game. Shots to nowhere, targets in places you couldn't hit, static laser cut "toys" that did nothing. It was a proof of concept built like a final product whose only goal was to trick a company into bailing out Magic Girl."
Boy, did I really have perfect timing. One night, two weeks ago, I posted in a local sale thread asking if anyone had a GNR SE for sale or trade. Didn't really care about the game, just wanted to play it for a few months and then move it along.
A local Pinsider had one he bought while waiting for his LE. We arranged a straight trade for one of my pins and then a few days later JJP jacked up the price. Perfect timing for me because I would not have been interested in trading for a $7800 GNR which would've cost more than I paid for Wonka and Dialed In.
Also sounds like the Standard Edition is going to be the real "limited" edition too. Game is really fast and fun, jaw dropping light shows, nice open stage area that I am having fun modding and now working on a pretty sweet topper for it.
Quoted from PtownPin:No, but its a stupid comment.....like yourself he's probably still bitter he blew his wad on an LZ LE
Just got word LZ price might be dropping, Stern needs box room for the next pin. Lmao!
Quoted from Lamberger:Just got word LZ price might be dropping, Stern needs box room for the next pin. Lmao!
Man, you really keep trying, don't you?
Quoted from beelzeboob:Man, you really keep trying, don't you?
Might go in on a pro with the future price drop( home pin price), a buddy is making the 4th ramp for fun... Change the back Glass art and bury it in the line up so you don't see the bugs bunny art..Dump the call outs! Donsky!! Got myself a Jukebox. 
Quoted from PoMC:Also sounds like the Standard Edition is going to be the real "limited" edition too.
Nope, the "Back Stage" addition will be. 
I like Jack but I can't help but to poke some fun..
Quoted from beelzeboob:Man, you really keep trying, don't you?
Hes just so lonely,, 
Quoted from Hayfarmer:Hes just so lonely,,
Like, who IS this guy? Never heard of him before. It's just the dullest schtick imaginable.
Was he grown in some Canadian lab hellbent on creating the ultimate Stern Hater?
Is there ANYBODY on either team of this Hatfield and McCoys drama who doesn't think he should dial it down about 500 percent?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Like, who IS this guy? Never heard of him before. It's just the dullest schtick imaginable.
Was he grown in some Canadian lab hellbent on creating the ultimate Stern Hater?
Is there ANYBODY on either team of this Hatfield and McCoys drama who doesn't think he should dial it down about 500 percent?
Lol, come on now.. I caved and said I'll buy the LZpro with the below tweaks. Everyone here wants it as is? Cool. To each there own.
"a buddy is making the 4th ramp for fun... Change the back Glass art and bury it in the line up so I don't see the bugs bunny art.. Delete the call outs. Donsky!!" I'll have myself the Led Zeppelin pin that I always wanted.
The Australian distributor in their infinite wisdom have now raised the price of the LE overnight to $16850. Should be lined up against the wall and shot with a ball of their own shit...
I was about to pay a deposit and order one, but now I’m out and will wait and buy one second hand...good way to keep customers or obtain new ones.
Quoted from Freddykaboodle:The Australian distributor in their infinite wisdom have now raised the price of the LE overnight to $16850. Should be lined up against the wall and shot with a ball of their own shit...
Easy pass. Better stuff available
Quoted from Hayfarmer:Easy pass. Better stuff available
Not sure theres better stuff out there, but maybe more value for your buck on the used market? That being said Australian pin prices are crazy. Its a wonder they sell any pins
Oh. There's always something better, no matter what you're looking for. Wasnt a knock on gnr, just the pricing
Quoted from Freddykaboodle:The Australian distributor in their infinite wisdom have now raised the price of the LE overnight to $16850. Should be lined up against the wall and shot with a ball of their own shit...
I was about to pay a deposit and order one, but now I’m out and will wait and buy one second hand...good way to keep customers or obtain new ones.
i dont see his options JJP raise his cost by 1k US thats about 1350$ AUD no way he could absorb that ,,, im in no way an apologist for Paul i was one of many
that was dangled a carrot of the hope of an delivery b4 xmas ,, yep im a mug , but there was many of us and i think ill be lucky to see mine b4 mid year
Yeah a visible cueing would be nice. If I knew mine was coming in June with certainty I’d be fine, but people are guessing June. That’s just bad communication and customer service from JJP regardless of the price hike
Quoted from Lamberger:Donsky!!"
its like he lives in his own little world by himself, he even says words I have never heard. Anyone think they raised the price just to slow down the backlog to stay on schedule for their next game announcement?
Quoted from Freddykaboodle:Should be lined up against the wall and shot with a ball of their own shit...
I was about to pay a deposit and order one, but now I’m out and will wait and buy one second hand...good way to keep customers or obtain new ones.
Settle down mate , jjp put up their prices , Paul had no choice .
Good luck finding a HUO cheaper , no one is going to sell their's for less than what they payed , unless they're desperate for cash .
Quoted from john17a:i was one of many
that was dangled a carrot of the hope of an delivery b4 xmas ,, yep im a mug , but there was many of us and i think ill be lucky to see mine b4 mid year
Paul has been totally upfront with me about the wait . He's filling up containers and shipping them as fast as JJP can make them .
Jjp hasn't given reliable wait times to any of their distributors , there are still day 1 orders to be filled .
Paul is a great guy . I mentioned I had some issues with my Hobbit , he gave me some parts and when they didn't work , he came over and fixed it for free . He didn't even sell me the game .
I'm more than happy to do business with him .
Quoted from Charliew65:its like he lives in his own little world by himself, he even says words I have never heard. Anyone think they raised the price just to slow down the backlog to stay on schedule for their next game announcement?
i think they raised prices so that people who placed orders won't bail out. Waiting 6 months to a year is going to be tough with so many other options that will be available sooner. A 1k penalty will be tough to swallow for anyone who does bail out and wants back in later.
Quoted from screaminr:Settle down mate , jjp put up their prices , Paul had no choice .
Good luck finding a HUO cheaper , no one is going to sell their's for less than what they payed , unless they're desperate for cash .Paul has been totally upfront with me about the wait . He's filling up containers and shipping them as fast as JJP can make them .
Jjp hasn't given reliable wait times to any of their distributors , there are still day 1 orders to be filled .
Paul is a great guy . I mentioned I had some issues with my Hobbit , he gave me some parts and when they didn't work , he came over and fixed it for free . He didn't even sell me the game .
I'm more than happy to do business with him .
Well i know dam well what my discussion was when i put a deposit down and know plenty of people who have stated the same that was what happened or do you pretend that you where on another line listening in and want to say what ive printed is a lie
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